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news

Billboard Companies Protest Billboard Tax…On Illegal Billboards

20091201billboards76church.jpg
76 Church Street. Photo courtesy of Illegal Signs.


The billboard industry is—obviously—in the business of getting messages across.
This they have managed to do, with a vengeance.
In anticipation of today’s City Council debate on a proposed new billboard bylaw and tax, the billboard industry has been using its own platform to communicate its deep opposition to these measures. The Out-of-Home Marketing Association of Canada (OMAC), which represents the vast majority of billboard companies operating in Toronto, launched this campaign last week, setting aside 139 billboards for the cause.
Inconveniently, it turns out that at least two of these 139 billboards have been deemed illegal by the City. As pointed out and explained to us by Rami Tabello of Illegal Signs, both are in violation of existing regulations and neither should be doing what they are doing, namely expressing just how aggrieved and put-upon the billboard industry is feeling.
And this, say public-space activists, is precisely the point.


20091201billboards1163stclair.jpg
1163 St. Clair Avenue West. Photo courtesy of Illegal Signs.


The billboard industry has, for years, been running amok, routinely flouting the bylaws that do exist and that cannot be enforced since the City lacks the money to pay for it. It flouts them so routinely that nobody thought to check that billboards protesting the purportedly undue burdens of taxation (Toronto does not levy a tax on billboards at the moment) and harmonized regulation (the rules have not been updated since amalgamation) themselves adhered to the law. And OMAC would have had to check, since so very many of its member companies’ signs are, in fact, illegal. Up to half, according to Tabello’s estimate. (To learn more about the specific violations shown in these photographs, you can look at the City reports on 76 Church Street [PDF] and 1163 St. Clair Avenue West [PDF].)
Likely the biggest point of contention in today’s debate will be the rate of the tax, which the industry claims is greater than its total earnings and an independent economist contracted by the City estimates at 7% of industry revenues [PDF]. The sheer size of the gap between those two numbers indicates just how loose a grip the City has on this matter and how badly it needs to get one. Maybe the proposed tax rate is too high. Maybe it is too low. Without the industry providing reliable information on its earnings (according to the report issued by the aforementioned economist, David Amborski, “[t]he OMAC Study provided no verifiable data or a method that could be utilised to review the accuracy of the revenue and earnings information provided”) there is simply no way to know.
We happen to be of the view that most billboards are a blight. They are visual pollution that, contrary to industry claims, do not provide a “public service” by “informing” us about anything we find vitally important. They are getting bigger, and they are getting brighter, and at least once this past summer the aggregate luminosity of ones at Yonge-Dundas Square gave us a migraine. But that is not the point. The proposed regulations will not eliminate billboards, and they aren’t trying to. Nobody is attempting to strangle the industry to death, stamp out all billboards across the land, or otherwise start a revolution. The City has every right to govern what goes on in our public spaces, and it has every obligation to be a good steward of those spaces, balancing the commercial interests of the industry and the property owners to whom billboard companies pay rent with the civic interests of the majority of Torontonians, 70% of whom support this tax according to a recent poll [PDF].
Nobody likes to be forced to play by the rules. That doesn’t make refereeing an unfair practice.
Council will begin its discussion of the proposed billboard bylaw and tax at 9:30 a.m. You can watch the debate live here. If you have an opinion on this issue, you can find a directory of city councillors here.

Comments

  • TokyoTuds

    I love the irony of them using illegal billboards to champion their cause. I agree billboards are a blight, and we need to carefully guard our public spaces.

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    I don’t know what irritates me more, illegal billboards or people who obsess on illegal billboards.
    Anyway, I would point out there that earnings and gross revenues are completely different things, and it’s entirely possible that both OMAC and the city’s economist are accurate in their claims.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    I think it doesn’t prove any kind of point other than that illegalsigns.ca is the only one keeping track. Obviously the city isn’t and the industry isn’t. To conclude the industry’s motivation(s) is just retarded.
    Public space does not include private property. The argument is weak.

  • http://www.blog.canoe.ca/canoedossier David Newland

    If you put a sign on private property, but the whole world can see it, the public has a huge vested interest in what it says, how it’s regulated, etc.
    But I’m biased: billboards bug me. They litter the landscape with commercial messages that I can’t help reading.
    While some may be art, most are visual pollution, and I think we’d be a classier city if we had way fewer such distractions.
    Yonge-Dundas Square is a national embarrassment.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    So if I can see your TV from the roadway I can barge into your home and watch it? It’s my public space? I can regulate what’s hanging in your window?
    Great NIMBY argument :P

  • http://undefined fantasygoat

    What I don’t understand is how the industry could possibly think these signs would have any effect on the general public. Who in their right mind would think that a tax on billboards would cost them anything personally?
    “Yet another tax we can’t afford”? Who’s “we”? The industry? Frankly, most people I know would prefer they go out of business, so it seems like a tax “we” can afford quite nicely! I saw one of these signs at Leslie and Queen last night and I was just dumbstruck at the absurdity.
    This tax can’t come fast enough.

  • Mark Ostler

    Actually, the article provides links to two City of Toronto reports on the two illegal billboards in question. Kind of proves that the city is in fact keeping track, at least a little bit.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Are landlords and property owners not the general public? If you answer yes, what if the “tax” comes down on renters? Better yet, the city & illegalsigns has absolutely NO idea who or how this will impact the city. Why you ask? Cause they “forgot” to ask or do any kind of case study.
    I’m watching this on the net right now and the the illegalsigns camp looks totally unprepared, they can’t answer even the most simple of questions cause they just don’t have the answers, cause they never bothered to find out.
    I’d be surprised if this was voted on in a positive way for the illegalsigns camp. They got their moment and are (seemingly) totally blowing it.

  • http://undefined Moonmoth

    Yes irony indeed – well noted. I just hope this thing passes today. Why should billboard companies be exempt from taxation, nothing else really is. And of course it’s a logical model for funding city beautification projects.
    (goes to email local councillor re: asking to support this tax)

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    well one of them is earmarked as “active investigation”. So it’s non-conclusive yet and therefore, hyperbole on illegalsigns and torontoist’s part.

  • http://www.blog.canoe.ca/canoedossier David Newland

    If you can hear my TV from the sidewalk, you have a right to complain.

  • http://undefined Mark Ostler

    But clearly the city IS keeping track, despite your earlier assertion to the contrary. I was merely commenting on your statement that the city isn’t looking into the issue, not on the issue of the sign’s legality.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Who said anything about hearing? We’re talking about “visuals” in public space here. Wake up.

  • http://undefined RealityCheck

    This is simply a totalitarian attack on free speech and property rights. What is funny is that the people driving it are self proclaimed urbanists, yet they hate most aspects of living in a city.
    The city should have no regulations on signs, bar vandalism (all unapproved ads, such as postering mailboxes, utility poles, or spray painting sidewalks), and obscenity.
    As to “everyone should pay taxes” everyone does pay taxes. Governments should only be able to levy one tax. We are a constitutional democracy and not the plaything of an absolute monarch. It is understandable for French Kings to want to extract the most amount of feathers with the least amount of hissing, but as citizens we are best served by the least amount of feather and the most amount of hissing. The city should only levy a property tax on residential properties, so that voters see the entire cost of all the programs they demand. Allowing the city other taxes creates a malignant and tyrannical demand for “free” services.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    I’m glad you admit your bias. I am bias (obviously) to billboard companies as they donate millions of dollars a year to the non-profit sector that I work in, whether through dollars or free ad campaigns. No one has stopped to ask how this will affect health organizations with no money that utilize PSA’s from these companies.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Sorry, I meant that statement as a discovery on the bias of the article itself. I should have been more clear.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    well said!

  • rek

    Are you saying billboard companies will pass the tax on to landlords?
    I think you have their relationship backwards.

  • http://undefined Noah

    What a wonderfully ignorant journalist they found to write this story.

    Likely the biggest point of contention in today’s debate will be the rate of the tax, which the industry claims is greater than its total earnings and an independent economist contracted by the City estimates at 7% of industry revenues [PDF]. The sheer size of the gap between those two numbers indicates just how loose a grip the City has on this matter and how badly it needs to get one.

    (emphasis added)
    Newsflash dude, “earnings” are not the same thing as “revenues”. Most industries don’t earn profits of more than 7%, so it’s entirely plausible that the tax is indeed greater their entire earnings, while at the same time being only 7% of their revenues. There is no “gap” between these numbers that requires explaining.

  • http://undefined rek

    “journalist”
    I think you meant blogger.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    You speak with such authority on this that you must know something that my contacts in the outdoor industry do not.
    The answer: Yes, they will, which is why landlords are PISSED. I think YOU have the relationship backwards. Landlords profit a great deal from having these billboards.

  • http://undefined rek

    Why is it commonly accepted that companies pass on costs to consumers, but when the consumer is another company it’s an outrage? If the tax is too high, billboard companies will have to raise their rates and advertisers will have to rethink just how badly they need to spam the city.

  • http://undefined Hamutal Dotan

    Yes, of course earnings are different than revenues. The “gap” between these two numbers is precisely that fact: we are operating in a vacuum where those two non-comparable numbers are the only ones we have to work with. We have no idea whatsoever what the industry revenues are, because they have refused to provide this information in any kind of detail that could be verified by a third party, only an aggregate whose veracity neither the City nor the independent economist it contracted could check. That economist was forced to evaluate industry revenues based on their published rate cards, and then discounted those rates by 30% to account for vacancies and discounts that the sign companies often offer to their larger customers.
    @torontothegreat. “I’m watching this on the net right now and the the illegalsigns camp looks totally unprepared, they can’t answer even the most simple of questions cause they just don’t have the answers, cause they never bothered to find out.” I am not sure to whom you are referring. The only people who have been speaking on this issue are City staffers and the councillors who have been posing questions. Nobody other than staff and elected officials will be speaking today: members of the “illegalsigns camp” spoke, and answered questions, at the Planning and Growth Management Committee meeting last month, and not at all today.

  • http://undefined rek

    Landlords profit
    And that’s my point. They aren’t paying the billboard company to put signs on their roof, billboard companies come to them asking for the space. Landlords can raise the rates or say no when the billboard company offers them less money.
    Don’t like it? Then take down your billboard (-$), find a less ideal location (-$$$) and put it there (-$).

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Yes and f spending in a recession :P smrt

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    That is why I said “camp”. As in supporters. As in councilors in the back pocket of this very small fringe group.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Camp

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Can you give an example? I can link to countless articles on THIS site which prove you wrong. Broadcasters passing on extra costs to consumers gets people livid (gee, wally, what’s happening at the CRTC right now?). So way to dilute the situation just cause it’s a company. I would counter your argument by saying that why do people not care when it IS a company. You know, those organizations run by PEOPLE?

  • http://undefined dowlingm

    @torontothegreat “I am bias (obviously) to billboard companies as they donate millions of dollars a year to the non-profit sector that I work in, whether through dollars or free ad campaigns. No one has stopped to ask how this will affect health organizations with no money that utilize PSA’s from these companies.” – so any enterprise who donates to the non-profit you work in should be tax exempt on their activities rather than be taxed at 5-10% of revenues? Why are billboard companies special over other donors?

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    That’s not at all what I’m saying. The question (or statement rather) that keeps being presented is: “who cares it only affects the big billboard companies”. Fair?
    “Why are billboard companies special over other donors?”
    Umm. other donors are actually MORE “special” as you put it, ever heard of a tax exemption for charity?

  • http://undefined Nefandus

    The Nielsen Company (of TV ratings fame) operates in Canada and measures $ spend on out-of-home advertising in Canada. I doubt they would drill down to provide just Toronto ad spend data, but you never know.
    http://www.nielsen.com

  • http://undefined Peter K

    They’re public spaces for a reason. Guarding them means different things to different people. I’d rather look at a billboard than a graffiti “mural” or some of the hideous public art that gets erected.

  • http://undefined Matthew

    One of the most impressive features of Chicago that I noticed on an architechtural boat tour was just how little billboards there were around the city. I would guess that Chicago has at most 10% of the advertising that Toronto has. And they got to be Gotham while we had to settle for getting tore up by the Hulk.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    “But we didn’t know that the ad we put up, we regularly change, we maintain, and we charge for is illegal!”

  • http://undefined Nefandus

    Matthew, the same is true for New York City, which, aside from Times Square, is conspicuously billboard free when compared to Toronto. Though, I’m not clear on exactly how Toronto’s poor urban planning and poor bylaw enforcement should somehow translate into arts funding. It seems that there are more direct methods of redress that have nothing to do with the arts funding piggyback, such as planning better and enforcing bylaws.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    The “back pocket” of volunteers who might occasionally receive PayPal donations? Please think before posting.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    Trick question: what’s your take on the HST?

  • http://undefined robducey

    Nefandus: here’s why cut and pasted directly from one of beautifulcity’s postings. This logic works for me.
    The premise of the campaign is that billboard advertising, unlike all other forms of advertising, provides no content to the public in exchange for taking up public space (editorial to advertising ratios for TV is 75/25, for print is usually 50/50 but for billboards is 0 to 100).The tax will help to create ‘editorial’ by increasing the city’s arts funding and ensuring greater public access to art in exchange for use of public space.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Back pocket of those with an agenda.
    Think before posting, please.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Who are you quoting?

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    Hong Kong, on the other hand, is plastered with wall-to-wall advertising and is one of the most charismatic, exciting cities in the world. What’s your point?

  • http://undefined Nefandus

    Billboard ads are the only ones that offer nothing in exchange for our attention while blighting out public space – fair enough. Consumers are savvy enough to realize that our attention is monetized –about time. That’s a sound enough argument to say out-of-home needs to give something back to the public, perhaps even beyond the many PSAs they do for United Way, homeless, abused kids and women. I agree with this much.
    But Rob, it does not follow (necessarily) that arts funding becomes the beneficiary, as if their is a net balance like some kind of beautification carbon credit. As I understand it, the proposal has only a portion of the money earmarked for arts funding, which is defined rather broadly, going beyond beautification, no? And is it all for free public art, as accessible as our attention is to those signs? If it isn’t simply for beautification, then the argument opens the door for any of the other civic minded charities to ask for their piece. Want to pitted against Sick Kids Hospital? United Way? Abused women’s shelters? Isn’t that the typical argument offered for cutting arts funding? What if it all went to city parks and rec? Urban forestry? And that still doesn’t solve the original problem of the poor planning and bylaw enforcement. It just seems a convoluted way of approaching two completely different problems, and resolving neither of them particularly well. And if the tax sinks the whole canoe (ie. tax exceeding the revenue), the industry will fold – that ad money will go to other media (magazine, online, TV, radio, newspaper), and then the arts gets nothing (though the city looks better).
    Yes, I would love LOVE to have more arts funding in Toronto, and having seen and lived in other metropolitan cities, it is apparent that our signs are out of control – a blight. But that doesn’t mean there is a connection between them.

  • rek

    Oh no, you’ve invoked the R-word!

  • http://undefined rek

    What influence do you think they have over councillors? You can’t have someone in your pocket without the power to make them do what you want.

  • http://undefined dowlingm

    robducey – the difference in your analogy is that the editorial/advertising ratio does not involve the government taxing the media outlet and then deciding who the advertisers are – the media outlets have the right to sell that advertising at their rates and to whom they choose.
    Extending that logic would have the ad companies promising to give the likes of torontothegreat’s non-profit 25% of all ad space as “social editorial” as long as they can have as many billboards as they want. Not where we want to go with this.
    Public art shouldn’t be funded by a de facto sin tax. If it is a core activity of the city, it should come out of property taxes – and that’s a conversation the citizens generally should have a say in, not 44 councillors and a bunch of facebook groups.
    The billboard tax should first and foremost be a user fee which the buildings department uses to offset any 2010 budget cuts and ensure a well resourced *and well managed* inspection regime in Toronto not dependent on citizens to do their job for them.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Why are you thinking so shallow about this? Both of you. (You and Paul)
    News flash: Money isn’t the only motivator for people. Agenda’s don’t have to be backed by money.
    Career moves are often made for free with the agenda of being something bigger/better.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    It could be argued that the advertising actually ad(d)s to the allure of the city as well.
    Same goes for Budapest’s non-historically protected property.

  • http://undefined Michael

    tax them hard and put the money towards transit (especially for those awfully boring car adverts they put near bus shelters in poor neighborhoods)

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    I am quoting the only possible statement from the industry that would support your claim that “obviously [...] the industry isn’t [keeping track of illegal billboards]” contained in the comment I was replying to.

  • http://undefined Green Sulfur

    Any commenter that posts the volume and style of comments that TorontoTheGreat has on this issue must have more of an interest than a few charitable donations. TTG’s contrived logic and ad hominem attacks show her for what she really is: an industry hack.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    ahh so you’re just playing make-believe. Thanks for clarifying.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    It’s not a “career move” to pander to “very small fringe groups”, because they can’t elect you or keep you elected.
    To automatically allege improper influence in the face of opposing viewpoints is a nasty, partisan habit best kept in the comment threads of the G&M, Star and Post. It annoys me no matter which direction it’s going. Simply acknowledge that some councillors personally hold the opinions with which you disagree.
    Until people stop doing stuff like this, there’s no point discussing anything.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    I’m out of a job if this happens. Your second sentence is simply a projection of what you just did to me.
    At least I have a point to MAKE Green Sulfur. Your whimsical anecdotes (presumptions?) of my motives are troll-ish at best.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Sorry should read: I could be out of a job if this happens.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    “It’s not a “career move” to pander to “very small fringe groups”, because they can’t elect you or keep you elected.”
    I disagree. Issues propel civic politics. Jumping on a bandwagon early makes you seem as though you were there first and possibly a pioneer of the movement…
    you following now?

  • http://undefined robducey

    Nefandus: I think there is a connection between urban blight (bad for residents) and urban beautification (good for residents) and it is reasonable to connect the two directly through taxation. It seems I’m not alone as the part of the now famous Ekos poll that people haven’t talked much about is that the number of Torontonians that support the tax goes down dramatically if the revenue isn’t tied directly to arts funding.
    Dowlingm: You are correct that it is the difference in the analogy, which is why it took till the 21st Century to get here. TV and radio HAD to provide editorial for attention. Billboards don’t. That’s exactly how we got here and why the gov’t should tax them. Your assertion that the gov’t would have an impact on WHO the advertisers are makes no sense to me. The bylaw does not come anywhere near dealing with content. Also, reducing democracy to the activities of “44 Counsellors” is disingenuous at best. In Canada we have these things called elections, one’s coming up soon if you don’t like these 44 people having all this inappropriate power.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    Look on the bright side. At least I don’t knowingly put up illegal structures all over the city.

  • http://undefined rek

    “Jumping on a bandwagon early makes you seem as though you were there first and possibly a pioneer of the movement…”
    Agreeing with a “fringe group” isn’t the same as being in their pocket. It takes a special kind of cynic or paranoiac to twist it that way.
    Having an agenda doesn’t put someone in your pocket, or put you in someone else’s pocket. Without the resources or influence (whether it be funding or connections), no pocketing is possible.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Ahhh naivety, wish I still had that… Where did I say that anyone agreed with them?
    When you have city councilors agreeing with people when it’s obvious said city councilors haven’t the slightest of what’s going on, what would you call that? Did you watch the debate yesterday? If so, you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.
    Thanks for attacking me though. Great debate :P

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    PURPLE!

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    I’m more of a pink person myself.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    Companies are, by their very nature, necessarily motivated by profit first and foremost.
    People aren’t… always.

  • Miles Storey

    The tax issue is in the billboard companies’ court, they need to justify their figures, they can’t expect the council to just take them at their word.
    The only issue as far as I’m concerned, whether you see this as some nanny state going after a legitimate business, or a scheming cabal trying to put one over on the city, is whether billboards are legal or not. If a sign is illegally erected then there needs to be punitive fines that include the amount of income generated by that billboard.

  • http://undefined Solex

    The answer: Yes, they will, which is why landlords are PISSED. I think YOU have the relationship backwards. Landlords profit a great deal from having these billboards.

    AFAIK, landlords can go and fuck themselves up their asses.
    Thanks to these landlords (I call them greedlords) most of Queen Street wast of University is now a corporate shithole-thanks to them, Pages bookstore is gone-thanks to them, Active Surplus isn’t what it used to be-thanks to them, all of the more colourful businesses are gone. If this tax/law goes through and most of these greedy assholes go out of business-great! Maybe they can go and play Monopoly while jizzing themselves.

  • http://undefined Darren

    Relaitycheck is spot on. The downtowncore is DISGUSTING with the amount of crap on utility poles courtesy of the nutbars hired by sleazy agencies promoting some venue or some pyramid scheme.
    This council would tax anything that moves if it can make for money for them to blow out their rear ends in wild junkets

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    If such were the case, almost the entire city would be homeless and jobless. Think about it.

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    I think you meant journalist.

  • http://undefined Green Sulfur

    Might I suggest that whatever non-profit it is you work for try to find sources of funding that include legitimate business, not the outdoor advertising mob that has abused Torontonians with their illegal signs for the last umpteen decades? What kind of non-profit would be proud to call these clowns their partner?

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    It could be argued that the advertising actually ad(d)s to the allure of the city as well.” [citation needed]

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Do you believe that billboards have a significant transformational impact on the identity and personality of our cities?

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    And all arabs are terrorists blah blah blah…

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Funding? What the hell are you talking about, funding? READ: PSA.

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    You’ve just asserted that someone could think exactly that, and that that “significant transformational impact on the identity and personality of our cities” would be a positive one which “actually ad(d)s to the allure of the city.” I’m really just genuinely curious to hear this hypothetical argument.

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    The argument is aesthetic and hence unprovable. I referenced Hong Kong above because to me the ubiquitous signage and advertising did add to the allure.
    Which isn’t surprising. To be successful, advertising has to be tailored to appeal to its audience, whereas outdoor art – or god help us, “street art” – is often just a public wank for its creators.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Citation added Mr. Topping ;) Thanks, Patrick Metzger
    Also this:
    business tourism: china’s golden child
    Fancy a taste of the good life? Hong Kong is the manifestation of unabashed materialism. One glance at this atypical Chinese skyline and it is easy to understand why, in hotels and meeting rooms, the sky is the limit.
    By Jennifer Berry
    Lion dancers and dragons, rising and twisting to the sound of crashing cymbals and gongs. High-tech conferencing, mobile phones and iPods. Jutting neon, holistic spas, new-age nightclubs and Tai’ Chi. This edgy metropolis offers the executive a roiling fusion of East meets West.
    Welcome to Hong Kong, “City of Life”. Conspicuous and brash, where luxury knows no bounds. Whether mingling at the Hong Kong Jockey Club, arriving by helicopter for lunch at Felix, being chauffeured in a limousine on a shopping trek or dining at the exclusive China Club, Hong Kong’s bill-of-fare for executives is endless.
    The former British colony also boasts dazzling lights, piercing skyscrapers, a dynamic harbour and rich Chinese ethnicity.
    Peruse the city’s streetscape and you will see bamboo scaffolding beside towering office blocks. Centuries-old temples nestle amid high-density grottos. Taoist art resides beneath blazing billboards advertising Apple or Sony. Nowhere else will you find a mélange of floating restaurants and wet markets crammed with the corporate crowds.
    Traditional Chinese customs still permeate Hong Kong life. So how do you fuse yang and yin into your Hong Kong stay?
    http://anthillonline.com/going-global-get-lost-in-hong-kong/
    Emphasis added.

  • rek

    Would Hong Kong be so alluring if, like Toronto, the advertising was spread out, the majority of buildings much shorter, and the streets wider?
    It’s easier to ignore a single billboard at Younge-Dundas than a lone billboard in Bloor West Village.

  • http://undefined rek

    Let’s compromise: third person diarist.

  • http://undefined Torontrepreneur

    The popular argument for removal, restriction and taxation of billboards is that billboards do not make any return investment to the community. In a November 20th email from the Toronto Arts Council, the group behind the proposed tax (BeautifulCity.ca) is quoted as saying that “The premise.. is that billboard advertising, unlike all other forms of advertising, provides no content to the public in exchange for taking up public space.” In addition to a skewed perspective on what constitutes public space (most billboards exist on private property), this argument assumes a narrow definition of the word “content”. Princeton University’s understands “content” as “the sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned” or “everything that is included in a collection and that is held or included in something”. If we view “content” through a Princetonian lens, then, in economic, creative, artistic, functional and informative capacities, billboards absolutely do engage in an exchange for the public’s attention.
    A billboard, like all outdoor advertising, is created by specialized teams of artists, writers and creatives, purchased by media buyers and planners, sold by account representatives, printed by press operators on material created by derivative manufacturers with colour brought to life in ink plants, delivered by couriers and installed by sign technicians – all employees deriving taxable earnings from the payrolls of small businesses. Ask these individuals and their families whether they feel a billboard’s content has any public value. Billboards are not only placed on city-owned and controlled property but often private property usually belonging or leased to small business owners. As the city well understands, the income from advertising leases plays an important role in financing the organizations operating behind any surface to which an ad is affixed. Be it a street car or bus shelter, a restaurant or an apartment building, proprietors derive great value from their participation in outdoor advertising. As bottom lines are pinched, this taxable income has in many cases come to represent the difference between continued operation and insolvency. Ask these individuals and their families – and all of those who depend on them in some way (be it for a ride to work or a place to work) whether they feel a billboard’s content has any public value. Billboards entertain, inform, direct, engage, excite, connect, enliven, brighten and enlighten the community, reminding citizens that they live in a culturally relevant and economically viable democracy where anything is possible. Not insignificantly, Toronto’s Outdoor Advertising Industry also directly donates more than $10 million worth of advertising to charities and not-for-profits every single year (including initiatives backed by City Hall). In co-occurring and concomitant fashion, every benefit enjoyed by those directly connected to the outdoor advertising industry represents a significant benefit to the public at large.
    Further, billboards are a globally recognized symbol of economic prosperity and play an important role in lubricating the mechanics of a free market economy. In the Department of Finance’s recent “What it means” TV spot for “Canada’s Economic Action Plan”, campaign creative is shown on billboards six different times as a backdrop to Canadians talking about what the plan will do for them. Above a superimposed “Small business tax cuts” footer, a female business owner says “It means I can get my staff new computers.” Similarly, a construction business owner, speaking above a “Work sharing agreements” super states “.. I can keep all my employees.” Both sentiments embody the spirit of an economic rebound and underscore important components of the plan. Never once do any Canadians mention increased regulation or taxation as elements of their vision of the road to recovery.
    In the spirit of fully and adequately assessing the practicality of these proposed programs, you should consider the motivations of the parties influencing these changes. IllegalSigns.ca founder Rami Tabello has said that “By the time IllegalSigns.ca is done, large format vinyl fascia signs will be finished in Toronto, and so will the local sub-industry that has developed around them.” This language clearly illustrates total disregard for the regional economy and underscores Mr. Tabello’s myopic perspective of the outdoor advertising industry.
    In a broader context, inclusive of the major anti-billboard players, the agenda of this review has been driven by groups and individuals with decidedly anti-business views. IllegalSigns.ca is peppered with such commerce-averse language as “transnational brand hegemonies” and “Corporate Vice” while decrying signs “purpose(d) (for) profit (with) information a (sic) pretence.” and trumpeting fears of outdoor advertising “turning our Streets into pages of a mass-market magazine.” IllegalSigns.ca cohort BeautifulCity.ca doesn’t get it either. Although looking toward an honourable end (and recognizing the importance of growing the local economy), those behind the initiative have demonstrated a poor understanding of their proposed means. The proposal to increase funding to the arts as a means of job creation comes at the expense of those already receiving a pay cheque in the advertising industry. The suggestion is akin to forcing the billboard industry to add Toronto’s arts community to their payrolls (a community they already support substantially through employment and donations) while laying off their own staff to free up the required resources. With economists struggling to make sense of our current fiscal predicament, the timing hardly seems appropriate to allow these ideologies to dictate policies with such a profound impact on Toronto’s economic viability.
    The taxation plan, while being well-intentioned, is not only misdirected but most certainly fails the tests applied to a new tax proposal. In the City’s Staff Report on New Sign Regulation and Revenue Strategy for the City of Toronto, dated October 20, 2009, the authors note that “Taxes must be direct taxes and cannot be based on income, profits or energy or resource consumption.” The city’s proposed tax fails this test on two fronts. First, the motivation for this tax proposal is based largely on resource consumption as public space is most certainly a resource and the move toward billboard taxation was initiated by a group who’s strongest opposition to the presence of billboards is firmly rooted in advertising’s use of “public space”. Additionally, the City’s repeated reference to the billboard industry’s revenues make it difficult for me to understand how the formulation of this tax has not been executed in consideration of income or profit. I have personally witnessed councilors Adam Vaughn and Howard Moscoe mock industry representatives in debate over the impact that the tax will have in light of their (Councilor Vaughn and Councilor Moscoe’s) shared perception of the profitability of billboards. The obvious consensus at City Hall is that the tax is one this industry can afford. This sentiment is a clear illustration that income and profit have also been primary considerations in the process of constructing this new tax plan.
    This is not to suggest that conditions are perfect in outdoor advertising and is not to suggest that changes are not due – but it is to say that now is not the time. The city has been complicit in allowing the outdoor advertising industry to evolve as it has – creating a “business as usual” environment where the unwritten rules have become the universally excepted norm and it (the City) has directly benefited from this relationship. The billboard industry has been a long standing contributor to too many balance sheets to consider any new legislation that would shrink or eliminate these inputs at this precarious moment in our shared fiscal recovery.
    While I would hope for a “don’t rock the boat” approach from my municipal government – Council appears to be drilling holes in the billboard industry’s hull.
    I’ll offer this in closing.. If the argument is that billboards are responsible for the “over commercialization” of “the public space” and engage in this activity without returning anything to the general public for their existence… tell me how a 40 foot billboard differs from a 40 foot store window. Let’s examine them side by side:
    - Both pay rent to the same landlord.
    - Both exist with primary objective of generating profit.
    - Both sell other people’s products.
    - Both employ scores tax-paying Torontonians in order to facilitate their business activities.
    - Both exist on PRIVATE PROPERTY.
    - Both pay tax on every dollar they earn.
    The difference?
    - Only one is the focus of a scarily precedent-setting tax and the scourge of hipsters everywhere.
    If you dislike commerce and the free market economy, move to Cuba.

  • http://undefined IllegalSigns.ca

    @Torontrepreneur, rather than make a deputation at the Planning and Growth Management Committee when you had the chance, you appear to prefer to get your message across with a denesly worded comment on this blog, 3 days after the post went up. As someone who purports to help companies get their message across in this City, I would therefore suggest that a billboard tax would not be the critical factor in the future health of your advertising business.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    The best response you could come up with is accusatory remarks implying he is an advertising company owner? Tight.

  • http://undefined Torontrepreneur

    Most of these thoughts were shared in a letter delivered to councilors and the project team last week.
    The objective of this “densely worded” post is to share an opinion with those who were not copied on the original letter.
    That said, the business advice is appreciated.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    Why won’t anyone think of The Economy?
    It’s not like we’d need proven, accurate numbers or anything.

  • http://undefined IllegalSigns.ca

    My bad, I neglected to view his post “through a Princetonian lens.”

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    It’s a cash grab, plain and simple. Bunch of City Hall wonks sitting around debating who they can shake down without too much public squawking – “Pedophiles? Too poor. Neo-Nazis? Not enough of ‘em. Hey, I got it – everybody hates advertising!”

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    Discourage pedophilia → sentencing rules, parent and child education, neighbourhood vigilance, teacher training, etc.
    Discourage racism → hate crime laws, perpetuate societal norms, promote consciousness of WWII history, work in schools to lower delinquency.
    You could, perhaps, tax windowless white vans, and hair bleach/leather boots respectively, but I doubt those things would have the intended effects. Also, note that it is not illegal to be a pedophile or a neo-Nazi; only to act like one in a way that hurts others.
    Now:
    Reduce (illegal) billboard advertising → (pick up to seven)

    1. Pray real hard.
    2. Have lots of friendly talks with the nice advertising people so that they decide to make less money by putting up fewer (and fewer illegal) billboards.
    3. Have lots of friendly talks with the nice landowners so they decide to take down billboards and turn away those fat cheques from advertisers.
    4. Double or triple the size of the bylaw enforcement staff. Bigger legal budget to help force compliance.
    5. Give money/tax breaks to billboard advertisers who don’t put up illegal signs, or pay them to stop breaking laws.
    6. Make billboard advertising less profitable somehow. Higher taxes, permit fees, etc.
    7. Ban billboard advertising entirely.

    That government functions by brainstorming ideas for “cash grabs” is, plainly and simply, a ridiculous distortion. Various means are chosen according to their ability to achieve specific objectives. In this case, choosing only from #1 through #5 would involve spending more of that precious, hard-earned money which the city so unfairly tore from your hapless, weary fingers. #7 would get struck down as a Charter violation, etc.

  • http://undefined rek

    Well-written, though I disagree with it. Taxation is not termination. Invoking “small business” and the Joe The Plumbers who work there borders on F.U.D. I get tired of people arguing businesses should have blank cheques to do whatever they way, because they employ people.
    Billboards, including those located on private property, are 100% intended for public consumption. And with an exception for in-house brand advertising in malls, they are nearly always intended to be viewed from public spaces. Being seen is the point, after all.

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    Or (8), use resources taxed from citizens and businesses for the purpose of law enforcement to, um, enforce the laws.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    They already do that.
    Rami Tabello’s efforts at IllegalSigns are solely to point out that it is not working at all, because landowners and advertisers dig their heels instead of cooperating (quelle surprise!), and because the handful of bylaw enforcement officers can’t handle the volume. Hence #4.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Because landowners and companies aren’t cooperating or the City bylaw officers aren’t/weren’t doing their job? Seems since illegalsigns.ca sprouted, the officers are doing a better job, so obviously they were slacking before.
    Also, the industry for the most part has been pretty cooperative, so I don’t know why you’re asserting that the industry is “digging its heels”.
    Great deflection tactic on the part of the City of Toronto. Blame the advertisers not the enforcement! :P

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    Seems since illegalsigns.ca sprouted, the officers are doing a better job

    Cite, please. Also, a better job can still be insufficient.

    so obviously they were slacking before

    This does not follow from the premises. If the city hired an auditor instead of relying on Mr. Tabello’s pro bono labour, then bylaw enforcement could also improve. N people plus an auditor doing any task requiring more than N people will always be more effective than N people alone, regardless of whether “slacking” occurs.
    I claimed that IllegalSigns is evidence of a volume of work in bylaw enforcement beyond the capacity of the current staff. You offer the alternative explanation of “slacking” but make no attempt to refute my claim, i.e. show that IllegalSigns is not evidence of an excessive volume of work.

    the industry for the most part has been pretty cooperative

    I think my phrasing better characterizes seeking legal injunctions to delay or stop bylaw enforcement…but that is a proposition undecidable except by a third party.

    deflection tactic

    This implies that there was a chance of ineffective bylaw enforcement being publicized, which the city perceived as being embarassing and chose to address by drawing attention to the activities of advertisers.
    But no bylaw enforcement would necessary if there were not a (justifiable) expectation that advertisers would not comply with existing bylaws.
    Thus any discussion of bylaw enforcement, effective or ineffective, must acknowledge the root cause for bylaw enforcement, viz. the noncompliance of advertisers.
    It is more appropriate to say that promoting a primary focus on the remedial measure of bylaw enforcement and its (in)effectiveness deflects discussions about the root cause, viz. advertiser noncompliance.

    on the part of the City of Toronto

    Initiation of this issue lies not with the city but with people such as Mr. Tabello. By highlighting advertiser noncompliance, they influence bylaw enforcement. As a reaction to bylaw enforcement (or the current process of drafting a new bylaw), advertisers move to protect their business interests by, among other things, raising the irrelevant question of the efficacy of the city’s enforcement.
    I pasted this link earlier: http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/ It makes very good reading.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    “This does not follow from the premises. If the city hired an auditor instead of relying on Mr. Tabello’s pro bono labour, then bylaw enforcement could also improve. N people plus an auditor doing any task requiring more than N people will always be more effective than N people alone, regardless of whether “slacking” occurs.”
    I totally agree with you. I guess where we differ is that I think we need (better) enforcement not a disparaging tax could have a horrible outcome for the city which is our community.
    “This implies that there was a chance of ineffective bylaw enforcement being publicized, which the city perceived as being embarassing and chose to address by drawing attention to the activities of advertisers. ”
    Yes, this is what I’m implying. Seems fairly logical to me. Illegal signs didn’t seem to get a lot of cooperation (when they first surfaced), it was only AFTER Rami started receiving PRESS that the city (seemingly) started to react. This can easily be perceived as I have, that the city is covering their a$$.
    If a law is not being enforced (such as marijuana) who’s fault is that? The cops or the weed smokers for ‘non-compliance’?
    Compliance works two ways my friend… Putting the entire onus on the advertisers isn’t helpful, as the root cause (IMHO) is the (previous) lack of enforcement.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Sorry Paul, the reply button either didn’t work or I’m just really tired.

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    The other unexplored option is making signage of any kind legal on private property, thereby eliminating the need for enforcement. I for one would be happy to have a giant animated Guess jeans model dancing on my roof.

  • http://undefined Solex

    All Arabs may not be terrorists, but most landlords of business buildings in Toronto have become allowed to be greedy bastards whose ‘concern’ for the properties they own only comes up as soon as somebody puts art that they don’t like on the side of their buildings, or any other threat to how much money they can gouge out of tenants. Why aren’t these ‘nice people’ concerned about how the city looks when these illegal signs are posted? Why don’t they truly care about the businesses that are tenants of their properties and not be such gougers (Pages and any other business that actually give something to Toronto) so that they can flourish?
    Because being greedy and full of shit is easy when they have a paycheck from these companies that put up illegal signs. That way, they can whore themselves out to chains like Subway and Pizza Pizza and let them set up shop rather than decent businesses like Pages.
    But now that this bill might be passed, they’ll all have to start worrying. And maybe clean up their act.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    ***FACESMASH

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping