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The Post is reporting that talks are currently underway with Starbucks to rent the former home of J & J Fruit Market—on the corner of Augusta and Nassau and thus smack-dab in the heart of Kensington Market. Some Market residents who the Post interviewed were unsurprisingly ready for a fight, and, as the property is partially on city land, Adam Vaughan has said that it will require neighbourhood approval anyway and will become a "very public and pitched debate." That, and he wants Kensington composed of "small, family-run businesses.” So: probably not gonna happen. The winning serve comes from i deal coffee owner James Fortier, who tells the Post that he has no issues with Starbucks coming; he just thinks that the big chain won't make any money if they do. There's the rub: if, by some miracle, Starbucks gets its wings and opens up shop in Kensington, against the violent protests and certain vandalism from the locals, it could still only survive as long as customers' demand for it did.
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I've gone into the Kensington Loblaws exactly once. (I was desperate to find a pre-made pizza crust, and I'd already checked virtually every other local shop. As it turns out, they carried nothing of the sort, either.) The place was empty. This was in the middle of a Sunday afternoon. I was literally the only customer in the store. The one person working there seemed genuinely surprised to see me.
Well, I'm lining up with the Moonbeam and we will reign hellfire vente styles...
But seriously...sadly, we can try to rail against this kind of thing but it's all up to the building owners...look what happened with the Freshwood Grill.
"That, and he [Vaughan] wants Kensington composed of "small, family-run businesses.”
There is something terribly wrong when some puffed-up city councillor thinks he has the power to determine the business mix in the ward he serves.
I'd like to see it happen just to see in those who patronize the market are as doctrinare as the post and the first commenter believe. (If (1)'s anecdote about loblaws was representative, I don't see how they would still be in business. Its called a revealed preference, look it up).
In the end its just a fucking coffee house.
There's a Loblaws near Kensington?
That Valumart is garbage. It's filthy and has horrible selection. I don't understand how it stays afloat - I never see more than a couple of people in there. I also don't understand how half the stores in Kensington stay open - I never see them sell any of their junk and I'm in the market just about every day.
There are already lots of coffee shops in Kensington and a Second Cup at College and Augusta. The only way a Starbucks would survive is if people abandoned those places. I highly doubt they would.
Oh, and Vaughan can shove his attitude up his ass.
I`d love to be the only one in a Loblaws, no lineups, first choice of everything, best of all, no whiners!
Even though they're shutting them down all over the States, from my experience, there's no such thing as an unsuccessful Starbucks in this goddamn town.
Good luck, Kensingtoners.
it could still only survive as long as customers' demand for it did.
Exactly. Let the market decide. If area residents and visitors to the market are so adamant about not going to the Starbucks, then it will close down. Competition is good thing Councillor Vaughan.
^^bingo.
in theory, i think its horrible that a Starbucks opens in Kensington.
but...if Kensingtonites will be stupid enough to spend $4 on Starbucks' horrible tasting coffee/lattes, then let them. if they want to support Starbucks' shoddy environmental record, lack of recycling programs in stores and their use of non-organic beans, there is no way to stop them.
people will speak with their wallets. if Starbucks succeeds, then its the "evolution" of Kensington. you can't hold back an area's natural evolution. even if the progression is really regression.
I'm sure a starbucks would do great business on Pedestrian Sundays. Head to the Blue Banana for some clean, unsmelly boho goods, then over to starbucks for a coffee to walk around with while you watch, but not participate in, all the cool anti-car activities thinking, "What a great, authentic, culturally relevent community. They should really turn that old carpet factory into condos, don't you think? So we can all enjoy this authentic, artistic community."
Kensington will be Yorkville in less than 15 years.
...but the starbucks won't be the cause, just another signpost. The thing is, it's fate was decided a long time ago.
I spent more money on a coffee with Pennylicks than I've ever spent on Starbucks. Was it worth it? Not really - I'll probably not go there to have Clover coffee again. I'll stick with Manic.
Would I go to Starbucks in Kensington though? Maybe. Depends on their hours and if everything else was closed. Would others go there? Hmm... tough question - I have a feeling Starbucks would pull people from the 2nd Cup and Chinatown, so they might actually be successful. Kengsingtonites obviously wouldn't go there.
Ahh... I can smell the dead fish right now.
People who live in Kensington might not go there, but people who just go to shop or hang out would and then word would spread "there's a Starbucks just over there" and more people would be drawn in.
So, basically, you're worried that people who aren't in Kensington might go into Kensington... or am I not getting your point again?
I don't know that the point about a Starbucks' survival being linked to demand is valid. If it's able to run at a loss for a while, all it would need to do is deflect enough business to squeeze out the smaller operators who can't afford to run at a loss for as long, then reap the rewards once they're gone (probably cannibalizing a few locations in the process).
Gentrification of the Blue Banana kind is inevitable, but it's not actually displacing anything, just adding another facet to the Market. Starbucks, on the other hand, would not coexist with its competitors.
^^as a fan of Toronto's independent espresso shops, i disagree. should we ban Starbucks alltogether because Toronto consumers don't know or don't care to know the difference between an OK coffee and an amazing coffee?
Mercury Espresso is a great example. great lattes. they get a decent line-up going there. and you walk outside and there's a Starbucks a half block away. and that Starbucks is busy.
why go to Starbucks when you have a superior product across the street? because those who enjoy Starbucks couldn't give a shit about the superior product. they want Familiar, they want Recognizable. this is how McDonalds et al. made their kajillions of dollars.
so should we actively prevent this from happening in Kensington?
In my hood, I go to Ellington's for good coffee. Sadly, they open long after I leave for work, so it's Starbucks in the morning.
You think I want to ban non-residents from Kensington? And why would I be worried, hasn't it be firmly established that I hate and fear the poor and working classes and want to destroy their way of life with gentrification? Stop trying to start shit.
This will mean the eventual demise of one of Toronto's (or North America's for that matter) most unique, historical and interesting neighbourhoods.
The Market is known for this uniqueness and the introduction of some store that can be found anywhere on the planet undermines this. It's not like some other area, like a Parkdale or a Little Italy that can easily absorb a Starbucks and still maintain a cohesive feel.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for competition but not of the type that jeopardizes the area's aesthestic...
A vote for Starbux is a vote for homogonization. Pure and simple. Sure, thanks to the concept of the franchise almost any area of North America is indestinguishable from any other one - does supply and demand HAVE to underwrite EVERYTHING? Can't the concept of community have a say?
What do you think the reason everyone goes to Kengsington is anyway? If they wanted to a Starbux, an H+M and a Le Chateau they could go to either Queen Street or the Eaton Center.
Shit, remember when Queen Street was interesting? Now if basically indestinguishable from the Eatone Center. Lets stop Kengsington from being next shall we?
Starbucks is trying to survive as a business, just like any other shop in Kensington. If they think there's an opportunity to make some money in Kensington Market, then who are you to say they can't.
And with regards to the poster reading:
"The arrival of Starbucks will undoubtedly create a chain of disproportionate rental increases, thereby making it impossible for current or future independent business to thrive",
Sorry, but the reality is, as more people move into a city, rental costs go up. If you can't afford to pay rent, then move somewhere where you can afford it.
Starbucks setting off a hypothetical rental hike across the neighbourhood has nothing to do with the city's population increasing, and everything to do with whether that rent increase would be greater than what would otherwise have been expected. Rent goes up, everyone knows that, but you completely missed the point.
oooo.. So, the rent in Kensington Market will increase more than "expected".
My point is, this is reality. It's an "expected" rate because it is not set in stone. Rates will change.
Starbucks is only thinking of opening a store in Kensington because the area is becoming more and more a popular destination. More tourists (shoppers) usually results in higher prices.
I didn't miss the point.
Isn't rent in Kensington ridiculously high to begin with?
That's the impression I've always had anyways.