January 27, 2006
When Motorists Attack: Road Rage in the Market
Disturbing news from CityNoise, where a motorist and a bike courier got into a heated exchange and physical altercation in the Market. The story, as it is known to Torontoist, goes like this:
...the driver threw a bunch of garbage out the window, the courier picked it up and threw it back in. He got out and threw coffee on her, she keyed the car. He proceeds to stomp on her bike and then hit her before bystanders pull him away.
Scooped from Darren J of BikeRefugee, the event was parlayed to Torontoist as an example of low tolerance in the biker-motorist relationship - although we think this is a rather extreme example. There was some unverified talk of a baseball bat and police involvement, but we will refrain from commenting on that which we are unsure of (this time).
Perhaps the cramped streets of Kensington should be reserved for pedestrians only?
The photos were taken by hool of CityNoise, who left the scene unharmed.
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and i just saw that that aggro driver came at the photographer with a BASEBALL BAT.
wow.
great link!
and even greater website. thanks.
Dude threw coffee on her? What a jerk.
Throwing the garbage back at him might have been a bit much, but certainly doesn't warrant tossing hot liquid in retaliation.
People need to CHILL.
i live on augusta at baldwin, and this is the second fight i have seen at that corner in the past 3 months... cr cr crazytown
This is not a good example of low-tolerance in the biker-motorist relationship (which I do belive exists). This is a great example of pig-heads who litter from their cars and how they respond to well-deserved criticism of their actions. They respond poorly. I don't know if it is out of the shame of being caught or just plain arrogance.
I once honked at someone who threw a pop can out their window. He proceeded to chuck a full can of Coke at my car and tried to follow me home. Thank god I can drive like James Bond. An excessive response if you ask me.
dude. if any of you hear or see events like this one, you should post them as comments on that citynoise link.... id love to follow this. i hear from friends that it happens frequently in kensington.
They're both fucking morons, and shouldve been allowed to fight it out.
Ok, not really, as violence wouldn't solve anything. But seriously, they both need to get over themselves. Yes, he's a prick for littering. She's also a prick for chucking it back in his car, as opposed to just verbally calling him on it, or better yet, reporting his plate to the authorities. They DO follow up on this; in my less enlightened days, I was contacted by the police due to a similar report. Cleared up my behaviour, let me tell you. It's not her job to police litterers.
Both pricks.
HAHAHA
Brokenengine is on point.
Well played homeboy.
We aim to please over here! ;)
I am actually SERIOUSLY considering running for Town Council. I figured I can't bitch and complain without offering to put my own ass on the line.
My first order of business will be to propose (and, I'm sure, fight to make) the market go Car-Free (with the exception of delivery vans/trucks). It makes no sense to have cars in there.
Why not give trash back to the litterers? The world isn't their trashcan, and anything that shames them into acting like better citizens, the better. Since the litterer owns the garbage (they paid for whatever product was in it), it's only right that it's given back to them if they "drop" it.
Because the act of throwing it back in their car is an aggressive act. Aggression begets aggression. Since the person is a meathead enough to litter in the first place(and again, you're speaking to the reformed here), violence should not have been a surprise.
Since I would think the avoidance of violence is the ultimate aim of all concerned citizens, acting aggressively is not a viable solution to the problem. And again, who made it this bike couriers job to police the litterer? She did. Therefore, it's her fault she got into a confrontation.
Above, I suggested alternate solutions...
what an asshole! ban cars from Kensington... ban SUVs... ban assholes!
But only aggressive if the garbage actually hit the driver. If she just tossed it into the car, then the driver is really the instigator by splattering the biker with coffee. Alas, we don't know if the garbage came into contact with said driver.
Golden rule: Mind your own business.
Golden Rule Ammended: Tell on people in an annonymous way.
I don't know if I like either rule.
This is why I don't do the commuting thing anymore, driving brings out the absolute worst in people. I don't know what it is about car drivers, they think they are entitled to trash and monopolize every inch of the city. Bastards!!!
I can honestly say that this story scares me more then any gun violence story. Looking at those pictures, with that guy being so violent and brute...ohmigod I would probably break out crying if that ever happened to me.
she keyed his car. She asked for it.
good point, alice. the cash value of the altercation up to the point of the keying was negligible (laundry?), but keying a car is over the top.
i have shamed people into picking up their litter many times verbally, it works -- even if they don't pick up their crap, it brings the act into their awareness
The residents of Kensington should have mobbed his car like zombies, torn the man from limb to limb, used his remains as matierial for handicrafts and organic compost and used his car in a communal auto share type program.
Throwing the garbage back in his car and keying his car may have seemed excessive - but there's a part of me that admires the courier for doing that. Kensington Market is my neighbourhood and I'm there every other day... Today as I walked home with my groceries I went by a trio of guys who were eating something or other and watched as the tallest one chucked a bag with food wrappers in it on the ground against Fresh Mart. I really wanted to yell at him like a mom and embarrass him into picking it up, but I was too hestitant and didn't want to cause a scene. So I picked it up and put it in the garbage, but I'm still pissed off. Next time though, THAT'S IT, I swear... But probably not. Damn you litterers!
Fact is, most of Kensington's businesses don't want the market to go car free. It's hard to take deliveries without cars and trucks.
Spacing, I think, wrote about it. They drew comparisons to Montreal's Prince Arthur St., which was once a bustling market but was transformed into a dead toursit strip thanks to a car free status.
Dude just smoke some reef and have a drum circle. Newsflash: Kensington Market is the worst place in the world. So dirty, so annoying, smells like hippies. It needs to get gentrified and fast. Get Nike to put that Presto place back in. ASAP.
This kind of stuff does happen every day because pedestrians and bike riders waltz through intersections with a palpable sense of entitlement and SNAP when they get taken to task, and car drivers, (being assholes to begin with) foolishly think that the rules of the road apply in Kensington. I'm glad I moved away from Kensington. I say pave over the whole damn thing and drop a Wal-Mart in the middle.
Have you ever noticed that all hippies are white?
Yes keying his car may have provoked the rage but throwing hot coffee at her compelled her to retaliate too, I looked at the other sequence of pics, good thing there were other bystanders around to pull him away from her or she may have been seriously beaten up. What a tough man, he must be almost a foot taller than her!! I remember almost being struck by a vehicle while crossing the street and gave it a swift kick as a reminder that there was a human crossing the street, the vehicle abruptly stopped and the driver was outraged and swearing at me, it's amazing how drivers react when their poor little vehicle gets a parting shot as a result of their road warrior antics.
all torontoist commenters are white
"Throwing the garbage back in his car and keying his car may have seemed excessive - but there's a part of me that admires the courier for doing that. "
I must admit, me too. But she shouldn't have been surprised by my reaction, thast what i was saying.
Hmm.. I just now read this whole thing was fake/staged.... see one of the threads here. It refers to a post by "Hool" in another forum
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248712&page=1&pp=15
this would be a very elaborate hoax if it were staged. who would go to such lengths to get in the toronto sun?
here's the update from the posting referenced above:
"wait a sec this is confusing I just noticed something in the detail of the hool username. one is spelt h00l and the other is hool. One uses zeros and the other uses o's. So this is not the same username. oh crap is this story real or fake?"
i think all charges of fakeness were done under a fake name - making it doubley fake. two fakes make a true?
It looks staged to me. I can't explain what looks wrong, but it just looks like they're posing to me. The expressions of rage look like acting, and it just doesn't look natural.
Whoa!! An amendment here is necessary!
"But she shouldn't have been surprised by my reaction, thast what i was saying."
Should say "HIS" reaction, not "mine"! It wasn't me, I swear! I have an alibi! YOU'RE NOT GONNA PIN THIS ON ME COPPA!!! YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE, SEE?!
I was an eye-witness to this fight. I just want to say that I walked onto the scene and so missed the first half. I didn't know what was happening but only heard shouts and screams. The guy was driving a white car and he was out of his car with his gf yelling at the cyclist. Then a car beeped him to move his car out of the middle of the road, so he got in, sped aroundt he corner, parked, got his jacket on, then proceeded back to the scene. There he went running, looking for the cyclist through the cars. She was on her bike, getting ready to shove off and he grabbed her wheel and pulled it up and tried to shake her off the bike. At this point, I lost my view through the crowd but could hear the shouting. The gf finally came back over and I think (not sure) convinced the guy to go. I didn't see him hit her (the cyclist) or anything and there was definitely NO baseball bat. All I remember hearing was the cyclist yelling "get out of the market, go back to Woodbridge," which I thought was.. pretty funny. The whole scene was very unnerving and unpleasant to watch. The cops arrived, late.
Car drivers aren't all littering assholes, and cyclists are far too self righteous in this city. The cyclist in this story is wearing a helmet and appears to just be trying to keep the market clean, but fuck it bothers me when cyclists act like cars are evil. I have never in any other city seen such irresponsible, un-safe bicycle riders as here. Wear helmets and stop trying to piss off cars, and stop making up your own traffic rules. If you're going to gain the respect of traffic, you'd better stop running lights and riding on the sidewalk.
That driver is a jerk. Pretty much started the thing in the first place, and then made it escalate. Of course the cyclist should probably have taken the Ghandi approach, but sometimes the neo-cortex just flies out the window and impusle thinking takes charge.
"Go back to (insert 905 town here)!" is becoming a very popular insult.
"Fact is, most of Kensington's businesses don't want the market to go car free. It's hard to take deliveries without cars and trucks.
Spacing, I think, wrote about it. They drew comparisons to Montreal's Prince Arthur St., which was once a bustling market but was transformed into a dead toursit strip thanks to a car free status."
Mike, do you have a link for this? Or an issue number? I'm intrigued by this stance - as far as I 'm aware, everybody knows that you can go 'car free' efficiently by still allowing loading and unloading - usually at set times. European cities are chock a block with pedestrian only areas, in fact, they're much preferred.
FYI: Leah (the cyclist, and mama) posted her response here:
http://www.citynoise.org/article/2770
her response is about 1/2way down the page.
The article about PSKensington and deliveries and all that was in the eye, August 5th, 2004, by Misha Glouberman. It has been reprinted in uTOpia recently. There's some merit to it, although the point made earlier about set loading times is also notable.
Basically I think two things have to be kept in mind-- one, we don't live in Europe. As much as we like to distance ourselves from our southern neighbours, Canadians still have one of the largest ecological footprints in the world, on par with the states (and by some accounts, larger). There's a different sensibility here than Europe. I'm not saying that's good (or bad, necessarily, in other ways), but that it's there.
Two, a lot of the people who make use of Pedestrian Sundays aren't marketdwellers. This is cool in a whole lot of ways(!), but it has also bred a certain degree of ownership and entitlement in a large group who don't have to live with particular realities of the area and what it is to exist there. While it's something that we ought to look into, I think there are a lot of responsibility issues that are often glazed over.
Ummm, yeah. That SUV driver is a total dork. And his gf with her ugly white vest... they're totally 905ers.
I can't say who's right or wrong, but I gotta give credit to the courier who completely stood her ground.
Anyone here have an ACTRA Face-to-Face account? I do, and I can tell you right now that Mr. 905's gossamer-vested girlfriend is Liza Kruester, a struggling local actress whose flimsy list of credits include episodes of Katts & Dog, Andromeda and a couple of Brafasco industrial videos.
I'm not buying this shit.
Also, the 905 cop-out is getting really tired.
A great Torontonian should respect his/her outer limits.
If this is street theatre, I am compelled to ask...
But Is It Art?!
So I've been following the back and forth on this attack both here and on Citynoise (which seems to have closed comments - durn!).
Here's my big picture view after cycling in Toronto for the last 20 years.....
Rather than look at all the details in this incident we'd do better to look at big patterns that repeat....yes, cyclists get pissed off at all the ignorant things that car drivers do and car drivers exist in a brittle metal bubble that when pricked....
but the real pattern is that for every action there's ...wait for it...and identical action. Yell at someone, they yell back. Toss something ....big surprise they toss back and so on.
After doing this myself for years and still finding cars parked in bike lanes, cars making right turns without signalling I tried something sneaky.
It's based on wanting the outcome to happen...not be justified in my anger...or righteous...but to somehow change an outcome successfully. I don't do it right each time but the times I have it's worked. For example.
Car turning right without signalling and endangers cyclist:
I ride up to the driver's window (zen, zen, zen) and instead of shouting obscenties say....Excuse me, I think one of your tail lights is burnt out...when you signaled before you turned...nothing happened...I didn't know you were turning and you almost ran me down.
Outcome: Car driver (with face saving out - burned out light) actually APOLOGIZES and hopefully signals next time.
Likewise I've developed a little trick for getting cars out of bike lanes ... I used to yell at them and have ugly battles as they waited to pick someone up....now I stop at the driver's window and kindly give them the head's up - a block back there's two bike cops clearing out the bike lane by giving $100 tickets....car drivers actually THANK ME FOR THE HEAD'S UP and clear out before the "bike cops" show up.
Both times I could have chewed out the driver, been totally right and found myself in a verbal argument or worse.
I'm no pro at this....I recently dropped my bike in front of a cellphone using cabbie who nearly took me out....interestingly he wouldn't roll down his window to talk with me....because he saw my rage and said "he was afraid I'd hit him". No zen moment with him but for less impactful cases I'm trying to get more yoda like by the day.
Ride on.
-Dabusan
We need more people like that cyclist... willing to stand up for whats right, admited keying the car was a bit much but that motorist is a danergous, uncaring individual for what he did to the environment and her... he should be made to work picking up litter for a few months... police supervised
front page news on the star, for all those who believe it to be street theatre.
I applaud the lady for doing something but calling him out would have been better. She could got seriously injured had the dork went postal. Like someone else has said, write down his number and have the cops pay him a visit. That's why we pay taxes. Plus, I like the way "Dabusan" handles motorists. The photos are great and they captured the moment. I hope this motorist gets alot flak from his co-workers. You cyclist, becareful out there. Ride safe
I grew up in the market (my family has been here since the late 60's) and worked as a courrier for 5 years. In the time I spent with courriers I noticed many of them seem to carry an unproductive sense of entitlement and a huge chip on their shoulders. Driven by the need to make another $2.50, very few of them observe the law or even practice safety. Smashing a cab's side mirror is seen as an honourable action.
The cyclist in question assaulted a motorist and got everything, with the exception of the martyr status, she deserved.
On the flipside, had someone taken down the motoritst's plate or had a cop been there to charge this idiot to the fullest, it would have made for a much easier pill to swallow. Maybe the courrier will think before acting. Rage, it seems, helps no one.
It looks like one self-absorbed, highly politicized cyclist crossed paths with a self absorbed and short fused minivan driver.
regardless of who did what to whom and why, both have broken the peace, neither one would listen to the other, and in the middle of all the aggression that was flowing back and forth, we managed to be entertained by the sheer stupidity.
Given: Litter is bad. yep, litter sucks. Do you want to do something about it? Pick it up and put it in the garbage. Report the litterer. Then do it equally for all offenders. Go to chinatown at closing time. yell at the shopkeepers who don't clean up. hand cigarette butts back to smokers why don't you? There is a significant form of litter... Just because you ride a bicycle you are not automatically "morally superior" regardless of how self-impressed you may be.
The driver? inexcusable. RAISING YOUR HANDS to a woman? beneath contempt. I know that small women can be irritating ;} Never mind hitting her, simply calling the police and having her charged with assault would be sufficient. Dangerous driving? Interfering with a driver is a risky proposition. What would have occured if he hit another vehicle or person while she was busy voicing her political position? Is causing an accident or a pedestrian injury justified? Do none of these people look beyond the ends of their noses at what may occur as a result of their childish schoolyard games?
1. Who blatantly litters on a crowded street and thinks no one will notice?
2. She has balls for giving it back.
3. He has NO balls for attacking a woman!
Good points Huckster.
I think this situation is being way over analyized and going into realms of things that will never ever change. I think the issue is smaller than that. I think the issue is the dude. This guy is a just an idiot who breezes through life thinking he owns the world. Hopefully getting his picture on the cover of the star attacking a woman will make him realize how much of a goofball he in fact is.
It is a shame for a great country like Canada and people is not take care of their own city.
It is about time for City Official to make a rule for the litterer, charge them or give them a fine Doesn't have to be monetary, can be a punishment to clean the city for a week.
Beside that is a shame for a man to fight a women
Where is your manner as a man.
I witnessed this madness. The woman in the black vest was standing in front of me at the fruit store and bolted when the cyclist started screaming for help.
First, was the driver and the passenger (the Blonde woman) who get out of their car and stop traffic, exchange words and food with the cyclist.
He drove off like a bat out of hell and returned to the spot! That's when he got out of his car and started to assault the cyclist and her bike. The Blonde was yelling "IT'S AN EXPENSIVE CAR!" That justifies the assault I suppose.
I'm seeing all this stuff on "she deserves it" and she handled it wrong on various sites but... VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN! HELLO? This man was mad agressive and violent. I can only imagine how he treats the Blonde woman on a daily basis. The loser got a bat out of his car after the crowd let him go. I was on the street with my friend and yelled "OH NO! YOU'RE NOT GETTING A FUCKING BAT!" The Blonde took it away from him and put it back in the car. How this loser was not charged is beyond me. He was completely willing to use that bat, I'm sure. This whole incident was disgusting. That loser's face is all over the net. I wonder how many other women he has assaulted.
Huckster & Dabusan, I applaud you. Good points.
For the record, I am also in the "Violence against women is inexcusable" camp. But I also seem to be one of the very few people in the "Violence against ANYONE is inexcusable" camp.
Fact: In Canada, spitting on someone is considered assault and is a chargeable offence. What do you suppose throwing garbage in a moving car window is?
Once again, I think this is just two people who were unable to see past their own noses, being stupid. If I were to choose "Who's the bigger jerk" I would choose him, but that would remind me too much of our recent election, so I abstain...
I've so wanted to do that - Way to go Girl!
Maybe the pig will think twice about throwing trash about.
Typical Toronto crap. A more miserable, insufferable bunch of people you'll never meet.
What about that snaggle tooth?
snaggle toothed oozes the juice of caption
This dirty filthy blunt got exactly what he deserved .
In fact she deserved more. I should be anally raped for the camera. Now that would be good reading.
Regardless, I love filthy fat fucks.
Why are any racist comments towards blues are tolerated on this page? While any comment on the snaggle toothes that are ruining this city are quickly erased?
to the racist heroes of the this comment board:
leave me alone. i've never edited comments but i will keep editing yours until you stop commenting.
LOL That guy needs some serious downers. Talk about a lowlife, he litters and then assaults her. Plus it was caught on camera, talk about luck. It is important to keep in mind that yah he got caught littering, but how many do not. He really should have just sucked it in and put the trash in the bin. He has some serious anger issues, just look at that facial expression. I can reccomend a shrink if that guy wants to get something off his chest.
WTF? Um...
Most likely I am a shiny piece of trash.
How typical in Toronto- heat the city because those left wing city commies told me i'm 'special'. I hope he enjoyed his mashing. I hope he gets more. In fact I pretty sure she will get more.
It's nice how you fucking bitches TRY to make my post look like I support BUTT! you fucking morons are too stupid due to cheese to do a good job at it.