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politics

Live Blog: Fact-Checking the Provincial Leaders’ Debate

Follow along as we evaluate the claims made by Tim Hudak, Kathleen Wynne, and Andrea Horwath during the provincial election debate.

Tonight during the second provincial leaders’ debate, Ontario’s three major parties will share their plans to boost the province’s faltering fortunes. The June 12 general election comes at a time of stalled productivity and job losses, particularly in Ontario’s formerly mighty manufacturing sector.

The campaign of Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak has earned a great deal of attention thus far—particularly on social media—but not all of it has been favourable: many have reacted negatively to his plans to cut 100,000 public sector jobs and reduce taxes on corporations. Premier and Liberal party leader Kathleen Wynne has campaigned mainly on her recent budget, which both opposition parties refused to support. New Democratic Party Leader Andrea Horwath has made waves by pitching a decidedly populist message, one that has angered many NDP loyalists, particularly in Toronto.

Coming into the debate, many polls suggest a close race between the Liberals and PCs for the popular vote, with the NDP significantly behind in third. Of course, how that will translate into actual seat totals is unclear. Tonight’s debate may well sway undecided voters—according to an Ipsos Reid survey published yesterday, roughly 40 per cent of voters will decide which party to support only once the debate is over.

As the debate proceeds, we’ll be on-the-fly fact-checking the statements and claims made by the candidates in order to provide more context and establish what holds up. Statements that we judge to be outright wrong will get a FALSE rating, while half-truths and exaggerations will get a QUESTIONABLE rating.


7:56: Interestingly, Steve Paikin signs off the debate by telling viewers, “Even if you decline your ballot, we encourage you to vote.” Declining one’s ballot, or voting “none of the above,” is allowed in Ontario, and is counted separately from spoiled ballots.

7:53: Kathleen Wynne’s hand gestures make her look as if she is treading water, which is perhaps appropriate.

7:45: Tim Hudak claims he would freeze MPP salaries, while the other parties would not. In May the Liberals tried to pass this legislation, but it was blocked by the NDP and Conservatives. Hudak then pledged to freeze wages in late May. FALSE

7:43: Ontario spends almost $50 billion a year on health care. It hasn’t even been mentioned in this debate.

7:37: Tim Hudak, who has a masters degree in economics, says he’s good at math. Given his “Million Jobs Plan,” we rate this QUESTIONABLE.

7:33: Tim Hudak suggests that gas taxes only build transit, and only in certain parts of Ontario. According to the federal government, this is not true. FALSE

7:33: Kathleen Wynne takes a moment to pander to Colleen from Cobourg, who complained that she didn’t want to pay for Toronto transit. Cobourg, of course, is just like every other tiny little village in Ontario in that it would be a wasteland without the tax revenues Toronto generates, considering we generate about 40 per cent of all public revenue in this province, but no, it’s too tough for Colleen from Cobourg to maybe pay us back?

7:31: Tim Hudak, who refused to attend the northern issues debate entirely, complains that he’s tired of Horwath and Wynne pitting one part of Ontario against another.

7:30 “Dirty diesel” already runs constantly through all kinds of GTA neighbourhoods, as anyone who takes the GO train knows.

7:23: In her responses, Kathleen Wynne has sounded almost breathless at times. Her tenor is more hurried and frantic than her two opponents. Wynne’s response on transit is more controlled. Perhaps she is more confident on this file.

7:19: Andrea Horwath suggests that she can balance the provincial books and pay for new infrastructure investments with a 1% corporate tax hike. Corporate taxation collected approximately $12 billion in the interim 2012-2013 budget. A 1% corporate tax hike represents an additional $1 billion (approximately) per year – obviously nowhere near close to what Horwath is promising, considering the deficit is over $10 billion. FALSE

“You can only reduce spending by reducing spending”: the always quotable Tim Hudak.

7:17: Hudak, out of context: “Just because you say it over and over again doesn’t mean it’s true.” A good thing to remember.

7:16: Tim Hudak tells a long story about how his grandparents went bankrupt and it was humiliating, because a family is just like the provincial economy! Oh, wait, they’re nothing alike at all and in fact work on completely different economic principles.

7:14: Tim Hudak says “Dalton McGuinty” three times in the hopes that it works like the movie Candyman and McGuinty will show up and scream and scare all the voters into supporting the Tories.

7:13: Major provincial issues that have not been mentioned after 4 of 6 questions in this debate: immigration, social housing, aboriginal affairs, Ontario Works (welfare), disability supports, legal aid, student tuition.

“Taxes are the price we pay for looking after each other,” Kathleen Wynne, continuing her track record of running to Andrea Horwath’s left.

7:09: Horwath says that there’s no doubt Hudak’s “Million Jobs Plan” has a million math mistakes. An excellent line.

Ontario’s corporate tax rate is fourth lowest in Canada, after BC, Alberta, and New Brunswick. (It’s small business tax rate, though, is higher than every other province except Quebec and NB).

Every single stupid story where they meet some average person who tells them a story that illustrates some half-wit political lie: FALSE

7:04: Tim Hudak claims that if his plan doesn’t work, he will resign. Call us cynics, but: FALSE

7:02: Hudak states that he’s so confident in his “Million Jobs Plan” that he would resign if he doesn’t work. Which would eliminate another job, which is an interesting way to go about it.

7:02 Mathematical errors apart, there’s no evidence that the Million Jobs Plan will create “good jobs” vs minimum wage jobs. FALSE

6:59: Tim Hudak suggests that Ontario’s fiscal situation is comparable to Greece and Detroit. Greece, in 2012, had a debt-to-GDP ratio of about 161%. Detroit, in 2013, had a debt-to-GDP ratio of about 90%. Ontario’s debt-to-GDP ratio in 2013 was 37.4%. The situation is not remotely comparable. FALSE

6:58: Hudak compares Ontario’s fiscal situation to Greece and Detroit. Since governments are essentially bankrupt, this is quite the stretch. QUESTIONABLE

6:53: Hudak cites his “Million Jobs Plan,” and says that the province needs to downsize bureacracy. He takes a couple of minutes to mention that he will layoff 100,000 civil servants, leads the viewer to believe that there are 1.2 million provincial employees when there are fewer than that, and doesn’t spell out how this plan will work. Additional data from Statistics Canada shows Ontario has fewer general government workers and fewer health care workers, per capita. than any other province. Ontario ranks in the middle of the pack of people employed in crown companies; 342 people for every one employed in that sector. Alberta has the leanest crown agencies with 638 Albertans for every one working in the sector. FALSE

6:50: Oh, no! Massive industrial wind farms, says Hudak. How on earth will we survive?

6:48: Four minutes into a debate on energy policy, and no one has brought up the question of balancing the environmental costs of energy generation with the financial costs.

6:45-ish: Hudak repeatedly conflates the Oakville closure and the Mississauga gas plant closures; the Oakville closure came before the 2011 campaign. FALSE

6:40: Hudak characterizes the detailed criticism of his “Million Jobs Plan” as a simple disagreement among economists. It’s a lot more than that. Hudak’s assumptions counts each job eight times, assumes that each incoming worker contributes $27 million in economic impact, and that Ontario will enjoy nine to 10 per cent GDP growth over each of the next three years. His numbers aren’t just a disagreement among economists, they represent a disagreement with basic math. FALSE

6:39: Tim Hudak claims that the govermment’s purchase of the MaRS building “takes money away from health care.” While purchasing the building does come out of public funds, it’s not coming from money targetted for health care spending. QUESTIONABLE

6:35: Andrea Horwath says the Liberals are planning to bring in a “Harper-style Ontario pension plan.” Not sure what this means, but Horwath herself proposed the same plan in 2010.

6:33: While Horwath criticizes Wynne for wasting money on the gas plant cancellation, she doesn’t explain what she would do differently—all parties supported the cancellations at the time they were made.

6:31: Steve Paikin manages to avoid pointing out how many women are present tonight at this debate.

Comments

  • JohnfromTO

    If you’re “Not sure what this means,” then please don’t guess. There are TWO pension plans mentioned in the Liberal budget (ie: the OLP platform). One is a Harper-style private savings plan to be implemented this year. The other is the plan that Horwath proposed four years ago. The Horwath plan won’t be delivered until 2017, assuming the Liberals actually intend to implement a plan they unanimously opposed four years ago.

    • dsmithhfx

      ONDP partisan in da’ house!

  • you know my name

    I appreciate that Hudak tells far more lies than anyone else, but come on, not a single questionable statement from Wynne?

  • JohnfromTO

    Another point: Horwath’s infrastructure plan is the same as the Liberal infrastructure plan, with all the same revenue sources and assumptions, PLUS a corporate tax increase. This is because the NDP platform uses the Liberal budget as a baseline, and adds onto it. And so if you’re calling BS on Horwath, you must also call BS on the Liberals, who make the same claims but don’t have an additional $1 billion in corporate tax money available.

    • OgtheDim

      You know you picked the short straw for partisan debate night duty when they stuck you on responding to a fact check on a region focused web site.

    • tomwest

      Howarth was claiming she can do the infrastructure *and* balance the budget with $1bn extra per year. One is possible, but not both.

  • dsmithhfx

    Steve Paikin epic fail, disturbing trend.

    • OgtheDim

      A trend perhaps?

      • dsmithhfx

        Was there moderation this debate?

  • poniesinjudah

    Where’d my comment go?

    • bobloblawbloblawblah

      It was gravy….Rob Ford slurped it up.

  • sunbeamcatcher

    is this an anti Hudak blog? There is absolutely not one “FALSE” or “QUESTIONABLE” statement by Wynne ???

    • OgtheDim

      Personally, I didn’t watch it.

      Enlighten me on the specific porkies she told?

      Or are you on discrediting partisan duty tonight?

      • OgtheDim

        Crickets chirp

    • NayChan

      I think you need more CAPS locks.

  • OpportKnocks

    “While Horwath criticizes Wynne for wasting money on the gas plant cancellation, she doesn’t explain what she would do differently—all parties supported the cancellations at the time they were made”

    Yes they did, but the devil is in the details as any good fact checker knows:
    1. Initially Ontario Power Generation was negotiating the terms of cancellation, but that was soon moved to the Premier’s office. Why? Were the OLG lawyers not up to the task?

    2. The Premier’s office appointed a Liberal insider lawyer, Bob Pritchard, to take the lead in negotiations. Why? Was he the best qualified?

    3. The negotiations gave the hedge funds who financed the project, all connected to Washington-based EIG Management Co. $149-million, more than twice as much as they had put up for the project, Again, why so much

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/emails-reveal-prichards-role-in-ontario-gas-plant-talks/article12594997/

    4. After McGuinty resigns, someone remembers that they should scrub the computers in the Premier’s office to get rid of any email trail. Who directed this and why?

    So we taxpayers are to believe that all this was all done on the straight and narrow and the same bunch of Liberal “players” are no going to play us again.

    • OgtheDim

      I suppose the details would include who involved in that sordid mess is still involved with Wynne at the premier ‘s office?

      Not excusing what was done, but is it the same bunch?

      It’s possible to connect Hudak to Harris through Deb Hutton.

      Less so Wynne to McGuinty or Horwath to Rae.

      • OpportKnocks

        Wynne has made no effort to have the finer details of the scandal ever see the light of day, quite the opposite. Perhaps she remembers the consequences of the Gomery Commission for Paul Martin.

        Then we have:
        Sandra Pupatello – Hydro One Chair
        Bob Pritchard – Still Chair of MetroLinx
        Greg Sorbara – Chancellor York U
        — none of these appointments are indicators of a dramatic shift toward a meritocracy.

        • JGHali

          Something of an aside, but are you suggesting that the provincial government appoints (honorary) university chancellors now?

          • OpportKnocks

            My bad, corrected.

        • OgtheDim

          True enough….although I don’t know of a single party that uses merit to pick people.

          Same as a lot of companies when picking employees/CEO’s.

          • dsmithhfx

            1. knows where the bodies are buried
            2. loyalty

          • TheSotSays

            Well you’d be likely to know about the party side of it. Some pack of losers obviously “picked” you.

          • NayChan

            Go back to the Sun comment section, where you will find the debate more to your maturity level. The toddlers may still be napping though. Amuse yourself outside for awhile, and for God’s sake, don’t forget to wear a hat

    • rich1299

      Hudak before the election was willing to spend over $2 billion he figured it would cost to cancel the gas plants, the fact the Libs did it for over $1 billion is a savings of sorts, a better outcome than expected so I suppose it could be argued the Libs handled it better than the OPG would’ve. Besides which the OPG are unaccountable.

  • BOBRACHA

    I wasn’t convinced by any of them with this debate. Still going to vote though.

  • Ricardo Henrique Tabone

    Unfortunately there’s more than 1 million idiots to vote for Hudak.

    • arbiterdrums

      And there is even more idiots that voted for McGuinty. Take your green energy act and shove it.

      • Ricardo Henrique Tabone

        Is McGuinty running again? And, I didn’t vote for him.

        • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

          Yes, as Kathleen Wynne stated in her acceptance speech, she plans to carry on the legacy of Dalton McGuinty. And that legacy just happens to be gross incompetence, endless waste of money and outright theft & corruption.

          • dsmithhfx

            And you see math-challenged Tim as “competent”?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            What I see is one party, the Liberals, who have proven themselves to be incompetent, corrupt liars. So I’m more than willing to give someone else a chance. If you’re political philosophy won’t allow you to voter Conservative, then for the love of God, please vote NDP or decline your ballot. Rewarding the bad behaviour of the Liberals by re-electing them just leads to more bad behaviour, as they’ve repeatedly proven.

          • dsmithhfx

            Tim’s discredited economic “plan” is frightening to a lot of people. Why can’t he admit he made a simple math error? Far from creating any jobs, he’s going to eliminate 100,000 well-paying jobs and rob Ontarians of badly-needed services at a time when the economy is still vulnerable. His tax cuts will only help the wealthy. Unless you are wealthy or a party hack, it doesn’t make any sense.

          • OgtheDim

            To admit error would be to do what Tory did. The right in the party never forgave him for not sticking to his principles.

            Hudak is going down or up with this.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            The province is going bankrupt, so it makes perfect sense to reduce the cost of government. And virtually nobody is going to lose their job. Hudak has repeatedly made it clear that most, if not all of the job reductions will come from retirement and people leaving their jobs, and based on the current rate of retirement and resignations, that is easily achievable.

          • rich1299

            Even if you believe Hudak’s not going to fire 100,000 public sector workers like he said he would and just wouldn’t replace 100,000 public servants that still means a significant reduction in public service especially with most of those job losses coming from the education sector. We’re constantly told we need to upgrade our skills to get the good new jobs and that our economy depends on well educated citizens. How will shrinking the educational opportunities for Ontarians help anything let alone our economy? The loss of 100,000 jobs will have significant spin off effects harming other businesses and workers.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            There are 1.2 million civil servants, so a reduction of 100,000 over 4 years works out to about 2% per year. You seem like a reasonable person. Do you really believe that a reduction of 2% will lead to Armageddon? As for cuts in the education sector, as the husband of an elementary school teacher, I know how much bloated waste and useless bureaucracy there is at the Ministry of Education, where they pay huge salaries to people like Wynne’s former Deputy Minister of Education, accused pedophile Benjamin Levin. Lots of cutting could be done there. Also, enrolment is declining, which would automatically reduce staffing. And finally, there is absolutely no need to have both a teacher and an ECE (early childhood educator) in the all day kindergarten classes. That was not in the original plan, and the Liberals only did it to win support from the teachers’ union. So having only an ECE in those classes would also lead to savings. All this without impacting the level of service being delivered. Bottom line, we can no longer afford to have the Liberals allow public service unions run the province for their own benefit, at our expense.

          • OgtheDim

            Its not legal for one ECE to be in a class of that size on their own.

            Research…it helps.

          • dsmithhfx

            Not tea baggers.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Then have 2 ECEs. It’s still cheaper than having an ECE and a teacher. But that would mean less union dues. Boo hoo!

          • OgtheDim

            Earth to paid for shill…the ECE’s are as likely to be unionised as not.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Earth to Liberal moron. Yes, but the dues wouldn’t go to the holy teachers unions and they’d still be cheaper.

          • TheSotSays

            “Paid shill” ??????

            Who do you figure is paying him Derp?

          • dsmithhfx

            Looking for work?

          • TheSotSays

            Why do you ask? Are you looking for someone to help you with your vocabulary?

          • dsmithhfx

            Why no, no I’m not.

          • TheSotSays

            You’ve been gone for two days Derp.

            The troller budget budget for your losing campaign must be getting tight if it can’t cough up two bucks an hour to cover you..

          • NOHUDAK#STANDUPFORCHILDREN

            Except Hudak’s model is to fire DECE’s and have a 1:20 ratio in the class. So the class sizes now are actually 26 + which means more classes will have to be created and renovated to accommodate the children. Then another teacher has to be hired (costs way more then an DECE.) So were looking at MILLIONS to role out his new Kindergarten plan. Not to mention how he’s putting the children’s safety at risk. He also wants more standardized testing which costs 50 million a year and he wants to raise tuition, and cut grants for post secondary. All the while making the rich richer! I VOTE NO HUDAK he is very dangerous for the future of Ontario!!!

          • NayChan

            There are not 1.2 million civil servants.

            http://behindthenumbers.ca/2014/05/12/behind-the-onelxn-spin-the-reality-behind-hudaks-100000-job-cut-promise/

            I suggest you start here. Then do your own research. You truly are wasting your time. Enjoy life. Stop being angry.

          • rich1299

            People do want to punish the Ont Libs its true, but no one wants to punish themselves as well by voting for the Hudak PCs and who knows where Horwath stands these days. I just don’t see a strong enough masochistic streak in Ontario citizens for a Hudak gov’t to get elected.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            On the one side we have the McGuinty-Wynne Liberals who have repeatedly lied to us (remember “not one penny in new taxes”), doubled our debt, lowered our provincial credit rating, lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs, doubled the cost of hydro with another 42% of hydro increases to come, and repeatedly wasted billions of dollars on E-Health, Ornge, gas plants and now the MARS building. On the other side, we have Tim Hudak, who has done nothing to harm us yet. Only a true masochist would vote Liberal.

          • dsmithhfx

            Um yeah, you know though: you’ve lied to us, repeatedly.

            Sorry but I can’t take your word for anything.

            Protip: stop hyperventilating, and find a more amenable audience. You’re efforts are wasted here.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            You finally said something I can agree with. Trying to argue with the mind-numbed robots on this site is a waste of time. Anybody who would support a party that has repeatedly lied to us (remember “not one penny in new taxes”), doubled our debt, lowered our provincial credit rating, lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs, doubled the cost of hydro with another 42% of hydro increases to come, and repeatedly wasted billions of dollars on E-Health, Ornge, gas plants and now the MARS building, is clearly a lost cause. And since the bulk of Liberal support comes from Toronto, it’s my suggestion that we split the province in 2. The area outside of Toronto will continue to be called Ontario, and we can work on getting our economic house in order without your socialist silliness. Toronto will became a province on its own, and will be known as Morontario. And when you go bankrupt, we won’t bail you out.

          • OgtheDim

            Anybody who thinks the Tories don’t lie to us is a partisan hack.

            And anybody who suggests that Liberal support is all in Toronto ain’t from the GTA.

            Yeah….you’re not from around here.

            Hope they paid you well.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            33 of the Liberal’s 53 seats are in the GTA. Even with the limited math skills of a typical Liberal, it must be clear to you that the GTA is their power base. But then again, you believe that Kathleen Wynne can spend us into prosperity, just like Bob Rae did.

          • OgtheDim

            Well, ignoring for the moment your whacked out idea that people who don’t support Hudak are Liberals and socialists (you really need to get outside your Republican/Democrat paradigm – we don’t work that way up here).

            So first you say”

            “…..I… live in the GTA (which I do by the way)”

            And then you say

            “The area outside of Toronto will continue to be called Ontario, and we
            can work on getting our economic house in order without your socialist
            silliness”

            And then you say

            “33 of the Liberal’s 53 seats are in the GTA….” to defend your screed about socialists in Toronto comments.

            BUSTED

            You have lost the plot man.

            Bill Davis

            Google him

          • TheSotSays

            “paradigm” seems like a pretty big word for a guy who can’t figure out what tense he should be using..

      • OgtheDim

        Ur assumption that people vote for the Libs based on supporting the Green Energy act is kinda weird.

        I get that you might live in a part of the province that cares deeply about that. And I agree that the Act has problems.

        BUT, most of the people who live in this province don’t live there, nor do they care. They are using a different calculus to decide who to vote for.

        Local politics does not translate to cross provincial politics.

    • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

      You can name call all you want, but given the Liberals record of gross incompetence and corruption, anyone who votes Liberal in this election requires serious psychiatric treatment.

  • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

    It’s funny how any comment critical of this site for their pro liberal bias gets deleted. Afraid of the truth?

    • tyrannosaurus_rek

      It’s funny how most of the comments critical of this site and/or article are coming from people who’ve never posted here before.

      • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

        And what does that have to do with the accuracy of my comment. Are you saying that only the regular, liberal-loving visitors to this liberal-loving site should be allowed to comment? The FACT is that Kathleen Wynne told numerous lies last night (there’s a shocker) and this so-called fact-checking page ignored every single one of them. And when I listed 3 of her lies in my comment, it was deleted. Regardless of whether I’ve posted here before, that’s still the truth.

        • tyrannosaurus_rek

          It strongly suggests an axe to grind and/or an employer’s agenda when half or a third of the comments fit the pattern.

        • OgtheDim

          Are you using swear words when you elaborate on those lies?

          • TheSotSays

            You know fully well that’s not relevant to anything. Smithfex comes here frequently all full of filthy words and invective and not a thing happens to him.

          • TheSotSays

            Ur a pompous little fart aren’t you?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            No, the strongest term I used was liar, and that’s simply an accurate adjective to use when describing Kathleen Wynne.

          • dsmithhfx

            Tell us about Tim’s “Million Jobs”. Any truthiness to it?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Following similar economic policies, Harris helped create over 600,000 jobs in his first 4 years, so I have no doubt that Hudak can create close to a million in 8 years. Lowering taxes has always worked to stimulate the economy. It worked for John Kennedy, Ronald Reagan and Mike Harris. All 3 created a huge job-creating economic boom by letting the people keep more of their hard earned money.

          • dsmithhfx

            Have some more kool-aid.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Well there’s a brilliant, fact-filled response to my factual statement! I know the truth hurts, but you really do need to wake up to reality.

          • dsmithhfx

            “my factual statement”

            You’re confusing “factual” with “opinionated” and “partisan”. Please don’t make that mistake again. Thanks!

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Like I said, those are proven, historic FACTS. You can rant and rave and name call all you want, but that doesn’t change the FACTS. I know it can be dangerous to challenge someone’s delusion, but I hope you can come through a return to reality without suffering too much psychological harm.

          • dsmithhfx

            All-caps don’t magically bestow credibility. Usually the opposite.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            You’re finally correct about something! All-caps doesn’t bestow credibility, they’re just my way of showing emphasis. But your inability to dispute any of my FACTS with actual facts of your own, as opposed to your inane comments, indicate to me that you can’t dispute them, either because you know they’re true, but can’t bring yourself to admit it, or because you lack the knowledge to dispute them. Lie my screen name says, the truth will set you free! Try it!

          • NayChan

            Dude, your buddy Tea Party Tim would not know Truth or Fact if it hit him upside the head. Oh hey, it did hit him upside the head, and he claimed everyone else is wrong and only he is right. Now who is looking like a foolish partisan hack? That’s right – you

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Yet another Liberal genius who thinks that insults trump facts. The level of discourse on this site indicates why it’s been so easy for the Liberals to fool the voters.

          • OgtheDim

            Given there are no facts to support your assumption that people who disagree with you are Liberal supporters, i find this particular comment rather humorous.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            You’re right. Only someone capable of thinking with some modicum of logic would ever think that people who rabidly defend everything the corrupt liberals do, with no concern for the actual facts, might be Liberal supporters. How foolish of me.

          • OgtheDim

            LOL…..you seriously think that people on here don’t go after the Libs.

            Oh wait……ur not actually on here before this article.

            Ur usaully to be found on US articles.

            Saying things like:

            “If Odumba wins, I will go broke, as will everyone else who is not a fundraiser or friend of Odumba’s.”

            BUSTED……..

            ur a partisan operative.

            And ur on here calling out people for only liking the Libs when you talk that crazy talk about Obama and CNN and leftists?!!?!?!

            LOL, how dumb do you think people on here are?

            Bye bye….

          • NayChan

            Rabid. Now there is an interesting word. What do you propose it means?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            By “rabidly defend”, I mean that you defend the McGuinty-Wynne Liberals regardless of the fact that they have repeatedly lied to us (remember “not one penny in new taxes”), doubled our debt, lowered our provincial credit rating, lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs, doubled the cost of hydro with another 42% of hydro increases to come, and repeatedly wasted billions of dollars on E-Health, Ornge, gas plants and now the MARS building. Kathleen Wynne could behead 50 children on the lawn of Queen’s Park, and you and your comrades here would find excuses to defend her.

          • NayChan

            I see association and self awareness are not part of your general intellect. No surprise I suppose.

          • dsmithhfx

            So Wynne is a “Hitler”, and we’re what, communists?

            Bit of a disconnect in your historical metaphors there.

            And you need to calm down your rhetoric. It ain’t helping your case, such as it is.

          • TheSotSays

            Yeah, the Liberal Party has been communist dominated ever since the “handsome” and “charismatic” Pierre (Fish Face) Trudeau frightened all the well intentioned classical liberals out of the party and over to join the neo-cons. Everyone knows that and it’s the main reason poor little Justin is such a joke.

          • NayChan

            Besides the huge errors in your post you left out the fact that Harris privatized and split up Ontario Hydro. The entire debacle you just pinned on the Liberals? You can thank the people that pay you to post here. You really should consider research. You picked the wrong forum to troll.

          • TheSotSays

            “Rabid”

            It’s a description that many people use to describe any marxist trollers who store eyeballs in their mouth.

          • dsmithhfx

            Do you know any “marxist trollers” ?

          • TheSotSays

            I know everything about you but the colour of your socks.

          • dsmithhfx

            No you don’t.

          • TheSotSays

            If anyone ever decides to write up your life story they’ll win the Giller Prize for Epic Human Tragedy.

          • dsmithhfx

            Nope. But do you know any “marxist trollers” ?

          • TheSotSays

            We’ll have to think of a title for the thing. “The Crooked Maid” is out, good old Dan Vyleta already deservingly won something for that one.

          • dsmithhfx

            You seem to want to add “misogynist” to your troll resume.

          • TheSotSays

            Well you know, one time as a teenager I felt I’d been unfairly treated and became a misogynist for two days. Two days isn’t enough, apparently, to give me official standing.

            But I’m sure that a ridiculous woman like you, looking out on the world, must think every male is a misogynist.

          • NayChan

            I see you edited your reply. I suppose you want me to get angry and insult you. Not going to happen. The best I can do is challenge you to Pistols At Dawn. Have your Firsts call on my Firsts. It my Firsts aren’t there, have then call on my Thirds. If the Thirds aren’t there the duel is off. Lazy buggers.

          • TheSotSays

            Oh, I edited the thing did I?

            Well that’s what they want you to do. It’s why they put the button there. “Push the Button and edit your stuff” is the message they hope to convey.

            Nevertheless I don’t think a “Pistols at Dawn” routine with you will work mainly for the fact that you don’t get up until noon and I don’t intend to stand out in front of NDP/Liberal Party headquarters for seven hours waiting for you.

            And as regards the trouble you’re having with your rabid Firsts and Thirds stop whining and do something about it. You likely know enough “lazy ******s” to replace them.

          • NayChan

            Aren’t you the little rebel.

          • TheSotSays

            “Rebel,” now there’s an interesting word.

            It does beg the question though of just whose authority you believe me to be rebelling against? It can’t be yours because at 2 bucks an hour from Warren KInsella, you don’t likely have a lot of authority. And I hope you aren’t so far gone as to think that eyeball will intimidate anyone.

            So what’s the deal, are you suffering delusions of grandeur or are you just another poor schlub who doesn’t really know what a rebel is? Rendered illiterate, I suppose, by a failed NDP/Liberal Party education system.

          • dsmithhfx

            You’re a lousy troll because: nobody understands wtf you are babbling about.

          • TheSotSays

            And you’re a lousy troll basically because you’re ideologically married to a load of clap trap.

          • NayChan

            That’s a mouth gramps. Put your glasses back on.

          • TheSotSays

            A mouth ???

            I’ll put it down as that if you like but it looks to me like a selfie of Kathleen McWhinntie’s rear end. Probably taken on the Queen Junction streetcar.

          • NayChan

            Brilliant reply. I’d give it a thumbs up, except here I am up before 12 noon. I feel like a million bucks after my all night disco dance party at the Communist League for Advanced Socialism. We were plotting World Domination but decided to give that up when we realized there would be no one to make our coffee. So we just hung around instead admiring each others shoes. It was magical.

          • TheSotSays

            The Communist League for Advanced Socialism you call it, and it runs a Friday night disco dance. That must be the one with world headquarters at the CBC and I must tell you since the word is out on the CBC, that one has become a bit of a joke.

            The one that bothers everyone is The Communist League for Advanced Universal Socialism (CLAUS for short – you know, as in Santa Claus) It’s headquarters are in a smoky hemp storage room in the basement at OISE and it figures if it can simply dominate Ontario K-12, the world will look after itself.

            It’s a stupid idea and although you and your eyeball may consider it “magical” the rest of us are intent on sawing it in half by taking it’s funding away and closing selling its Bloor Street training camp.

          • OgtheDim

            Oh, and can I just quote you on something from 2 years ago:

            Discussion on
            National Journal

            Obama Victory Comes With No Mandate

            TheTruthWillSetYouFree003


            2 years ago

            RIP America. The country we love is gone and it will never recover
            from 4 more years of Obama’s socialism. George Washington must be
            crying.
            *********

            Ur not from around here.

            So, ur facts are based on ……………..?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            So the fact that I have an interest in U.S. politics and a great admiration for that country means I can’t possibly live in the GTA (which I do by the way)? Are you for real? Not all Canadians define themselves by their dislike of the USA. And by the way, my prediction did come true, America has declined drastically under Obama’s McGuinty-Wynne style policies.

          • dsmithhfx

            “Obama’s McGuinty-Wynne style policies”

            So Ontario dictates U.S. policy?

          • OgtheDim

            Yup….BUSTED…….

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            “Obama’s McGuinty-Wynne style policies.”

            Go home, you’re drunk.

          • NayChan

            Yes, I must be a Liberal (emphasis on the L) if I disagree with the lies of the Conservative Party of Ontario’ talking head. Discussion ended. You won.

          • OgtheDim

            “Following similar economic policies, Harris helped create over 600,000 jobs in his first 4 years,”

            Uh..no. That would have been the late 90′s world wide recovery mostly fueled by debt.

            “Lowering taxes has always worked…..”

            Nope.

      • TheSotSays

        Are you related to NevilleRoss? I’ve seen him try to use that as a put down and I don’t get the significance. What difference does it make?

    • TheSotSays

      The positive side of it is that the word is out on the antics of all these prog fruitcakes and at the hands of finally informed voters, their time will soon be up

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    The Liberals under McGuinty (Ornge, eHealth, gas plant included) gave us a peck on the cheek compared to the hack-and-slash job Harris/Eves did and Hudak promises to revive.

    • you know my name

      So are you saying the Liberals should be allowed to continue their wasteful, and in some cases blatantly self-serving, spending of the public money? As a lesser evil, huh?

      • OgtheDim

        Given the 3 main parties are all going to waste money, in one way shape or form, the lesser evil as self defined is how we are all looking at this.

        The HST off electricity bills is going to cost us BILLIONS.

        The corporate tax cuts will do NOTHING for us and cost us BILLIONS.

        The continued reluctance on the Libs part to look at spending cuts is going to cost us BILLIONS

        Lesser evil is what we are left with.

      • tyrannosaurus_rek

        Did you see me say that?

        And are you under the impression the PCons have and would never waste money?

        • NayChan

          I know, it is insanity. The Conservative myth of being good with money is alive and well, despite all evidence to the contrary.

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    The closest thing to an unbiased account would be the verbatim transcript. All accounts are inherently biased.

  • dsmithhfx

    I think it’s pretty unbiased, considering Hudak comes across as a snake-oil salesman devoid of math skills, intelligence, integrity and charm, but makes up for it with evangelical zealotry and a kind of heart-breaking, dogged persistence in the face of chronic failure.

    YMMV.

    • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

      Okay, let me get this straight. Wynne steals $1.1 billion of my money to save a few seats in the last election, and then they delete 1000s of emails to cover it up, and Hudak is the snake oil salesman?! Yeah, that makes sense!

      • tyrannosaurus_rek

        Wynne did these things? Herself?

        • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

          I’m not sure which “things” you’re questioning tyrannosaurus, but if you’re referring to the theft of over $1 billion in the gas plant scandal to save a few seats in the last election, then the answer is yes, Wynne did these things. She was co-chair of the election campaign, and it was HER SIGNATURE on the document authorizing the cancellation.

          • OgtheDim

            “Theft of over $1 billion”

            You PCPO types keep throwing that out like its proven that somebody took that money. As has been indicated through the auditor, among others, most of that figure is going to the gas plant work in Napanee necessary to get electricity into the grid.

            i.e. The bulk of the money would have been spent no matter who cancelled the plants.

            Matt Elliot has a tweet about that:

            http://i.imgur.com/LTHeK4S.png

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            “On Oct 8, 2013 the Auditor-General reported the cost to cancel the Oakville plant at $675 million. The Auditor-General noted that had the premier’s office not become involved, the OPA may have been in a position to simply wait and then exercise an option to break the contract
            without penalty. The report estimated the Premier’s Office unnecessarydirective to make TCE “whole” increased the payout to TCE by $225 million over what was actually due under the terms of the contract.” The report estimated the Premier’s Office unnecessary directive to make TCE “whole” increased the payout to TCE by $225 million over what was actually due under the terms of the contract.” Since the reason that money was paid out was that the Liberals couldn’t wait until after the election, as far as I’m concerned, they stole that money to further their own political fortunes.

          • dsmithhfx

            They didn’t *steal* the money. They spent the money to achieve what both opposition parties vociferously demanded. Plenty of blame to go around.

            The email deletions smells funny, shouldn’t have happened, and is now the subject of a criminal investigation that may lead to charges.

            According to the police investigation, it took place before Wynne assumed office, and she had nothing to do with it.

            So saying she ‘stole’ anything is not only not a “FACT”, it is an outright lie.

            That’s on you.

            Now let’s talk about Tim Hudak: he’s been given ample opportunity to retract his disproved “million jobs” claim. You know, the central plank of his platform, announced with great fanfare and brayed up and down the province for weeks. This has moved from simple math error into simple dishonesty.

            I guess you’re all for honesty (well maybe not). Why can’t Tim be honest, and admit he made a mistake?

          • OgtheDim

            Those figures are straight from the report.

            You’ll notice the $225 million figure is well within the reimbursement amount within the report.

            We’re arguing over interpretation here of what “due” means.

            I suppose one could argue that the province should have given nothing to TCE if it had waited longer. Not sure a government wants to be seen by companies to welch on a 1/4 billion agreement. Not very ethical, when you think about it but anyhoo…..

          • OgtheDim

            Oh….wait a second….now I get what this is about.

            The Libs are unethical stealers because they didn’t tell a company with a signed agreement to go take a hike using a clause within that agreement.

            SO,,,in essence….what the Libs should have done is stole that money from that company because a bunch of NIMBY’s in Oakville didn’t want a gas plant.

            Ethics……nah….who needs ethics as long as you can call the other side thieves.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            So under your definition of ethics, following the terms clearly spelled out in the contract, which the Auditor General said they should have done, is considered stealing. I guess that’s the level of intelligence required to support this corrupt Liberal government.

          • OgtheDim

            Nah….my ethics includes trying to do the right thing.

            Yours seems to be being an American taxpayer on one blog and a Canadian on another.

            I suppose we both can sleep at night.

          • TheSotSays

            So who are you in real life, Warren Kinsella’s secretary cum scullery maid?

          • TheSotSays

            Well that clears that up Derp. At lunch yesterday my wife expressed the opinion that you were ditzy enough to be Warren Kinsella. But Warren would never combine the present and past tense in one phrase by saying “what the Libs should have done is stole.”

            You’re a loser Ogderp and a perfect follower for the NDP/Liberal Party.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            It’s not welching if it’s within the terms of the contract, which it was. And that’s why the auditor pointed out that this payment would not have been necessary had the Liberals just waited until after the election. But then they might have lost some seats, so we got stuck with the bill to save those seats. If you don’t want to call that theft, then call it embezzlement or misappropriation of funds, but whatever you call it, it’s still corruption and it still came out of our pockets.

          • dsmithhfx

            It was doing what both opposition parties demanded. So how is that corruption?

            Wynne was not involved in the email deletions: Police

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Based on the info you provided, of which I was unaware, I’ll grant you that the deletions took place prior to Wynne taking office. However, that still doesn’t clear her from any involvement. She’s not an outsider who popped up from thin air on Feb. 11th. She was a senior McGuinty cabinet member, co-chair of the election campaign, and the gas plant cancellation document had her signature. So until the investigation is complete, no one in the McGuinty regime is in the clear. As for the Liberals doing what the opposition parties were demanding, no one was demanding it be done before the election and that’s what cost us all that money.

          • dsmithhfx

            Do you actually live in Ontario? You seem singularly uninformed, and have not shown any prior interest until a day ago…

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Yes, I was born in Toronto and live in the GTA. And I have always been interested in politics. I just never visited this Liberal loving website before. As for being uninformed, my not being aware of a recent development in the ongoing police investigation of criminal activity in the McGuinty-Wynne government pales in comparison to your refusal to understand simple economic concepts and the factual truth of the Harris years. Harris saved us from the near bankruptcy caused by the incompetence of Rae’s socialist policies, and now Hudak has to rescue us from the near bankruptcy caused by the incompetence and corruption of the McGuinty-Wynne regime.

          • dsmithhfx

            Nope, I don’t think so. 3 years of exclusively US-focused posts, then a day ago you are suddenly hot and bothered over an Ontario election.

            Much like Hudak’s platform, it doesn’t add up.

          • TheSotSays

            It must be terrible to be a Kathleen McWhinntie or a $530,000 Chow, having to rely on sad things like you to get their message across?

      • Notcleverguy

        Yes, Hudak is the snake-oil salesman.

      • TheSotSays

        He’s quite the political spokesman isn’t he? I made a long print out of his output and have a line up of guys wanting to buy me lunch so thy can read it. What a laugh.

      • dsmithhfx

        The liberals cancelled gas plant contracts that the PCs and NDP both campaigned vigorously to get cancelled, and vowed to cancel if they formed a government. The liberals did it to save two seats. The PC’s and NDP would have done the same thing to win those two seats. Except they didn’t win.

        The >$1-billion figure being thrown around is estimated to be the amount lost during the next 20-years of higher electric rates, plus the cancellation pay-off monkey business.

        Wynne was a member of cabinet. She did not ‘steal your money’. She helped waste some of the province’s money (our money), either deliberately, or possibly through an oversight.

        People in cabinet generally vote the way they’re told. If they don’t, they’re out. Happens in all governments. At least no one died (unlike Walkerton, when Hudak was a backbencher in the Harris government, later brought on cabinet), and lives may well be saved by the cancellations. The people where those plants were going to be built are certainly grateful for the cancellations.

        You aren’t personally $1-billion poorer for it. No charges of theft have been laid. You’re apparently as bad at math as Tim Hudak. Now go and sit in the shade with a cool drink before you hurt yourself.

        • TheSotSays

          Ah yes, Pythagoras SmithFex of the NDP/Liberal Party makes his daily whining complaint about anyone’s arithmetic that differs from his own.

          • OgtheDim

            Given his arithmetic matches what the auditor has said, ur whining is out to lunch.

          • TheSotSays

            Which auditor was that? And perhaps you should show us the report.

          • OgtheDim

            So I have to disprove a comment that was deleted because you can’t be bothered to do some basic research?

            Nah….patio is calling.

          • TheSotSays

            Don’t worry about it Ogderp you’re on the low burner today. Everyone’s busy laughing at Chow making a fool of herself yesterday at the Canadian Club luncheon.

          • TheSotSays

            Patio ??????

            Is that your pet name for Smithfex ???? He spells it “patois.”

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            The Auditor General of Ontario.

        • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

          1.) Yes, the PCs and NDP were also against the gas plants. But here’s the nasty little secret most people are unaware of. It’s not the cancellation of the gas plants that cost us $1 billion, it was the manner in which the Liberals decided to do it. The plants had a performance clause, that allowed the government to cancel the contract WITHOUT PENALTY if certain milestones weren’t met. Due to numerous environmental and legal roadblocks raised by opponents of the plants, they were far behind schedule, and had the McGuinty-Wynne government simply waited a few more months, the contracts would be deemed to have lapsed, WITHOUT PENALTY! But that would have been after the election, and the McGuinty-Wynne government were too concerned about their seats to wait, so they proceed to cancel the plants immediately, costing us $1 billion. That why I call it theft. It was taking our money for nothing other than their own political purposes. And I notice you totally ignore the fact that they erased 1000s of emails to cover it up, for which they are currently THE SUBJECT OF A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION BY THE OPP. Why do that if there was nothing to cover up? 2.) I can’t believe you actually said, “People in cabinet generally vote the way they’re told. If they don’t, they’re out. Happens in all governments.” Please note that I’m not comparing Wynne to the Nazis, but the Nazis “I was only following orders” excuse didn’t work for them, and it doesn’t work now. 3.) People died at Walkerton because 2 unionized civil servants running the Walkerton Public Utilities Commission were too drunk to do their job properly and lied and falsified reports about the water quality. They were convicted and one of them went to jail. It had nothing to do with the Harris government. To quote the Walkerton Commission Report, “The Walkerton Public Utilities Commission operators engaged in a host of improper operating practices, including failing to use adequate doses of chlorine, failing to monitor chlorine residuals daily, making false entries about residuals in daily operating records, and misstating the locations at which microbiological samples were taken. The operators knew that these practices were unacceptable and contrary to Ministry of Environment guidelines and directives.”
          I know that facts can be confusing for people like you, who live in a fantasy world where liberals are all good and conservative are evil, children eating monsters, but those are the facts nonetheless.

          • dsmithhfx

            “In the 2011 Provincial election the Mississauga candidates of all three parties openly expressed opposition to the Mississauga power plant in pre-election debates.[7] NDP candidate Anju Sikka wrote in a open letter to Dalton McGuinty “An NDP government would never allow construction to begin before a thorough and independent Environmental Assessment has been completed”, and PC candidate Geoff Janoscik stated in a press release “A Tim Hudak Government will cancel this plant“.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Like I said, and you totally ignored, it was not the cancellation that cost us $1 billion, it was the haste in which they did it for their own political gain. To trepeat, since you apparently missed it, the plants had a performance clause, that allowed the government to cancel the contract WITHOUT PENALTY if certain milestones weren’t met. Due to numerous environmental and legal roadblocks raised by opponents of the plants, they were far behind schedule, and had the McGuinty-Wynne government simply waited a few more months, the contracts would be deemed to have lapsed, WITHOUT PENALTY! But that would have been after the election, and the McGuinty-Wynne government were too concerned about their seats to wait, so they proceed to cancel the plants immediately, costing us $1 billion. As for Walkerton, you can blame Harris all you want, but again, the direct cause of those deaths was the drunken, criminal incompetence of Stan and Frank Koebel, 2 non-privatized civil servants who didn’t do their jobs and falsified their reports. Without that, no one would have died.

      • john_willow

        Oh. I thought they were blocking you because you exposed Wynne’s lies. Yet here you are. Wasn’t that Hudak campaigning against the gas plants, which had been deemed safe? He couldn’t have been trolling for votes in those neighborhoods, now could he? And now he’s telling Wynne she should have said no to the cancellations. Total hypocrite. Hudak lies like a rug. Wynne had to correct him on a few points. Good luck trying to conjure up lies being told by Wynne. Let’s see you prove even one of them.

        • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

          Here’s just one. Wynne said that Hudak will fire 100,000 civil servants. Hudak made it very clear that the staff reduction would be achieved through attrition over 4 years, meaning that as people retired or left for other reasons, they wouldn’t be replaced. Wynne knows that, so when she said he would fire 100,000 people that was clearly a lie. There were many more lies and questionable statements that I had posted here and were deleted by the site. I’d be glad to try and post them again if you like.

          • Ahala

            First off, if you think that a reduction of 100,000 jobs in four years is achievable through attrition alone, you are incredibly naive. There would necessarily have to be layoffs, services would be privatized, and provision of those services will certainly suffer. But more importantly, I fail to see how gutting the OPS is somehow magically going to stimulate job growth elsewhere. Hudak has not explained this, beyond vague suggestions that it will somehow restore employer confidence. Since you seem to be an observer of US politics, how successful has this tack been in states like Wisconsin and Alabama, where they’ve taken similar approaches to their public sectors to encourage private job growth?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            I’m not familiar with the situation in Alabama, but It’s been hugely successful in Wisconsin, where they’ve turned a big state deficit into a surplus. And by the way, when they were no longer legally required to join the union, over half of Wisconsin’s teachers quit the union. That’s how much they enjoyed being bled for $millions in dues that were used to support Democrats that they themselves did not support.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            You really think 25,000 public sector workers are going to quit or retire every year? Here, have some more kool-aid.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            According to a recent article in the Windsor Star, “about 50,000 civil servants retire in Ontario every year.”

            And beyond that, even the head of OPSEU says there are 60,000 too many managers in Ontario’s public service: Warren “Smokey” Thomas, the President of the Ontario Public Service Employees Union in his own words:

            “There’s probably 60,000 too many managers in the public service” (Toronto Sun, September 20, 2012)

            “Thomas pointed out the real problem is how the numbers of managers-per-employee has spiralled out of control.” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “In the past two years, for every frontline position that the government filled, it went on to hire three supervisors / policy staff member and one senior manager. This only worsens the deficit problem; it doesn’t fix it.” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “When half your budget goes to management, there’s something wrong,” Thomas said. (Hanover Post, November 7, 2012)

            “When you create these small agencies, they get management heavy and the workers suffer.” (Hanover Post, November 7, 2012)

            “The bloated ranks of management personnel” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “The premier’s announcement doesn’t begin to address how the numbers of managers in the Ontario Public Service has ballooned out of control over recent years.” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “The OPS (Ontario Public Service) is management heavy,” (OPSEU News Release,

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            The 50,000 retirement figure doesn’t come from the Windsor Star, it comes from MPP Monte McNaughton, the PC representative for Lambton-Kent-Middlese. No evidence cited, just a number plucked from the air, and no research or rebuttal provided by the paper.

            Secondly, OPSEU is a union, it’s always going to put its front-line union members and interests ahead of non-union management. Thomas repeating the same thing and same numbers over and over again doesn’t make them true. What’s his evidence? Where is the independent assessment agreeing with him?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            I notice you didn’t disagree with or refute the statement by “Smokey” Thomas, the President of the Ontario Public Service Employees Union, that, “There’s probably 60,000 too many managers in the public service.” You just said they’re non-union. Well I don’t recall Hudak ever saying that the cut of 100,000 employees would be exclusively unionized positions. In fact, the opposite is true, because Hudak specifically mentioned cutting back on the bloated, overpaid management at OPG. But as a good Liberal, I guess you’re in favour of keeping “The bloated ranks of management personnel” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012).

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Please, work on your reading comprehension. OPSEU/Thomas is biased against management and there’s no reason to believe his figures or assume he’s in a position to know what necessary management levels should be. Find me an independent source of some sort verifying his numbers.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Okay, so you don’t believe the 50,000 retirement figure because it comes from MPP Monte McNaughton, and you don’t believe “Smokey” Thomas, the President of the Ontario Public Service Employees Union’s statement that, “There’s probably 60,000 too many managers in the public service.”, because he’s biased against management. So essentially, the only people you believe are those who agree with you or who belong to the current Liberal government, which is the most corrupt regime in the history of Ontario.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            I clearly said “Find me an independent source of some sort verifying his numbers.”

            And you can tone down the rhetoric. The most corrupt regime in the history of Ontario was in fact the Family Compact, “a petty corrupt insolent Tory clique”.

          • OgtheDim

            I would suggest the most corrupt was likely the various John A. MacDonald regimes where Lower and Upper Canada were combined, before confederation.

            There is a reason why the railroad into Kingston goes on such a huge loop in and out.

          • dsmithhfx

            You keep throwing the word “corrupt” around, but you haven’t proved a single case of corruption by the Liberal government.

            Hint: the gas plant cancellation may have resulted in a huge waste of money, but it wasn’t because of corruption. It’s because all parties agreed it was the right thing to do and said that is what they would do. The liberals just did it first before the others had the chance. So… no corruption there.

            The other things, including ehealth (started under Harris) and ornge may have involved private sector corruption and certainly bureaucratic mismanagement and oversight failure — but again, that does not mean there was corruption by politicians who were ostensibly ‘responsible’ and who, quite properly, resigned because of it.

            Corruption: it’s an easy word to throw around and to say ‘if none was found, the police didn’t look hard enough’. But then you’re going into conspiracy theories.

            It also is a convenient way to sweep systemic and structural problems under the rug by ascribing it to individuals, or just one party, when in fact it’s a habitual way of doing business that has prevailed in our system for literally centuries. That’s what needs to be fixed.

            Throwing the bums out and replacing them with a new set of bums is not the answer. Especially when the ‘new’ bums are just the same old Harris bums who wrecked the province when they had the chance.

          • john_willow

            “Ontario PC leader Tim Hudak speaks at a breakfast town hall meeting in Barrie, Ont. Hudak says he would reduce the number of public sector workers in Ontario by 100,000 if he wins the June 12 election.” – The Canadian Press
            Of course, when later challenged by the media, Hudak changed his tune and started talking about attrition. Typical con man. But Wynne called him on it. Next.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Let me get this straight. Hudak saying that “he would reduce the number of public sector workers in Ontario by 100,000 if he wins the June 12 election.” proves that Wynne wasn’t lying when she says, and repeatedly continues to say in her ads, that Hudak would FIRE 100,000 people. There is an antidote to the Liberal koolaid you’ve been drinking. It’s called a brain.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            A recent article in the Windsor Star stated that, “about 50,000 civil servants retire in Ontario every year.”

            And beyond that, even the head of OPSEU says there are 60,000 too many managers in Ontario’s public service: Warren “Smokey” Thomas, the President of the Ontario Public Service Employees Union in his own words:

            “There’s probably 60,000 too many managers in the public service” (Toronto Sun, September 20, 2012)

            “Thomas pointed out the real problem is how the numbers of managers-per-employee has spiralled out of control.” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “In the past two years, for every frontline position that the government filled, it went on to hire three supervisors / policy staff member and one senior manager. This only worsens the deficit problem; it doesn’t fix it.” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “When half your budget goes to management, there’s something wrong,” Thomas said. (Hanover Post, November 7, 2012)

            “When you create these small agencies, they get management heavy and the workers suffer.” (Hanover Post, November 7, 2012)

            “The bloated ranks of management personnel” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “The premier’s announcement doesn’t begin to address how the numbers of managers in the Ontario Public Service has ballooned out of control over recent years.” (OPSEU News Release, August 17, 2012)

            “The OPS (Ontario Public Service) is management heavy,” (OPSEU News Release,

          • dsmithhfx

            Pasting the same thing twice? You’re a troll.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            No, I’m just not a fast typist, so pasting is easier. But I notice you didn’t bother to refute the truth.

          • dsmithhfx

            Declaring something you pasted over and over “the truth” doesn’t make it so.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            No, the fact that it is the truth makes it true. Again, I don’t see you refuting any of my facts. By the way, how much are the public service unions paying you to act as a cattle herder for the Liberal morons here, carefully steering the herd away from any facts that might cause them to stampede against the Liberals?

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            By the way, the public service unions are in a circle of bribery with the Liberals. If the head of a public service union slipped a cheque into Kathleen Wynne’s purse, in return for which she gave the union whatever wages and benefits they wanted, that would be bribery, a felony. What is happening now is no different. The Liberals take our tax money, give it to the unions in the form of bloated wages and benefits (bribe #1), and in return, the unions take a portion of that bribe they
            received and spend millions supporting the Liberals in the election (bribe #2), in return for which the Liberals take more of our tax money and give it to the unions in the form of more bloated wages and benefits, etc., etc., etc. And round and round it goes until we’re bankrupt.

          • dsmithhfx

            You’re just regurgitating Hudak campaign rhetoric. Now you may be a true believer but this isn’t a religion, and which deity you choose to believe doesn’t really matter.

            Let’s say for the sake of argument that we agree: too many people are earning too much (including a load of civil servants AND folks in the private sector), and too many people aren’t earning enough in this province.

            What’s the solution? Destroy 100,000 jobs? I don’t think so. That won’t help anybody. Actually it will make the problem that much worse.

            Still on the same page?

            The solution is pretty obvious: tax people earning higher incomes at a higher rate, raise the minimum wage, and increase education, job opportunities, welfare benefits and low-income housing.

            Also strengthen unions especially in low-wage sectors like the hospitality industry (think transnational hotel/motel and fast-food chains). Just like they did in Seattle.

            That will really help the people who need help the most, not tax-dodging whingers who want all the benefits of government protections, without paying their fair share.

            The sunshine list won’t matter so much to you and me when we know half their fat salaries are being clawed right back, to help keep our taxes low.

            Is that communist enough for you? Well, it’s just the doggone truth. ‘Cause I say so. You got a plateful of real truth now. Chew slowly, and it won’t come back up like that Hudak garbage..

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Yes, that is communist enough for me, and thank you for finally revealing your true colours and your total ignorance of economics.

            1.) Hudak’s not destroying anything. He’s cutting 100,000 positions primarily through attrition, which you foolishly say won’t help anybody. It will clearly help the hard-done-by taxpayers of Ontario by saving us about $4 billion annually (based on average salary of $60,000 x 100,000 positions = $6 billion, less $2 billion in lost tax revenue for those positions.)

            2.) People at the top of the income scale are already paying a hugely disproportionate share of taxes. If you raise their rates even more, they’re rich enough to either use expensive accountants to find ways around the taxes or just leave Ontario, as many of the rich have left France since they raised the top tax rate to 75%. So the net effect of an increased tax rate would be reduced tax revenue.

            3.) Too sudden and too great an increase in the minimum wage will result in job losses as employers, especially small business owners like myself, stop hiring or lay people off, and either push a smaller staff to be more productive or replace people with automation.

            4.) Paying people even more not to work by increasing welfare will only result in more people not working, as it always has.

            The problem with you socialists was described perfectly by Margaret Thatcher, who said,”The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples’ money.” Try being generous with your own money instead of everybody else’s.

          • dsmithhfx

            You don’t know what communism is, and that’s why you failed to recognize the sarcasm. No surprise there.

            “He’s cutting 100,000 positions primarily through attrition, which you foolishly say won’t help anybody.”

            No matter how you slice it, “cutting 100,000 positions” equates to destroying 100,000 jobs.

            No need to sugar-coat it like your snake-oil salesman hero (or is it boss?).

            All you got are personal insults and snake-oil. You can drink all you want, just peddle it elsewhere, please.

            Many thanks!

          • TheSotSays

            Every post from you is a vote for Hudak

          • dsmithhfx

            Every post from you is a vote for Wynne.

          • TheSotSays

            I doubt it! My bulldog won’t even vote for her.

          • dsmithhfx

            Since your bulldog can’t vote, it really doesn’t matter who it ‘won’t’ vote for.

          • TheSotSays

            Oh is that so? Well his name is Charlie and the Liberals put him on the voters list when he took out a paid up membership to support Justin for the leadership.

          • dsmithhfx

            Are you planning to commit vote fraud?

          • TheSotSays

            No, can’t you read, he’s not voting, even though the Liberals gave him entitlement.

            He had an interesting idea though. Since he’s on the list he thought it might be fun to go over and put one down for McWhinntie and then show up the day after the election with the confession that he wasn’t the only dumb mutt on the voters list to have been roped into doing the same thing.

          • dsmithhfx

            “He had an interesting idea though. ”

            Really. You should follow his lead.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Don’t you dare tell me about communism. My parents were holocaust survivors who fled Germany, only to be imprisoned in a slave labour camp by the Russians. They told me first hand what communism was all about, as did the few friends and relatives of theirs who survived, and that why I’ve hated it with a passion since I was a young child. Stalin and Mao made Hitler look like an amateur when it came to mass murder. Mao killed over 73 million and Stalin murdered over 50 million.
            At it’s core, communism is about control, and that’s what people like you are into. You want to control everyone’s money and control all their actions. Punish hard work and innovation by taxing away the income, and use that stolen money to make the rest of the population dependant on the government. You would like us to be as prosperous as North Korea, as long as you are in the ruling class that gets to live in luxury off the blood of the peasants. I’m a libertarian who just wants the freaking government to leave me the hell alone, and I don’t need corrupt, incompetent control freaks like McGuinty and Wynne to run my life with endless regulations, impositions on my freedom and theft of my hard earned money.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Capitalism is about control too, you just don’t see it that way because you’ve obviously been raised to believe only governments seek power and influence over people.

            A libertarian wouldn’t vote for Hudak.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            Churchill once said, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” And the same is true for capitalism. It’s not perfect, but it far preferable to all the others, and has always resulted in the most freedom and prosperity. I wasn’t just raised to distrust government, I’ve observed throughout my 62 years why it shouldn’t be trusted, because it has far more power over us than any business. And given that the only 2 viable choices other than Hudak are a socialist and a corrupt semi-socialist, Hudak is the only choice for a libertarian.

          • dsmithhfx

            “[government] has far more power over us than any business”

            Unfortunately the reverse now holds sway, and that’s why the global economy is in such a mess.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            No, what’s wrong with the world economy is crony capitalism, where governments, who do have all the power, have sold out to corporations or to powerful unions, depending on what side of the political spectrum they’re on. Those governments only do what’s good for them, their pals and their corporate or big labour contributors, and the people be damned! So I will always vote for the party that I believe will do less to intrude on my life, and right now that is PC. Not the best choice, but the least bad one.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Why in the world would something or someone “with all the power” sell out to something or someone else who by definition doesn’t have the power? That doesn’t make a lick of sense. What you’re identifying is business/capitalists infiltrating and bringing government under their control.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            The government has the power over us, not the corporations. And the corporations have the money and influence that the greedy, megalomaniac politicians crave. Crony capitalism is the 2 of them working in tandem for their own benefit, and to our detriment. Under your communist system, the government doesn’t have to cooperate with corporations, because they have total power and own everything, including the people.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            My communist system? Where did I advocate communism?

            I understand ‘crony capitalism’ is one of Hudak’s buzzwords this campaign, but he’s talking out the side of his mouth when he says he wants to end “corporate welfare” one minute and then promises to slash corporate taxes by a third. Conservatives aren’t immune to colluding with business like cronies – take a look at the HarperCons.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            You’re voting to reduce government influence over your life and increase unaccountable private corporate influence in its place. It’s a reverse peasants’ revolt: you want to enter into a system of serfdom to unseen rich people who don’t care about you beyond how much value they can wring from your bones.

          • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

            It’s the government that wringing everything from my bones, because they have the legal power to coerce me to do their bidding, whether it be to pay ridiculously high taxes and fees, stop me from having a nice lawn because of Ontario’s ridiculous ban on weed killer, or pay insanely high electricity bills because of a sweetheart deal they signed for Green Energy, which is nowhere near the level required to affordably and reliably replace natural gas, hydro and nuclear. Walmart can’t coerce me to shop there. Government is the real enemy.

          • dsmithhfx

            Maybe you need to move? Wisconsin? Somalia?

          • OgtheDim

            As he is a paid operative who only came on here to troll, more likely Ohio.

          • dsmithhfx

            Nah, if he was a paid operative, he’s gone waaaay off script, and he’s not really helping Hudak or anybody else, even if that was his intent starting out. I think he’s a super-angry amateur of no fixed political abode or coherent philosophy beyond ‘don’t like bein’ told what to do’, paying taxes, whatevs (vaguely libertarian tea-party -ish), who apparently feels he’s strayed into the belly of the big gummint beast, closed his eyes and started swinging.

          • dsmithhfx

            You still don’t know what communism is. Given your family’s past (assuming your story is true), your ignorance is surprising.

            I’m not going to tell you about communism, you’re going to have to do your own research.

            Suffice to say, what you just described has nothing to do with communism, any more than the fact that the nazi party was supported by direct donations from German banks and industrialists means that the holocaust was caused by capitalism.

            By your own logic, your family has been victimized first by capitalism and then by communism. So which is more evil? As you can see, the question is utterly ridiculous.

            Communism and capitalism are economic theories that have frequently been abused in the hands of power elites — often by the same power elites, as we are now seeing in modern China and Russia.

            The problems are the same: the concentration of wealth and power in small minorities who will stop at nothing, no atrocity, to cling to power and privilege.

            Fortunately, our system hasn’t quite degenerated to that point, though it seems to be veering dangerously close, according the Snowden revelations.

          • dsmithhfx

            ..

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            He says attrition now that everyone’s called him on his bullshit math. but I see no reason to believe he’d stick to that if given the chance.

            Firing 100,000 people is going to raise the number of unemployed, which means a hit to the economy and income tax revenue, the same as Honda or Bombardier firing employees would.

          • TheSotSays

            It’s communist enough for me and it reared its ugly head with your pack of hyenas in April 1968

        • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

          I know I’m wasting my time trying to present you brain dead zombies with facts, but the fact is that cancelling the plants isn’t what cost us all that money. Yes, the PCs and the NDP both said they’d cancel the plant, and they could have done so without any penalties, according to the Auditor General’s report, had they just waited a few months. At that point a performance clause in the contract would have kicked in cancelling any penalties. Wynne and McGuinty were aware of this, and this is where their corruption comes in. They made the choice to cancel the plants immediately in order to save a few seats, and to hell with how many $ 100s of millions you and I had to pay for it.

          • dsmithhfx

            Hudak and the NDP both demanded the cancelation of the gas plants. They vowed they would do it if elected. Given how Harris carried on, and Hudak is a Harris protege, it’s not a stretch to suppose he would have managed to waste even more money. The NDP can promise anything they want, because they know they won’t be called to account on it.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            “Brain dead zombies”?

            “Yet another Liberal genius who thinks that insults trump facts.” – You, four days ago.

            Hypocrite.

  • Guest

    Here is what I think about this election

    • TheSotSays

      I’m terribly sorry to give you the bad news but on this blog the participants use the NDP/Liberal Party Style Book and ‘yer” is spelled “ur.”

      We know it’s childish but that’s the left for you, isn’t it?

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    Being upfront about cutting education, healthcare workers, endangering lives with deregulation, increasing the number of unemployed people, etc, doesn’t make those good things for the province.

    • Torontopoly

      What it does do is empower the people to make choices based on policy instead of catchphrases. Don’t get me wrong, I did not and will never support what the Harris government did but Longing’s point is that the people of Ontario did at the time and today’s politicians should be expected to have a real platform too.

      • OgtheDim

        I remember that first election where Mike Harris won.

        People were not voting for the Common Sense Revolution.

        They wanted Rae out.

        The next election – that was a vote for the platform.

        • bobloblawbloblawblah

          Yes, they wanted Rae out and they didn’t regard Lynn McLeod as an alternative and so we got Harris. A good number of people don’t know much about a party’s platform, they vote on who they think is most trustworthy and seems most competent.

          • NayChan

            It helps to have the most money and simple, mean attack strategy positioning those worst off as enemies. That was a very base time in Ontario history. We were really terrible to each other.

    • TheTruthWillSetYouFree003

      I don’t know what planet you live on, but none of your comments about the Harris record have any resemblance to reality. Harris maintained or increased spending in education and healthcare, despite the fact that Federal Liberal finance minister Paul Martin slashed healthcare transfer payments to the provinces in order to balance his budget. Unemployment and the number of people on welfare went down under Harris, and we got the budget balanced after Bob Rae had brought us to the verge of bankruptcy. As for endangering lives through deregulation, I assume you’re referring to the Walkerton myth. The truth about Walkerton is that people died there because 2 unionized civil servants running the Walkerton Public Utilities Commission were too drunk to do their job properly and lied and falsified reports about the water quality. They were convicted and one of them went to jail. It had nothing to do with the Harris government. To quote the Walkerton Commission Report, “The Walkerton Public Utilities Commission operators engaged in a host of improper operating practices, including failing to use adequate doses of chlorine, failing to monitor chlorine residuals daily, making false entries about residuals in daily operating records, and misstating the locations at which microbiological samples were taken. The operators knew that these practices were unacceptable and contrary to Ministry of Environment guidelines and directives.” I know the truh hurts, but that doesn’t change it from being the truth.

      • dsmithhfx

        Harris was an unmitigated fiasco that we are still paying for. Hudak would bring that all back. Except he won’t.

      • OgtheDim

        “Harris maintained or increased spending in education and healthcare,…”

        And cut tens of thousands of nurses….

        “and we got the budget balanced”

        Through a one time asset sell off – (the lease of the 407). And Eves didn’t maintain it.

        “people died there because 2 unionized…..”
        One of those guys being a manager who would have had a series of checks and balances in place to ensure they couldn’t do what they did……..but Harris got rid of that.

        “I know the truth hurts…..”

        Well it would be if you were telling truths, but in reality, you are giving out opinions and being rather…ahem…selective about what facts you present.

        Quite a few of us REAL conservatives think Harris was a disaster because he didn’t do real change – he just slashed without thinking through what sort of province was going to be left. And he fudged the deficit.

        And the whole “The debate is over. Tax cuts create jobs” mantra has been seen to not actually work.

        There are things government should do. And there are things it shouldn’t.

        Harris and Hudak don’t get that. To them, the private sector should do everything……….until it comes to things that their base wants, like supporting horse barns in Caledon.

  • Don River

    Horwath bad, Hudak very bad, Wynne good, Hulk smash!!

  • dsmithhfx

    “The Liberals election platform is based on retaining power for the sake of retaining power, it has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for the people of Ontario.”

    Cynicism will shorten your lifespan: fact.

    Having said that, pretty much all the parties will say and do anything to gain, and keep power. This isn’t unique to Ontario or Canada. It’s how our shambolic form of “western democracy” works/doesn’t.

    For the time being, it’s all we’ve got to work with, and it’s better than the known alternatives. At least we like to think so.

    No point in getting all furious about it, you have to pick the least damaging one that’s currently on offer. For me that’s Wynne.

    Hudak and Horwath are playing to angry mobs.

    That makes them dangerous to our economy and a civil society. Horwath hasn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of forming a government, but she may have the power to topple the liberals and install Timmy the Hun. Who knows what her game plan for that debacle looks like.

    But she should probably dust off her resume, just in case.

  • Kenneth Wells

    I don’t believe people will vote for Wynne (Wynnie) she steals 1.1 billion from the Ontario people just to save 2 seats for the Liberals and has no regard for the Ontario people. She was acting as a puppet for Dalton McGuinty and had a chance to say no and not sign the document to cancel the gas plants. Now she has the nerve to ask the Ontario public to vote her and the corrupt Liberals back in government. I guess people who vote for Wynne and the corrupt Liberals don’t care about the Ontario debt and the other scandals the Liberals tried to cover up such as E-Health and the new Mars scandal. Wynne (Wynney ) isn’t to be trusted because of her her lies and attempted cover ups and plus not answering questions leads me to believe she has trouble with her hearing. I want a transparent government and Wynne has demonstrated she is not fit to be premier. People wake up Wynne is going to raise taxes to pay for her infrastructure plan as it has a price tag of 29 billion dollars.
    Vote for change vote Tin Hudak!

    • tyrannosaurus_rek

      Hudak represents a return to the dark ages of Harris, not exactly “change”.

      Sorry, I mean Hudak (Hurrrdak) and Harris (Harass).

    • Don River

      Tin Hudak??

      • dsmithhfx

        He hasn’t got a heart.

  • dsmithhfx

    “there is no fact to check!”

    Amen Brother!

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    “Employees in the Public sector: 1,330,805″

    About 1,331,000 Ontarians are employed in the public sector,
    according to Statistics Canada. But nearly half of those are jobs with another level of government: about 224,000 work for the federal government, 275,000 are employed by local governments, and 56,000 more work in enterprises owned by local governments. Those are out of bounds. And in making his job-cut pledge, Mr. Hudak said that doctors, nurses and police would all be spared. Based on the latest data on the province’s total number of doctors, nurses and Ontario Provincial Police officers, that’s another 128,000 jobs that would be excluded from the cuts.

    What’s left? Just shy of 650,000 provincial public-sector employees. For this pool, Mr. Hudak would be looking to cut almost one in six jobs, or more than 15 per cent of this work force. And he says he’ll do it in just two years.</blockquote

    Fact-checked by the Globe.

    • OgtheDim

      If I might just add to all this, the ONDP supporting OPSEU has suggested the ONDP will cut 60000 managers and hire 80 000 front line public sector workers.

      Class warfare seems to go both ways.

      • dsmithhfx

        You mean they help Hudak get in, and after three or four years of that the peasants will rise up?

        Is that how this narrative is supposed to go?

        • OgtheDim

          Nah, I’m just thinking that its amazing how many people want to get rid of somebody when it doesn’t involve them.

        • TheSotSays

          “Rise up” ??????

          Nice expression. Charlie Manson’s girls used to scratch it out on victim’s walls. You’re not Squeaky Fromme, are you?

      • tyrannosaurus_rek

        Where was this suggested, and what was the reason given?

        • OgtheDim
          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            That’s OPSEU’s position; what’s Horwath’s?

          • OgtheDim

            That’s why I was particular about my wording (I think somewhere on the Globe I posted that without the particular wording and then thought to do some research).

            I would hope Horwath wouldn’t do that.

          • dsmithhfx

            Horwath’s not going to anything except fulminate about “hard-working families” and “everyday people” (as opposed to “every other day people”?), because the ONDP is not going to form a government, not in her lifetime.

          • TheSotSays

            Andrea Horvath leaves a personal favourable impression wherever she goes and I’d like to see one example from you of her “fulminating” about or against anything. It’s a preposterous allegation.

          • dsmithhfx

            So you missed the debate?

          • TheSotSays

            Let’s face it chief, Kathleen McWhinntie and her tax plundering antics are enough to steam peeve The Good Humour Man.

          • dsmithhfx

            Wait a minute, I thought the NDP were your tax-plunderers of choice. Are they moving down the enemies list?

          • TheSotSays

            On top of being confused, you’re not paying attention. And isn’t that part of your job?

          • dsmithhfx

            You hate the NDP and Hudak, you’ve said so many times. I guess that just leaves Wynne for your vote. Does crow taste bitter?

          • TheSotSays

            I hate no one. Hate is generally a left marxist character defect.

            Nevertheless you must be feeling anxious if you’re attributing your own negative feelings to me. It’s sometimes an early development problem, you should talk to someone about it.

          • dsmithhfx

            I think you’re being far too modest:

            You hate gays.

            You hate socialists.

            You hate the NDP.

            You hate Olivia Chow.

            You hate the downtown.

            You hate streetcars.

            You hate the late, great Jack Layton.

            You hate Time Hudak…

            You pretty much spew hate-filled invective here 24/7, which the moderators, in their inscrutable wisdom, have seen fit to mostly delete, delete, delete.

            Are we seeing a pattern yet?

          • TheSotSays

            You have serious problems lady, seek help quickly

          • TheSotSays

            The only pattern I see is that you’re simply just one more leftroid flake.

          • NayChan

            Notice how the tea party right defends the NDP now? Concern trolling. Not an attractive trait.

          • TheSotSays

            Over on the right we’re able to admire people for their personal characteristics and at the same time disagree with their politics.

            Would you like to hear my view of a couple of your fruitcakes like Layton/Chow and Gord Perks.

    • TheSotSays

      I find it fascinating that you use the same “classic” writng style as NibbleRoss does when he tries to talk with a Washington accent.

      • tyrannosaurus_rek

        I find it fascinating you think I care. Just kidding; it isn’t fascinating.

      • dsmithhfx

        You’re a lousy troll because: when you go off script and try to sound clever, nobody can understand wtf you are babbling about.

        • TheSotSays

          That’s what OgDerp tells me. Like you, she’s not very bright either.

  • dsmithhfx

    ..

  • Guest

    ..

  • Leftyfluff

    What an amazing full of BS website this is.