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Yea or Nay: Dundas-Ryerson Subway Station?



For several months, city hall observers, transit riders, and public-space activists have been watching with great interest as the TTC, and the municipal government more generally, have been moving towards a less restrictive policy for selling the naming rights to public spaces. If the Ford administration has its way, park playgrounds, public arenas, and subway station names may all soon be up for grabs. The goal, of course, is to increase revenues without raising taxes, and the question is whether trading identity for cash is a bargain we want to strike.
On the one hand, the City is distressingly behind in maintenance, basic upgrades, and state-of-good-repair work, and even if Ford and company hadn’t killed revenue-generating streams that were already in place, we’d still be facing major budget gaps. On the other: what binds us together as a city if not the spaces we share? Is giving up on the idea that parks should reflect their communities rather than the latest corporate sponsor really a concession we want to make? And more fundamentally: how committed are we to the ideal that public infrastructure should be payed for with public funds?
Today came news about the first potential test case for this new naming regime—and it’s far less commercialized than many were fearing. The proposal under consideration calls for Dundas Station, which lets out in part onto the Ryerson University campus, to somehow draw on Ryerson as a partner in a new name. (The most obvious candidate is “Dundas-Ryerson Station,” though we aren’t quite that far along in the process yet.)
At least—it’s far less obviously commercial. This naming proposal has the benefit that it is tied to a relevant institution—one that is proximate to the subway station in question—and that it is tied to an institution that has a public benefit, rather than being a purely commercial enterprise. However, it isn’t as though Ryerson itself would be ponying up the cash. Said Sheldon Levy, president of Ryerson: “If we could negotiate something and have our name on it, we would not be beyond looking to fundraise to make that happen.” Which is to say, it would still be commercial enterprises paying for basic improvements to public infrastructure, which is what at least some of the fuss is all about in the first place.
Does the name make a difference? Or is it the source of the cash that’s the real sticking point? Let us know what you think in the poll above.

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Comments

  • http://bart.whahay.net Bartek

    Subways are named after various corporations, organizations, etc. all around the world. TTC needs money badly because our government is horrible at giving any of it out.

    This makes absolutely compete sense, especially with more respected names like Ryerson.

  • Diego

    If it would mean significant revenue and perhaps improvements to the system in performance or even look, I honestly have no problem with naming subway stations just about anything. 

    In cases like this, I would actually PREFER it. It simply makes more sense and could make things easier to find for people who don't know the system/city well. Kind of like Museum Station. Or Yorkdale. I can't think of too many others where the name signals not just a street name, but a landmark.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Any naming sale would not bring in enough money to make a difference for TTC. See my earlier comment at http://torontoist.com/2011/06/… for some numbers.

  • http://twitter.com/fantasticmio Becky

    To be honest, at this point I'd be happy as long as it wasn't Scotiabank or Rogers.  Do they have to have their names on EVERYthing?

  • http://twitter.com/SeanPhotos Sean Galbraith

    I'm fine with selling naming rights with stations, corporate or not.

  • http://twitter.com/ftefno Simon Vehicle!

    Better than Quiznos Stop, or Best Buy Station.

  • http://twitter.com/JasonParis Jason Paris

    At least this makes a semblance of sense.  In Montreal, the major STM stations that cross a university's campus are hyphenated to reflect the school.  For example, Berri-UQM, Guy-Concorida, etc.  I'm not sure if the Montreal school's paid for this privilege though  Also, I can't think of many other examples in the TTC network where there's a huge enough “public” destination to warrant hyphenation (regardless of ad dollars coming in).  Perhaps, St-George/U of T, but I can't really think of others.

  • http://twitter.com/MarkJull Mark Jull

    I think selling the names to things like a university or college are the only ones that would work. Sure, Rogers or Scotiabank could be a name, but it would be completely meaningless. 'Ryerson station' makes sense at Ryerson, so would York U at York U. And even if a corporation named a station near its store, there's no guarantee that the store will remain there. Even if, say, Honest Ed's bought Bathurst – Honest Ed's isn't going to be there much longer.

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.moogk Benjamin Moogk

    I must say I'm skeptical about renaming things
    for cash. Sponsored place names tends to change after a couple of year
    after the sponsor loses interest (or changes name or goes tits up). I cannot keep-up
    with the name changes for the theatres and arenas in Toronto. That kind
    of instability of what to call TTC stations would cause confusion.
    All maps would have to be revised almost every year if even a few
    station names were for sale.

  • tomwest

    Ryerson is a publically funded university, so all the money would come from the taxpayer anyway!

  • HamutalDotan

    Actually, no. As per the article, Ryerson would fundraise (i.e. seek money from donors) for a project like this. It cannot come out of their government grants.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    How about Lawrence and L'Oreal?

  • isyouhappy

    and who's to say that isn't going to start once these floodgates are opened?

  • isyouhappy

    This is just spoonful of honey to help the poison go down.

    Don't fool yourself into thinking that FordInc/Stinz etc arn't already plotting how to sell off station names to corporations, this is just the first step.

  • Astin44

    I pointed this out in the daily news recap, but it's a shoehorn to let more corporate naming come into play. Sure, Dundas-Ryerson sounds good and makes sense. So would Queen's Park-U of T (or St. George – U of T) Museum is already Museum (but could be Museum – U of T as well).  St. Patrick – AGO? Great, all more “public” institutions that are also descriptive.  St. Andrew – Roy Thomson Hall? Queen-Massey Hall?

    But without very specific language, then you could see Union-Air Canada Centre/Union-MLSE.  It's an arena after all, the home of multiple local sports teams.  Or Queen-Eaton Centre South? Again, landmark, but corporate too. Then HBC gets upset because the mall across the road gets naming rights?  Or is a precedent already set with Yorkdale?  What about stations without a significant public landmark nearby? They then can't generate money?

    It starts a slippery slope.

  • Roy Murray

    Advertising revenue on all of the TTC brings in about 1% of its revenue – $15m; pretty well nothing statistically when compared to the $1.43 billion cost of running the operation. Let's not waste our time. Stations should be named so that tourists can find their way easily.

  • torontothegreat

    You're right about museum, but not Yorkdale. Yorkdale (the station and mall) are named after the neighbourhood they are in.

  • whereverjustice

    But couldn't that same fundraising be put to better use actually doing something for the university, rather than just shuffling money around the MUSH sector?

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    What irks me about this is why are the downtown stations first in line to be renamed? Why did Doug suggest Spadina-McDonald's to start this off, not Old Mill-McDonald's? Wilson-CCM? Midland-McCain? Abercrombie-Finch? (*ducks*) How would Stintz's constituents feel about Eglinton-Pickle Barrel?

  • torontothegreat

    Yorkdale is not named after the mall.

  • HamutalDotan

    An excellent question!

  • Diego

    Whatever it's named after, I meant Yorkdale Mall is right outside the station. Easy for just about anyone to know which station to go to which is my point. Also, I do realize I missed a bunch of others that qualify in this regard such as Old Mill, Queens Park, or even Union. (Queens Park is probably named after the street once again, but it being so close to actual Queens Park is helpful)

  • Diego

    Interesting post, thanks for that. Although when I finished reading I thought about the upkeep corporations might have for their stations so am glad you addressed that in the edit. Personally, I wouldn't mind stations being a giant ad if it was interesting in some way or at least seemed cleaner looking than say… the current St. Patrick station.

  • Diego

    Oh, the floodgates argument. Gotta love it. 
    Who's to say it stops there?! With corporations having such a stake in our public transportation system they might REROUTE the subway directly INTO Best Buy! The humanity!

  • Diego

    The problem with any UofT station would be that UofT is practically everywhere. If they had to choose, St. George station would be the most logical but an argument can be made for Queen's Park, Museum, etc.

  • http://www.facebook.com/marshall.sean Sean Marshall

    There are three reasons this is quite tame – the first is that Ryerson helps pay for an overhaul of the station to go with its new Yonge/Gould development. At least Ryerson, in exchange for naming rights, pays to make the station better, so it's hardly a cash-for-signage agreement. Secondly, they are not likely to eliminate the name Dundas, and “Dundas-Ryerson” puts the street name (and the square's name) first. Finally, Ryerson is a major public landmark so there's excellent geographic relevance.

    This isn't SEPTA's AT&T Station, this is more like Guy-Concordia or Barri-UQAM.

  • http://twitter.com/little_potato Ambrose Li

    If they are going for a name change then don’t even bother calling it Dundas-Ryerson. Just call it just Ryerson and get rid of the ambiguity between Dundas and Dundas West. As a subway station name, Ryerson makes more sense than Dundas.

  • isyouhappy

    I'm glad you like it.

  • torontothegreat

    Old Mill is not named after the hotel. I don't see how insignificant landmarks like Ryerson would be helpful to people visiting the city at all.

  • torontothegreat

    Where is there a free for all corporate named stations in the world you speak of?

  • EDMUNDOCONNOR

    St. Patrick station brought to you by Guinness.

    St. Andrew station brought to you by Johnnie Walker.

  • http://twitter.com/cyzmic cЯ★

    Lets just rename our whole city to the highest bidder. Rogersville…?
    The Ryerson  example isn't the worst ever but I agree with others who have said this is a slippery slope of selling out.
    This is just a bad, short-sighted idea from a desperate, uncreative mayor /city staff.

  • http://twitter.com/castlkeepr Chris Lea

    Tokyo and Osaka come to mind, which both have subway lines named after department stores (Keio and Hankyu lines)

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    The city of Toronto is brought to you by Rogers, dedicated to customer service excellence just like Mayor Ford.

  • torontothegreat

    That's a little misleading though (Red Herring territory, actually).  Both lines are privately owned.  Keio isn't named after a department store but rather the conglomerate that owns it, ie: Keio Corporation.  The second is the same named after Hankyu Corporation.  Both predate the private stores you speak of.

    Really, far stretching with those 2 examples.

  • torontothegreat

    Isn't Ryerson the same?

  • andrew97

    The one time I visited Seoul, the closest station to my hotel was Samsung.

    I am pretty sure it was named for the company. I'm not sure if the corporate headquarters were nearby or what the story was.

  • andrew97

    Ryerson is in a box bounded by Yonge, Dundas, Jarvis, and Gerrard. The only subway station close to that is Dundas.

  • torontothegreat

    You are correct. Thanks for pointing that out.

  • http://twitter.com/di0nysys Andrew Smith

    Ryerson business faculty also exists above the Canadian Tire and Best Buy between Yonge and Bay on Dundas.

  • http://twitter.com/di0nysys Andrew Smith

    lol! but, it's not entirely funded by the government.