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Hudak and Mammo Back Emery Village BIA

The subway vs. LRT debate moves to Mammoliti's ward.

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Finch bus; photo by {a href=”http://www.flickr.com/photos/ashtonpal/4577922071/”}AshtonPal{/a} from the {a href=”http://www.flickr.com/groups/torontoist/”}Torontoit Flickr Pool{/a}.

“Gridlock” was Tim Hudak’s word of the day as the Ontario PC leader joined councillors Doug Ford and Giorgio Mammoliti to talk up subways during a small press conference at the office of the Emery Village Business Improvement Area early this afternoon.

The meeting was ostensibly held in support of the BIA’s freshly rescinded support of a Finch Avenue LRT. Only, members of the BIA didn’t get to do much talking.

“I think we’ve got a responsibility as a provincial government to help break gridlock,” said Hudak, who would repeat the word no fewer than three times during his roughly six minute address. “Money’s on the table. It’s the biggest investment in Canada. So let’s do it right. Let’s invest in subways.”

When asked about how exactly such a subway plan—while serving all proposed routes—would be financed, however, Hudak was unable to provide an alternative funding model, and he rejected any suggestion that the province should spend more than the $8.4 billion it has already promised Toronto for transit projects.

Local councillor Giorgio Mammoliti (Ward 7, York West), who also serves on the BIA’s board, rehashed his ongoing claim that excessive spending on the part of the TTC is to blame for financial shortages, contending that the costs of subway developments in other world cities are far lower than projected costs locally. He suggested the TTC “take [its] tailpipes, put it between [its] legs, and walk away.”

He then went on to say that the people of his ward would sooner wait 50 years for a subway development, and have no alternative transit built in the meantime, than have an LRT built now. “Most people believe that we should not be rushing public transportation,” said Mammoliti. “It should be well thought-out, it should be well-financed, and it’s not going to gouge the taxpayers.”

BIA chair Lorraine Chabot-Vecera did not support Mammoliti’s hard line subway-or-nothing approach, but did say, “I think that consulting with our membership is going to be what’s going to give us the best option for them.”

The BIA originally backed the LRT proposal: “the community response was unanimous in support of the new LRT system,” enthuses their 2008 newsletter [PDF] describing a community meeting dedicated to discussing it. Today, Chabot-Vecera insisted: “We didn’t really change our stance. At the time it was the only option given us, was to have LRTs. But now we have other options available to us, and we’d like to have the best option available to our membership.”

“We need consultation. We need to see the plans,” said BIA vice-chair Peter Zahakos. “That’s all we’re asking, is for consultation.”

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  • Guest

    “Today Chabot-Vecera insisted: “We didn’t really change our stance. At the time it was the only option given us, was to have LRTs. But now we have other options available to us, and we’d like to have the best option available to our membership.”

    What part of this is she not getting (can’t believe this bimbo is the chair)……there IS NO money for a subway at Finch and LIKE Sheppard (which we should have listend to the warnings then), the capacity doesn’t support building one. LRTs were always the option no matter WHOSE plan was on the table……just becuase Mammoliti says Subways are an option doesn’t suddenly make that so nor does it make the money appear.

    I think I am perfectly fine with Mammoliti’s ward waiting 50 years for a subway at this point……I am sure other wards would love the new LRT

    • Anonymous

      Giorgio, show me the magic beans!

  • GuestUno

    What a joke! Mammoliti is an arrogant thug. Subway development is cheaper in other cities for various reasons:

    1) Better weather – more likely to be on schedule and I’d hazard to guess people work better in temperate climates
    2) Less existing development – It’s a lot more expensive to dig under buildings that already exist
    3) No Canadian Shield – Kind of a bitch to bore through. Takes longer = more $$$

    I don’t claim to be an expert but I use common sense. I’m sure there are plenty of other reasons for the higher costs. If it were really as simple as changing the $/km on a piece of paper, don’t you think we’d already have done it and would have Subways all across this city?

    As for Mr. Hudak…Remember that time you helped scrap a fully funded Subway on Eglinton?

    All of this could have been avoided if it weren’t for amalgamation. Back in the day if one of the metros deemed a Subway an important investment in infrastructure…they could finance it themselves!

    • http://www.facebook.com/peterjlynn Peter Lynn

      Toronto is not on the Canadian Shield. Otherwise, no arguments.

  • Anonymous

    The BIA originally backed the LRT proposal: “the community response was unanimous in support of the new LRT system,” enthuses their 2008 newsletter [PDF] describing a community meeting dedicated to discussing it. Today Chabot-Vecera insisted: “We didn’t really change our stance. At the time it was the only option given us, was to have LRTs. But now we have other options available to us, and we’d like to have the best option available to our membership.”

    Certainly sounds as though they liked LRT’s. Now they’re willing to wait 50 years for a subway. Everything about this screams, Mammolti pressuring/ threatening the BIA into supporting Ford’s vision.

  • Cranky Old Man

    (1) “people of his ward would sooner wait 50 years for a subway development, and have no alternative transit built in the meantime.” (A) Just because he says it, doesn’t make it so. (B) What about all the people who have to pass through his riding on their ways to work or back home every day. (2) “rushing public transportation,” Ya gotta be kidding me. We were already 10 years behind demand back when Mike Harris cancelled three new subways lines. The time for subways came, hung around for a generation, and moved on. Now we’re 30 years behind. Get a move on it George or get out of the way.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    So they were for LRT before they were against it, what’s the big deal?

    What a joke. I almost want to suggest building an LRT and specifically routing around the BIA area.

  • Anonymous

    Wow, Ford didn’t need any more nails in his coffin, but George goes and opens a whole foundry on Finch Ave just for him. What a chum.

    • Anonymous

      The lesson here is: If Mammoliti starts cosying up to you, run.

  • Anonymous

    I’d like to suggest that one of the busiest LRT stops in Mammoliti’s Ward be named after him.

    • Anonymous

      Wait. I take that back, he’d probably like that.

    • Anonymous

      I suggest having no stops in his ward at all, but build the LRT through it anyway.

      • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

        Gridlock, rek! Also gridlock. We need subway construction to cause gridlock so we can have less gridlock. Everyone knows LRT is streetcar and streetcar is gridlock. Cars have to stop behind streetcars and so streetcars cause gridlock. Look at the gridlock disaster on St. Clair. Gridlock.

        • Anonymous

          That’s it.

          It doesn’t make sense.

  • Anonymous

    Is all of this a Ford and goon councillor’s ploy to stall TTC expansion in the city until the next election? Because, come next election he won’t be able fool voters with slogans like “….the gravy train”, he’ll need something new like, “Subways, subways, subways” or “I could have had subways built all over the city by now, but councillors on the left kept me from doing it”.

    These nutbars are in constant election mode.

  • Anonymous

    A subway in that area would be madness and would need massive subsidies for such a low density neighborhood. The province should just withdraw the funding so more time isn’t wasted.

  • Anonymous

    By the way, the Emery Village BIA are the people who wanted to build the world’s biggest flagpole with the help of taxpayer money. The City nixed that idea, and now they are looking for private sector funding. Sound familiar?

    Perhaps the whole area is tripping on magic beans and rainbows. But given that only 40 out of 2,500 businesses took part in the vote to pay for the flagpole, I suspect most Emery Village businesses have no idea what their BIA is doing. And they must not know that a whopping one quarter of their $2 million levy goes to administration costs, paying for things like consultants and lawyers who seem more interested in promoting Giorgio Mammoliti’s ambitions than Emery Village.

    Emery Village: the Finch West subway “plan” exists nowhere except in the fevered delusions of Giorgio Mammoliti, who says you would prefer 50 years of gridlock if you can’t have a subway. Unless you want your businesses to go down with Ford, Mammo and the rest of them, you need to assert yourselves and take back the BIA.

  • Eric S. Smith

    BIA:

    But now we have other options available to us…

    No, you don’t. You have a scam that the Fordians pulled out of thin air. And what’s this 50 year business? I thought that they were pretending that it’d be built and running within 15.

    • Anonymous

      They should be consulted on magic carpets, too, since they’re about as likely as a subway.

  • http://twitter.com/mark_dowling Mark Dowling

    Typical Torontoist anti-Ford article. The Mayor did not run on subways or LRT on Finch West, he ran on “rapid” buses so that’s all they deserve. Stop giving airtime to this traitor who would still be called Gino-boy by His Worship if it were not for the need for his thumb.

    Ahem.

  • Anonymous

    50 years, huh? By which time Mammoliti will either be dead, or long into retirement. In either case, well out of the way of electoral retribution. Every time he opens his mouth he makes it clear what an opportunistic so-and-so he is.

  • Anonymous

    I have a funny feeling that when the Eglinton LRT opens and his residents get extremely envious of it, Mammoliti will instantly pivot and demand Finch LRT *RIGHT NOW*. Furthermore, he will have absolutely no recollection of having held any other viewpoint. Sheesh.

  • Anonymous

    Finch subway, hookers for Centre Island, communists at City Hall, Pride march video voyeurism… there’s a weird symmetry to this parallel universe.

  • Anonymous

    It seems apt that a BIA that is larger than all the others and which is mostly industrial with very low population density should get the entirely imaginary subway it didn’t want until it wanted it.

  • Anonymous

    I want subways.
    I also want a multi-million dollar house.
    I also want an army of French maids.
    I also want a gourmet chef at my home.
    I also want to be paid $5 million per year to travel and spend time with my friends and family.

    But none of these are reasonable, or realistic.

    So instead, I’ll gladly take a transit plan that has funding, a modest roof over my head, the ability to care for myself and the company of friends and family as often as possible.s

    Reality is that we have a solution which has been well thought out and is a massive improvement, while being fiscally responsible.

    I personally love how Hudak is jumping on the bandwagon, but has absolutely no solution or desire to address the funding shortfall. That’s the leadership that fails to win elections!

  • Guesty

    Tiny side note, please define all abbreviations. Not everyone knows what the BIA is.

    • Guesty

      Haha, just read it now in the first line. ARGH.

  • Anonymous

    MAMMOLITI is more of an idiot than Ford, that’s what I understand. Higher fuel cost, gridlock and environmental concerns will get people to transit. People won’t wait in their cars for 50 years. Toronto and the GTA doesn’t know how to plan transit. There should be hierarchy of different types of transit. High speed intercity rail, subway/Rapid Transit, LRT and bus/streetcar. Go transit should improve their system to a intercity frequency service, not a one way commuter ride. Subway should be built in place where there is demand, like the Downtown Relief line. LRT should be built to connect surburbs. Buses fills the gap. The whole subway or nothing approach doesn’t address intercity travel or even from Etobicoke to Scarborough. It also does nothing for improving local travel, that is if the store is not located by the subway station, it’s more of a hassle. The TTC doesn’t offer enough express bus service. Ford has not plans to fix the problem either.

  • Anonymous

    “people of his ward would sooner wait 50 years for a subway development, and have no alternative transit built in the meantime.”

    As you wish, councillor. Let’s use the Finch money as a down payment on the DRL. And then we can extend the Yonge line to York Region, and then implement a bunch more before Finch West has enough density to justify a subway. Your loss, not the rest of the city’s.