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173 Comments

politics

A Victory of Lowered Expectations

Mayor Ford's opponents insist he must go, but they failed to explain why at the first televised mayoral debate.

Screenshot from CityNews debate.

The first televised mayoral debate reinforced an important truth: even Mayor Rob Ford’s strongest political opponents struggle to name and describe his unparalleled misconduct, and to tell voters why he is unfit to serve.

Karen Stintz, Olivia Chow, John Tory, and David Soknacki all hinted at Ford’s apparent missteps and scandals during last night’s CityNews debate, but they mostly left it to the audience to fill in the blanks. They avoided any mention of drugs, criminal associations, and an ongoing police investigation into Ford, leaving him to explain, under direct questioning from CityNews reporter Cynthia Mulligan, that “people have heard the story.”

It was the first major opportunity for Ford’s opponents to connect the mayor’s shocking lack of personal and professional judgment with his aspiration to be re-elected—and they balked.

Stintz gushed before her closing statement that “it’s a refreshing change to talk about policies.” However, the format—a series of one-minute statements on broad topics, followed by cacophonous, unmoderated three-minute exchanges between all five candidates—didn’t provide much in the way of new or interesting policy discussion.

Ford repeated a litany of fallacies about his record and the state of City finances; Tory promised to save money by consolidating City real estate divisions, but provided no savings estimates; Chow repeated her promise to boost bus service, but failed to articulate how much relief such a move would provide. Stintz preferred platitudes to policy: she employed the phrase “kitchen-table common sense” in three consecutive sentences, for example. Soknacki demonstrated the most depth in discussing policy, particularly public transit.

Candidates got the chance to question one of their opponents, and those exchanges proved more interesting and indicative of campaign strategies. Tory questioned Chow on contracting out garbage collection east of Yonge Street, and suggested she was reluctant to do so because of her connections to organized labour. “You’re hidebound to your union friends,” Tory said. “That’s the difference between you and me.”

Ford likely surprised many attentive viewers by asking a question of Soknacki, who is polling well behind Chow and Tory. Soknacki held his own on the issue of City budgets, but came off as somewhat agitated and aggressive in comparison to the grinning, defiant Ford. The mayor seemed eager both to cast Soknacki as a spendthrift from the era of former mayor David Miller, and to avoid direct confrontation with his seemingly more formidable opponents.

Also notable was Tory’s continued struggle to condemn Rob Ford the man, while promising to carry on the Ford agenda. “The problem with you, Rob, is that that you will just make decisions on any host of subjects without any of the facts in front of you,” Tory asserted at one point. Yet a short time later, Tory borrowed a questionable Fordian argument—that the TTC’s overall budget has increased—to dodge a question on specific cuts to bus service. Tory, perhaps more so than Stintz or Soknacki, is angling to position himself as Rob Ford without the crack cocaine and police feuds.

Except, of course, that Tory and others found it too risky or perhaps too impolite even to mention these things. Ford was the biggest target, as is usually the case for incumbents, but his opponents never told us why they are so seemingly disappointed in his leadership. The debate’s messy and often incomprehensible exchanges (which CityNews moderator Gord Martineau didn’t even attempt to control) meant the mayor could muddle through without often being challenged. Some say Ford won the debate outright, in part because of the low expectations he’s managed to establish for his mayoralty.

Ford suggests his accomplishments as mayor are singular, but it is his reckless indifference to the office he holds that makes him truly special. While some of the controversy surrounding Ford’s personal life may be irrelevant to the campaign, a great many of his past and ongoing acts are too troubling to be ignored or minimized.

Candidates have to tell voters why Ford’s controversial conduct—his public drunkenness, his foul condemnation of the police chief, his bizarre relationship with alleged extortionist Sandro Lisi, his many racist and homophobic remarks—should disqualify him to lead our city. Absent that, Ford is still standing, and still a strong bet to return to the mayor’s chair on October 27.

Comments

  • bobloblawbloblawblah

    “…….. or perhaps too impolite even to mention these things. ”

    They really are going to have to take the gloves off when it comes to handling our party like a rock star Mayor. Bullies like Ford rely on other people being too nice to call them on their horrible behaviour. Also, meekly challenging Ford’s lies will only allow him to frame his role in the city in the past four years. I suspect none of his opponents want to roll in the muck with him but it may be the only way to chip away at his attempt to rehabilitate his image.

    • Sonny Yeung

      b & Desmond; they know when you wrestle a pig you’re going to get dirty! I don’t know why you & the Corporate Media don’t point out by his own admission he did 107 debates in 2010(experience at dodging? ie gravytrain)
      2. Most of public speaking is body language, tone then the words.

  • Sir_H_Flashman

    My take was that, for whatever reason, Ford was the only one who really projected confidence,however unjustified. Human nature is such that being sure often impresses more people than being right.

    I hope the other candidates have good swagger coaches.

  • Michael

    Game of Drones . First, change the format and get rid of Martineau, who seemed benignly indifferent to the squabbling and schoolyard antics – good grief!!

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    Without a moderator who can cut the audio from a candidate speaking out of turn, it isn’t a debate.

    • estta

      I wish I could like this more. Without a good moderator, any debate is just going to devolve into a pointless sound byte-ridden shouting match.

  • wklis

    I think the candidates were too kind to Rob Ford. They should have barked instead of hissed at him.

  • iSkyscraper
    • OgtheDim

      When city staff say additional revenues through user fees = efficiencies then they have either drunk the kool-aid or are incompetent.

      That and it uses the word “efficiency” when it clearly means “spent not as much as originally targetted”. That’s like saying, “Hey dear, we saved $1.5 million this year by not buying that house we saw heading home one day.”

      • rich1299

        There’s another reason why city staff might have gone along with this, they saw how Webster was fired for doing is job as a civil servant and likely want to hang onto their jobs. The fact that Ford was able to fire the head of the TTC for disagreeing with him hits home the fact we desperately need more protection for civil servants against having their non-partisan role compromised by unscrupulous politicians at every level of gov’t.

        I forget who did it or where I saw it but someone used Ford’s math to check Miller’s record and found, by Ford’s math, that Miller saved over $1.5 billion in his last term.

    • John_Marmalade

      Just so we’re clear

      At the end of 2003 when Miller showed up with his NDP tax plunderers, the liabilities of the City totalled $5.9 billion. When Miller hiked out at the end of 2010 the liabilities had more than doubled to $12.5billion. That’s an increase of $6.6 billion. Those numbers are from the publicly available audited financial statements, Schedule 70, line 9940.

      So here’s how I look at it:

      a) Miller increased the liabilities by $6.6 billion and he
      spent the money.
      b) Miller gave us tax increases of approx 28% and he spent
      the money.
      c) Miller gave us the vehicle registration fees and he spent
      the money.
      d) Miller gave us a special land transfer tax and he spent
      the money.
      e) Miller gave us a grocery bag tax but allowed Loblaws etc.
      to spend the money.

      But on top of that Miller was a real winner:

      f) Miller found that the City owned advertising space on public land that has an unknown value but is worth at least $10 million and possibly as much as $20 million. Miller turned this over to a private company in return for a stack of pay toilets for downtown streets.
      g) Miller purchased for $600 million or so a garbage disposal site in London Ontario and we now send dozens of heavily laden leaky garbage trucks out on to the 401 every day for a 450 km return trip that increases the danger of driving on the busiest highway in Ontario.
      h) Miller, during his term, gave us a rat infested six week garbage strike in the middle of a hot summer leaving stinking garbage piled everywhere in the street.
      i) Miller in connection with the hot summer garbage strike closed all the kid’s swimming pools stealing from young children a precious summer of our short lives.

      Rob Ford, on the other hand, has done a lot to straighten us
      out:
      a) Ford negotiated a deal with the sanitation guys and made
      us safe.
      b) Ford eliminated the vehicle registration tax and the bag
      fees
      c) Ford has contracted out some of the garbage and reduced the cost.
      d) Ford had no tax increase in 2011 and half of the recent
      Miller increases in 2012 & 13.

      But there’s more because if one examines the audited financial statements at Schedule 26, line 9199 one will discover that in Miller’s last year 2010, the taxes levied amounted to .6017% of the total assessment but by the end of 2012 Ford had reduced that to .5492% of total assessment. In simple terms that means that if we had continued the way Miller was going, the City would have levied taxes at least $360 million higher than they did.

      Now you may not like him personally but Ford promotes a better sense of frugality down there than we’ve seen in a very long time. We don’t want to end up like Detroit.

      • OgtheDim

        Nice bit of a one sided non-contextual discussion.

        You sound almost Libertarian..

        a) Liabilities? Who the heck uses that to discuss finances?

        b) Yup, revenue generation went higher then it should – but Of course he spent the tax – THAT’S WHAT GOVERNMENT’S DO

        c) Of course he spent the tax – THAT’S WHAT GOVERNMENT’S DO.

        d) Of course he spent the tax – THAT’S WHAT GOVERNMENT’S DO.

        e) A bag fee that actually reduced city spending (you know, that whole revenue vs. spending thing) by putting less plastic bags in the landfill

        f) that would be what’s called a public/private partnership.

        g) You forgot about that whole sending trash to Michigan thing. That was being closed by the Michigan legislature.

        h) Miller caused CUPE to go on strike?!?!?! Are you purposefully dense?

        i) Yup, city strikes stink. You blame Miller for that?!?! BTW, don’t give me no poor kids crap. There is this kiddie pool that the city wants to open up that Rob Ford has been yelling about for months? Stop being a hypocrite.

        Now, lets talk about Rob Ford points:

        a) Holiday negotiated that. Ford was specifically sidelined in the negotiations. As for “made us safe”, cut the hyperbole here. This is a guy who SMOKES CRACK WITH GANGBANGERS. Gangs that kill people.

        b) Yup, Ford dropped $60 million in revenue. As for the bag fee, eventually, and only through fear of a lawsuit, the city has done this. Ford BUNGLED that in council, so that for 4 months, we had the spectacle of a bag ban, put on us by Ford supporters. Yup, your boy was so much in charge he had members of his exec BAN BAGS.

        c) Yup, although GFL has a history of coming back after 3 years and upping prices to above what cities used to pay for when they ran things – the jury is out on this one.

        d) No tax increases only because he used up the surplus left by Miller. (You know, that whole thing you are ignoring) And, of course all this ignores the fact that our city is growing and services mandated by law are going to increase, along with inflation increases. Your idea that taxes should never increase, or exist is a fantastical almost religious viewpoint not backed up by operational and legal reality.

        And is this where we talk about a BILLION $ boondoggle of a subway to a Canadian Tire?

        Or the earlier attempt to tax us for 50 years to build a subway to Vic Park?

        As for your assessment %, that was dropping already. Your assumption that Miller would have stopped that drop is false.

        And, as stated already, that CFO statement is false in SO many ways.

        BTW, I guess that your vote for a guy smoking crack with gang bangers can be bought.

        You choose to not have taxes.

        But your also choosing to support a guy who refuses to work with police. A guy who can not be trusted. A guy who spends time with gangbangers and drug dealers.

        A guy who smoked crack.

        Some of us have higher morals then that.

        • John_Marmalade

          Well it’s nice to see that the NDP hasn’t learned anything from the 2010 election where everything Miller was denounced by the rate paying voters.

          It’s also nice to see the NDP refer to the Toronto CFO as a liar.

          Over the period of a year or so, I listened carefully to Mayor Ford on Radio 1010, discussing in detail his views about the best ways for the City of Toronto to grow and prosper and I agree with him. I’ve also watched many of his good ideas blown away by the clearly partisan activity of the NDP clique on council. I’ve also been personally disenfranchised by the coup d’etat removal and arbitrary transfer of Ford’s powers.

          What’s going on down there at an NDP driven City Council is intolerable and I believe the best way to fix it is to vote the NDP councillors out of office and to replace them with civic minded people unwilling to treat the City government as some sort of play toy to be used for their personal socialist pleasure.

          My votes in the next election will be cast to eradicate the Miller, Mihevic,Layton, Vaughan, Clayton Ruby cabal that has been disrupting the orderly operation of city government for the last four years.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Who do you think keeps electing these “NDP” councillors? The people of Toronto. Who are you to disenfranchise them?

          • John_Marmalade

            The Mayor is elected separate from the others as CFO, the Councillors are voted in to fix local pot holes. My view is that I was disenfranchised in an NDP Liberal Party coup d’etat and I’m sticking with it.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Your view is wrong on all counts. We have a weak mayor system so if the mayor/CFO fails to get the support of council then he has failed at his job. I’m not surprised to see a conservative claiming democracy isn’t fair because it lets the wrong people vote.

          • John_Marmalade

            The fact that you personally continue to pester pester pester the issue and my point of view is an exact representation of what I’ve seen from this NDP/Liberal Party council over the last four years. It’s childish behaviour and it’s been a national joke for the last twenty years.

            Mayor Ford received almost 400,000 votes in the last election and not a single one of those voters expected that he would get any cooperation at all from the NDP and we were right.

            Your NDP lackies who see our democracy as some sort of toy for their personal pleasure are not going to steal my vote and expect silence.

          • OgtheDim

            So, let me get this straight:

            Ur guy smokes up with gangbangers.

            But the real evil in this city is the NDP/Liberal council (who are not even a majority on council btw)

            Yeah, you got a real warped view of morality.

          • John_Marmalade

            No I look at all you people putting up statues to Jack Layton and all I see is hypocrisy. And that’s all a lot of others see as well.

            I’m happy with my moral standards but you should definitely be taking a look at your own.

          • dsmithhfx

            How many statues?

          • OgtheDim

            Spend some time talking to people who deal with the aftermath of drug gangs.

            You’d have a different opinion.

          • John_Marmalade

            Oh, I’m sorry.

            I didn’t realize that Jack Layton got picked up in the living room of the little old lady who lived across the street.

            If that’s case then maybe you’re not a hypocrite after all.

          • OgtheDim

            So what ur saying is that because I don’t sit in here and yell about what Layton did 25 years ago and its affect on who Olivia Chow is today, its actually OK for Ford to spend time with gangbangers one day 13 months ago, smoking up with them, on Family Day no less, and then the very next day say to the media that its hard combating gangs because “we don’t know who they are”? (yes, that’s a direct quotation)

            You might want to consider a more systemic political ideology.

          • John_Marmalade

            Yesterday is yesterday buddy if it’s good enough for you it’s good enough for me.

            As for “systemic political ideology” I’ve studied yours carefully and the thought of it makes me sick.

            But by the way Chow’s plundering of her parliamentary expenses is exactly within the time frame that should make you happy and convinces me that out of the two Rob Ford is the one who can be trusted absolutely and without reservation.

          • OgtheDim

            “As for “systemic political ideology” I’ve studied yours carefully and the thought of it makes me sick.”

            Given you keep saying I’m with the NDP, I’m going to give you an F on that course.

          • John_Marmalade

            Give me whatever you like. Please let me warn you though that I treat anything from you as if it’s a spam sandwich and let the sewage system handle it.

          • dsmithhfx

            Two more subjects you flunked: English vocabulary, and computer literacy… You know, I’m sure you have a talent for something, but… what is it?

          • rich1299

            How can anyone trust a chronic liar like Rob Ford? The guy just can’t stop lying no matter what. When he speaks people measure his lies per minute. He’s been refuted time after time yet keeps on lying exactly like he did with his Florida DUI. Even after being shown the paper work from Florida proving he was convicted of driving under the influence he still insisted he was only convicted with refusing to take a breathalyzer.

            The only thing Rob Ford does well is propaganda, the bigger the lie the more people will believe and constant repetition makes the lies seem more believable. Despite being an irremediable chronic liar he’s not even a good at being a liar. Ford is the very worst sort of politician, incompetent, divisive, uses bigotry to appeal to certain voters.

            I seriously can’t fathom how anyone could support Ford for mayor.

          • John_Marmalade

            Well the fact that you can’t seriously “fathom” things must make life difficult for you.

          • dsmithhfx

            This is the part where I point out that Jack Layton is dead…

          • John_Marmalade

            And electorally speaking, so is his wife.

          • dsmithhfx

            She has an excellent chance of winning, even if Rob isn’t charged before the election. I can see that has you very, very worried. So worried in fact, that you stoop to slandering her dead husband. Not cool.

          • bobloblawbloblawblah

            Who’s putting up statues? There’s only one that I know of. Anyhow, a good number of posters on this board aren’t NDP.

          • dsmithhfx

            “The fact that you personally continue to pester pester pester the issue and my point of view”

            Here’s how this works: anybody can reply to anything you post. Don’t like it? You should leave.

          • OgtheDim

            People who start a discussion with

            “Just so we’re clear”

            really should not be upset when people question their clarity.

          • John_Marmalade

            Unfortunately the comment “Just so we’re clear” was directed at the skyscraper in his own language.

            The idea that I would direct “just so we’re clear” at you is nonsense. Nothing is clear to you and everyone knows it. .

          • John_Marmalade

            Well it’s great sport here but it’s childish and counter productive when the NDP lackies do it at City Council and that’s why the many voters like me are going to put an end to it.

          • OgtheDim

            Just so we’re clear:

            You have as much clue as how this city will vote as the rest of us.

          • John_Marmalade

            The idea that I would direct “just so we’re clear” at you is nonsense. Nothing is clear to you and everyone knows it. .

          • dsmithhfx

            “everyone knows it”

            “Everyone” being only you?.

          • John_Marmalade

            NDP – The Nut-Bars in Denial Party.

          • dsmithhfx

            How old are you?

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Should I have hired someone to reply impersonally on my behalf? And since when do two replies – to someone who I don’t think has ever posted here before – count as pestering?

            Why do conservatives take political differences so personally? Why is disagreement in council a conspiracy, an attack, rather than elected officials doing what they were hired (by their constituents) to do? It speaks to a desire for despotism that you want council purged of anyone who won’t fall in line. Would you have progressive/centre/leftist voters rounded up and carted away too, or is removing their right to vote enough to sate your rage?

            You have it backwards, by the way: Ford’s voting history as councillor is a matter of public record, so nobody voted for him expecting he’d be able to work with council, be a team leader, negotiate or compromise for the common good of the city. He’s always been an antagonist loner, often voting contrarily when council was otherwise unanimous, unable to find middle ground with anyone.

          • bobloblawbloblawblah

            “Mayor Ford received almost 400,000 votes in the last election ”

            That doesn’t mean he gets to do anything he wants. He has one vote and has to convince other of the rightness of his ideas. Ford has an inability to get along with others — his usual methods are to bully and threaten. It’s no surprise that most of council no longer listens to him. That’s how government works — you need to get a consensus in order to get things done. Ford has simply failed at that.

          • OgtheDim

            Ur view doesn’t match reality. If you think Kelly is an NDP’er…..you really need to get out more.

            That, and the mayor is not the CFO. Google the Ontario Municipal Act.

            Education is a wonderful thing.

          • John_Marmalade

            My view matches reality exactly. The only reason poor old Kelly got guinea pigged is because it would have been blatantly intolerable and obvious to everyone what was going on if you’d tried to put a gold crown on Mihevic.

            We’ll see how well the issues become defined over the summer but at this point in time Ford has my vote for another shot at cleaning up a long standing NDP mess that has made Toronto the laughingstock of Canada.

            Ford is the only one who can be trusted to work against turning Toronto into Detroit. In my ward I will be searching for a councillor who will support him.

          • dsmithhfx

            “obvious to everyone what was going on if you’d tried to put a gold crown on Mihevic”

            Sorry, it’s not obvious. What “gold crown”?

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            He thinks democracy is feudalism, with everyone pledging fealty to the Lord Mayor.

          • OgtheDim

            LOL….you seriously think the LEFT did that to Ford?

            Yeah, you drunk the kool-aid.

            BTW, I see you are avoiding like crazy the whole :”He smoked crack. He spent time with gangbangers and his best friend is a drug dealer” thing.

            Funny that you rail against the NDP but don’t get that your guy is about as low as it can be as far as morality is concerned.

          • spoobnooble

            You’ll be looking hard and long for any councilors who still support Ford.

          • John_Marmalade

            When I voted for Ford the last time I never figured there was ANYONE on that council who would support what he wanted to do.

            This time around though there will be plenty of candidates running who will support him as part of their own platforms and those will be the people elected. The only people who will further support an NDP/Miller/Mihevic sideshow are the 5 or 6 trolls on this blog.

            Ford will have plenty of support. The voters themselves will guarantee it.

          • dsmithhfx

            ” I never figured there was ANYONE on that council who would support what he wanted to do.”

            I don’t think Rob himself knew that he wanted to: Raise property taxes by a billion dollars, get caught on video smoking crack, trigger an ongoing police investigation into his gang affiliations, call the Chief of Police an obscenity, and an entire litany of more surprises.

            Given that record, who do you think will now want to be seen supporting Rob Ford? I mean, apart from yourself?

          • Notcleverguy

            If this is wahht you think, than why does fixing pot holes seem to be Ford’s biggest concern?

          • John_Marmalade

            Ford’s biggest concern seems to be government waste but thankfully he’s on 24 hour call to fix pot holes because it’s of no concern at all to the NDP contingent.

            The NDP people are simply too hoity toity to worry about pot holes and that’s why Ford thinks there’s too many of them and plans to cut the number in half (down to 22) when he’s re-elected..

          • dsmithhfx

            “The NDP people are simply too hoity toity to worry about pot holes and that’s why Ford thinks there’s too many of them and plans to cut the number in half (down to 22) ”

            Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you ventured past the end of your driveway?

          • OgtheDim

            Nah, Ford’s biggest concern is handing out fridge magnets and getting elected so he can keep busy doing important stuff like spending times in Parks with his pal Sandro, like he has since his family moved him out of active work at Deco.

          • John_Marmalade

            The NDP faction on Toronto Council is a joke and now that they want to add Olivia Chow to their collection of losers it’s clearer now than it’s ever been that Rob Ford is the only man who can be trusted absolutely to do the job right and to fight hard against a bunch incompetents.

            He has my vote because I’m not prepared to watch NDP losers or some Norm Kelly, turn the City into a Detroit.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Cutting the number of councillors down will require council voting in favour of the motion. To get the majority needed, Ford’s allies on council would have to vote to eliminate their own jobs. None of them have drunk the kool-aid to that extent.

            It should anger and alarm you that your chosen messiah wants to reduce Toronto residents’ democratic agency – including your own – for the sake of saving maybe 0.1% of the city’s budget.

          • John_Marmalade

            You must be quite the optimist because if the matter of reducing future councils to 22 councillors comes up as an election issue, I’m going to guess that anyone running for council in October won’t be elected unless they’re openly in favour.

            And on the matter of you preaching democracy; that would be a great thing for the Toronto NDP except for the fact that they removed Rob Ford and disenfranchised the almost 400,000 voters who elected him to do a specific well defined job. He is exceptional at doing the job he promised to do and many people are appreciative of his determination against strong opposition..

          • dsmithhfx

            Why do you think our democratically-elected Council (which collectively received more votes than Ford), acting within their statutory powers, voted to strip Rob Ford of most of the mayoral powers?

            Isn’t it because he lied to them (and all of us, including you) repeatedly, about the existence of the video showing him smoking crack cocaine? Isn’t it because he refused treatment for his addiction, which has continued to this day?

            Do you actually believe Council is controlled by “the NDP”? Because if you do, then you must believe the majority of voters are NDP. You poor, deluded fool.

          • John_Marmalade

            “Which collectively received more votes than Ford”

            You’re wrong, and you look foolish when you try to deceive people. Go count them up.

          • dsmithhfx

            “voters who elected him to do a
            specific well defined job.”

            Rob can’t do the job he was elected to do, because he is impaired by drugs and alcohol. That’s why Council had to remove his powers.

            Do you believe Council is controlled by the NDP? Yes or no.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            You seem confused (still). Being an “election issue” doesn’t mean it gets implemented the first day of council. It doesn’t mean it ever makes it to the table for a vote. Then you still need 22 freshly elected councillors to vote in favour of it, in favour of losing their brand new job. Now I don’t want to blow your mind, but the same people who voted Rob Ford into the mayor’s seat also voted in all those “NDP” councillors to represent them. What makes you think Toronto voters are suddenly going to, en masse, switch? (Drugs? Is it the drugs making you think that? Or maybe a pay cheque from Ford’s campaign?)

          • dsmithhfx

            It’s looking like the Ford campaign is strictly amateur, this time around.

          • rich1299

            Don’t forget that almost every Conservatives on city council also voted to strip Ford of the powers that city council gave him. Ford wasn’t turfed from the mayor’s office, though he should’ve resigned for the sake of the city.

          • torontothegreat

            A Mayor is NOT a CFO, do you even know what that word means? The City of Toronto already HAS a CFO. Ford is nothing more than a General Manager.

          • OgtheDim

            Name calling impresses nobody.

            If the sum of your research is you listening to Ford on 1010, you havn’t done enough research.

            BTW, I’m not NDP. Far from it. You need to get out beyond your bubble. It is possible to disagree with Ford and be right of centre. Look into John Parker.

            On another note – it was Shiner who did that bag tax thing – a Tory.

            Stinz did in Ford on the Sheppard subway – she’s a card carrying Tory as well.

            As for calling the CFO a liar, well apart from the fact I didn’t say that – what’s your point? The CFO misrepresenteda budget process. He interjected himself, without being asked, in the election and gave opinions based on an interpretation of the word efficiency. Darn right he should be called on the carpet. Ford calls sfaff far worse stuff. Unless he wants them to fix up stuff for his Deco customers.

            Again, do some research before you spout off outrage.

          • John_Marmalade

            You called the CFO a liar, I’ve recorded a copy of it, and that’s one of the many reasons why a few of your high paid henchman are going to find themselves out the door in October.

          • dsmithhfx

            Rob Ford is not “the CFO”. He is “the disgraced former mayor”. I also called him a liar. Record that.

          • OgtheDim

            Recorded a copy? Are you the staff member that goes around taping people who Ford thinks are going to far in heckling him?

            BTW, given I never speak in public and am just a private citizen, I’m really interested in where you got a recording of me saying he’s a liar. Do you think I’m Perks?

          • dsmithhfx

            Planning to vote in multiple wards? ‘Cause that’s illegal. Not that it matters to a Fordista, apparently.

          • John_Marmalade

            I have a vote for mayor and a vote for councillor and you know it.

            Every NDP councillor down there treats this as a joke, as your doing here, and that’s why me and thousands of others like me will be voting to throw you out.

          • dsmithhfx

            “me and thousands of others like me will be voting to throw you out”

            I don’t hold an elected office.

          • John_Marmalade

            When your elected boss goes, you go.

          • dsmithhfx

            “When your elected boss goes, you go.”

            But my boss also doesn’t hold elected office.

          • John_Marmalade

            Oh yes, well I’m sorry, you’re right.

            She just recently resigned and subjected the taxpayers to the exorbitant and unnecessary cost of a by-election. That’s another reason why Ford is a better candidate.

          • dsmithhfx

            10 points for: “Who was a conservative Ford supporter on Council that publicly vowed he would never resign mid-term, and hypocritically shamed those who did so the past, but oh gosh a provincial by-election came up, and the Ford bandwagon was looking a little rickety?”

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            That’s the law. How would you like it if she didn’t have to resign her position and could run anyway? You’d be shitting fire from your tear ducts at the gall, and rightly so.

          • John_Marmalade

            Her constituents voted for her at the last federal election to represent her in the federal parliament and now she’s quit. She can’t keep a commitment to the people who trusted her.

            In comparison Rob Ford can be trusted absolutely to do what he said he would do.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Flaherty just quit too, where’s your vitriol? Elected officials aren’t slaves, they’re allowed to pursue other things when the opportunity arises.

            Ford has failed to do a number of things he promised to do, largely due to his utter failure as a leader and team-builder in council.

          • John_Marmalade

            Flaherty resigned as Minister of finance but still holds his seat and is well positioned to represent his constituents going forward.

            Chow resigned for personal reasons. She left her constituents without representation and stiffed the taxpayers for the cost of a by election.

            Ford has one vote only on council and was saddled with a council that knew exactly why he was elected, and decided well in advance to obstruct his elected mandate to the greatest extent possible. Everyone knows about it.

            That’s why many people are going to vote to throw out the obstructive councillors who refused to work with the Mayor.

            The voters are the only ones who can fire the obstructive NDP bums who are responsible for holding up the work of the City and making Toronto a hated countrywide laughing stalk.

          • dsmithhfx

            Why do you reckon his own, hand-picked Executive Committee turned on him and voted to strip him of his mayoral powers? Did he hand-pick NDP on his Executive Committee? Omigosh, is Rob Ford an NDP sleeper agent? Marmalade, get out of town and wait for further instructions.

          • rich1299

            You forget that at first Ford was able to control city council getting some his pet projects passed when he was first elected. It was only when he started running off the rails and fired the head of the TTC for disagreeing with him, costing the city the rest of his contract for Ford’s petty vendetta, that his former supporters start questioning Ford’s lack of judgement. It wasn’t till after he refused to resign for smoking crack, his drinking problem, his abuse of city staff for his own personal benefit, his association with gangsters, his overall incompetence, and his chronic lying that made Toronto the butt of a bad joke for electing him in the first place that city council voted to remove the powers that city council gave Toronto’s mayor.

            It is true that outgoing councillors who knew well what Rob Ford was like did predict that he would be reduced to mayor in name only with city council working around him. Anyone who followed city politics knew full well that Ford was bound to be a failure as mayor. The only thing surprising about Ford’s mayoralty is how long he managed to hold things together initially. Ford is a bully and in system that requires the mayor to gain the support of councillors to do anything being a bully is a recipe for the mayor to get nothing done. City council has been working just fine without him.

          • OgtheDim

            Oh…..ur one of those guys that thinks everybody who disagrees with you is for Olivia Chow.

            You do need to get out more.

          • John_Marmalade

            The reason I know Rob Ford is solid is because every time someone makes a statement in Ford’s favour the NDP jackals (and you) leap out of the woodwork by the dozen and make an attack.

            During WWII, Paton knew the Germans were finished when his intelligence informed him that the Germans were retreating using ox carts instead of vehicles.

            That’s you guys, beaten to a pulp with Olivia Chow, and using Ox Cart trollers to frighten the Ford Nation. Sorry pal but it’s preposterous. You scream and whine too loudly and make yourselves look as silly as it’s possible to look.

          • OgtheDim

            That story about Patton is apocryphal. The German army used horse carts throughout the war. Oxen were butchered for meat really quickly. If you found an ox in German controlled Europe after 1940, it was owned by a higher up in the Nazi Party.

            As I stated earlier, ur rhetoric is just laughable.

            The rest of that statement is just more of the same “I’m not scared of you” verbiage that comes right out of Grade 5 playground talk.

          • John_Marmalade

            “I’m not scared of you” verbiage ???????

            You’re grammar is much more than laughable. If I were you I’d ask my mother to see if she could get a refund from the teacher’s union.

            As for your flim flam that the Patton story is “apocryphal” my suggestion is this. The next time you’re in communication with Jack Layton or Mackenzie King on the Ouija board ask them to find out from Patton why he talked about it in a couple of letters to his wife. You can look them up in the Patton Papers edited by Martin Blumenson. You’ve called everyone else you hate a liar so you might as well nail General Patton while “ur” at it.

            There’s no fool like an NDP fool and the lot of you look as silly as it’s possible to look..

          • OgtheDim

            Yep, Grade 5 is just about right.

            (I had heard that this statement from Patton was apocryphal – I stand down from that word – the better word would be “false”)

            Knock yourself out there o crusading troll.

          • dsmithhfx

            The German military used massive numbers of horses right up until 1945, mainly due to a limited supply of petrol. You can say many things about the Germans, but militarily ineffective ain’t one. If Hitler hadn’t gone completely off the rails (no doubt due in part to prolonged cocaine abuse — Ford apologists take note), the political map would be very different.

          • OgtheDim

            Yes, because, you know, everybody that disagrees with you actually works for the city……….

            tin foil hat time?

          • dsmithhfx

            Wait a minute, Rob Ford works for the city too. Um… when he works… hmmmm.

          • OgtheDim

            Nah, he works for the taxpayers…..its a different thing.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            You really do want people taken away in container cars, don’t you?

          • John_Marmalade

            Good for you.

            It’s twenty years of stupid NDP remarks that caused almost 400,000 voters in the last election to take a shot a throwing you out. And there’ll be a better job done of it in October.

          • OgtheDim

            Mel was an NDP guy?

            Ur rhetoric is pricelessly inept.

          • John_Marmalade

            Yours is pricelessly childish

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Good for me identifying that you want people who don’t vote conservative rounded up and imprisoned? Well it wasn’t hard to see that coming, but I’m glad you’re open about your support for gulags and plutocracy.

          • rich1299

            Usually people just ignore trolls but I must admit you’re one of the more entertaining trolls I’ve seen in awhile.

          • dsmithhfx

            It usually takes about three days to transform a high-functioning troll into a babbling idiot. This one is responding to treatment.

          • bobloblawbloblawblah

            “My votes in the next election will be cast to eradicate the Miller, Mihevic,Layton, Vaughan, Clayton Ruby cabal that has been disrupting the orderly operation of city government for the last four years.”

            As opposed to the numbskull that got elected mayor in 2010 who thinks everyone should just do what he says. I don’t recall the circus pitching it’s tent at City Hall before 2010? If anyone is disrupting the oderly operation of government it’s the Ford goons who have spent the past four years attacking, vilifying and insulting those who disagree with them while dividing the populace of this town.

          • John_Marmalade

            You don’t remember the circus tent eh?

            It must be nice to live in a cosy little NDP world where you all tell yourself how fabulous it is.

            Unfortunately for you Toronto has been, on account of the NDP, a national disgrace and a laughing stock for a very long time, years.

            Since Miller showed up if someone asks me where I’m from, I think twice before I mention Toronto.

            I can assure you, the Toronto NDP is subject to open ridicule everywhere.

          • dsmithhfx

            “Toronto has been, on account of the NDP, a national disgrace and a laughing stock”

            I’m afraid it’s your large, crack-smoking hero that’s put us on the ridiculous map. Prior to that, we were respected as being a civilized, progressive city. If you ask anyone not from Canada about the NDP, you’ll draw a blank. Ask about Rob Ford and you’ll get a snigger: ‘WTF would you elect an ignorant, drug-besotted clown for mayor of your largest city?’. It’s a Jimmy Kimmel thing.

          • OgtheDim

            Your assurances mean squat.

            Nobody outside of your own little clique cares about this supposed NDP clan that seems to include

            Mel Lastman

            Shelly Carrol

            Karen Stintz

            David Shiner

          • John_Marmalade

            You’re obviously either drunk or smoked up.

          • dsmithhfx

            And you admire that.

          • John_Marmalade

            This business of Chow resigning her NDP seat in parliament is going to cost the taxpayers a fortune. We’re going to have to run an expensive by-election to replace her that’s one thing but who gets to pay the severance payments to all the people she had working for her?

          • OgtheDim

            Remind me, who wanted an expensive by by-election when there was a council seat open?

          • John_Marmalade

            Too bad buddy but Olivia Chow has abandoned her seat and subjected us to the expensive cost of a by-election. The woman failed to honour her commitment and I’m obliged to pick up the tab for a by-election and for severance pay for her Ottawa employees. It’s disgraceful.

            It’s NDP at it’s best, let money roll and soak the taxpayers.

            Tell me again why anyone should voter for her?

          • dsmithhfx

            “why anyone should voter for her?

            Because the alternative is a crackhead tax-and-spend liar who wants to increase property taxes by a billion dollars?

          • OgtheDim

            And that’s the line that causes me to flag you.

          • TheSotSays

            Well OgDerp old buddy you can flag til your arm drops off but your $530,000 Chow is T-O-A-S-T.

            “Flag it, flag it, flag it.” We’ve heard it before Derp it’s the motto of the Marxist trollers.

          • John_Marmalade

            The NDP is on the frenzied run and I’m laughing hysterically.

            Of the 121 comments on this thread, 55 of them are diatribes against me for voicing support of Rob Ford. It reminds me of one of those old African explorer movies where the jungle warning drums would start up when Henry Stanley showed up on the shore of Lake Tanganyika.

          • dsmithhfx

            It’s hilarious, and also a little sad, that all you can talk about is “the NDP”. I think it proves that Ford Nation can smell a Chow victory and you are terrified. Relax, she doesn’t bite. Things can only get better. Rob can slink away to rehab if the cops don’t get him first, and you get to go back to barbecues, two-fours and backyard slagging matches with the neighbors. You had your fun but really, politics is beyond your ken.

          • John_Marmalade

            I can smell something over there but it’s not a “Chow victory.”

          • dsmithhfx

            ‘He that smelt it, dealt it.’

          • Ahala

            You’re absolutely right. Ford restored dignity and respect to the office of mayor. Nobody’s laughing at us now. We, as an electorate, are not the butt of late-night talk show hosts’ jokes (like we were during Miller’s term), and no one in the rest of Canada wonders how we could be so stupid as to even consider re-electing an admitted crack user.

          • bobloblawbloblawblah

            Toronto elected 7 or 8 NDP MPs in 2011. Chow, who was one those MPs is regarded as a front runner in the Mayoralty race polling consistently at 35% or above. That’s a strange way for people to ridicule the Toronto NDP.

      • dsmithhfx
      • tyrannosaurus_rek

        If you want to talk numbers and finances do so, don’t invoke crap like “made us safe” and “stealing form young children”. Garbage trucks weren’t endangering anyone more than any other truck on the 401 under Miller, and it wasn’t Miller who went on strike – he may have screwed up the resolution to the strike, but asking for concessions from the union is something that should make Ford Nationistas happy.

        Oh, but wait: Rob Ford voted against the motion that ended the strike. Huh? Rob Ford voted to keep stealing the summer from children? He voted to keep people dumping garbage in residential areas?

        • dsmithhfx

          Yep, little known fact among Fordfandom: Rob wanted to keep the strike going as long as possible, for cynical political reasons. He didn’t give a rats’ ass about the suffering of his (or any) constituents.

          So he got himself elected mayor on the back of the strike (oh, so that’s why he voted to continue the strike…), and went on to privatize garbage collection east of Yonge.

          The estimated amount “saved” by doing that (until the contract expires, then we’ll find out who’s in the driver’s seat) scarcely amounts to a rounding error on the billion-plus dollars Ford now wants to waste on replacing the fully-paid for Scarborough LRT with an unneeded subway.

          Ford saved a little, and wastes a whole lot more. That’s the takeaway, kids.

          • OgtheDim

            To be fair, everybody on the right voted against that, including Stintz.

            At the time, they saw the agreement as not good enough.

            That and they were usually voting against Miller stuff as a matter of course.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            So they were doing stuff Marmalade is accusing the “NDP” on council of doing this term. But it’s OK when they do it I guess, because double standard.

          • OgtheDim

            Yup.

            It was one of the most dysfunctional councils going. Miller’s staff treated the right who disagreed like pariahs and the right lapped it up like dogs to vomit. To be fair, Miller did include quiet a few right wing voices – but they were drowned out at the exec level.

            I am hoping that OC’s staff won’t do that but given her election team seems to be running this race like it was 2002 all over again, I’m not so sure.

          • Notcleverguy

            Ford conveniently took all his own personal garbage to a dumpster at Deco that was hauled away by a private company. The garbage strike didn’t personally effect him at all. Of course he voted against ending the strike.He doesn’t give a s**t about anyone but himself.

          • John_Marmalade

            Ford has the right approach as far as I’m concerned and the sooner the NDP is out of there, the better off we’ll all be.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            It’s not going to happen, so please hold your breath.

          • dsmithhfx

            We can’t afFORD anymore of this buffoon and his criminal stooges at city hall.

            The sooner he is frog marched in cuffs out of there the better. Heck, he’ll even get rehab in prison!

            Win, win, win.

          • John_Marmalade

            By the looks of the paper this morning the Dalton McGinty crew will be the first in line for prison rehab. and frog marching lessons.

          • OgtheDim

            If they did something illegal, sure.

            Does this excuse Ford?

            Nope.

          • John_Marmalade

            Why not, Ford seems to excuse Olivia Layton of the NDP – The Nut-Bars in Denial Party.

          • dsmithhfx

            And that clinches the argument. Well done, Agent Marmalade!

      • iSkyscraper

        Just so we’re clear.

        You’ve drunk the kool-aid pretty hard. And enough people bought those twisted half-truths in 2010 to put Ford in office. No doubt about it, and I don’t blame them for it. Wasn’t my candidate, but I can see how some thought at the time that he would be a good fiscal manager.

        Except that he isn’t, is he? I mean, he means well, in a simpleton sort of way, but he spends money like crazy where it suits him. It’s nice to want to build subways, for example, but build them where they make sense, not where they are wasting “taxpayer” dollars. He wastes staff time on Deco Labels while skipping other issues. He calls BMO Stadium “corporate welfare” but not investing to help Porter. Deep down, he’s a rather dimwitted populist, and I think you know that.

        The other little thing is that it is 2014, not 2010. There is no David Miller anywhere to be seen. Lots of other fiscal conservative to choose from. And you really should, since no matter what the fiscal performance it is entirely unacceptable to have a crack-addled, vodka-swilling football coach pretending to be the mayor.

        As for that little Detroit shot, you might want to revisit your analogies. It’s not about avoiding Detroit – for a million reasons that are over your head that will never happen (and what happened there had very little to do with spending) – it’s about trying to be more like places like New York, Chicago and LA – cities that are investing nonstop in how to make themselves more livable and more functional. They don’t just run around saying “no” to everything (or “yes” to putting subways right to your driveway).

        I feel bad for you, because it’s very sad to see any human being still clinging to Ford at this point. Go outside, take a deep breath, and start over again. Good boy.

      • Ahala

        If we apply the “math” that Ford’s used to back up his one-billion
        dollar claim to Miller’s second term, then Miller “saved” 1.4 billion.
        This just demonstrates how disingenuous Ford’s claim is. 30 million in
        increased user fees is not savings, it’s an additional cost to citizens.
        Drawing 25.5 million from social assistance/housing reserve funds is
        not savings.

        • John_Marmalade

          Miller overtaxed the ratepayers, added $6.5 blllion to the City’s liabilities and let the Gardiner fall apart in disrepair.

          Most people in charge of the City would look after the infrastructure but Miller hated cars and let his ideology leave us with a billion dollar repair bill. It was irresponsible and those who sat there with him, and agreed to it, should be prevented from ever holding public office again.

          • OgtheDim

            LOL. Yeah, the Gardiner is ALL Miller’s fault.

            Who started the study to get it fixed?

            Miller.

            Who KILLED the study to get it fixed?

            Ford.

            Talk about irresponsible….

          • John_Marmalade

            Miller overtaxed the ratepayers, and added $6.5 blllion to the City’s liabilities.
            Those numbers are from the publicly available audited financial statements, Schedule 70, line 9940.

            Miller and his NDP lackies also allowed the Gardiner Expressway to fall into disrepair

            Ford has one vote out of 45 and he will only cast that vote in favour of something if it meets what he considers to be his mandated standard. Those standards are MY standards as well as the standards of the almost 400,000 voters who supported him in the last election.

            Ford is thereby the only member of council who can be trusted absolutely, to act as he promised he would. It may be worth nothing to you but it’s worth plenty to others.

            .

          • dsmithhfx

            Except he never promised to cut city services, raise property taxes by a billion dollars, or trigger an ongoing police investigation into his personal affiliations with gang-bangers.

            That’s got everyone wondering what else he hasn’t promised. Everyone except you, apparently.

            Dude, wake up and smell the coffee: the Ford era is a footnote in a joke book. Don’t make yourself the butt of it.

          • OgtheDim

            As mentionned in other places

            Miller – starts a Gardiner investigation and study

            Ford – stops it, does nothing for 2 years

      • rich1299

        Someone, I forget who offhand, figured out that according to Ford’s math Miller saved the city $1.5 billion in his last term. Toronto’s credit rating also improved with Miller as mayor.

  • iSkyscraper

    And if Ford wants to run on his record, how has managed the magic trick of saying that his fiscal record is a predictor of the future, but not his personal record?

    Here are some possible responses for the other candidates next time Ford trots out his lines:

    “I’m running on my record”
    “You mean your record as a drug abuser and getting drunk instead of going to work?”

    “You see what I’ve accomplished.”
    “You mean getting criminally investigated for being both drunk AND high?”

    “You talk about finding efficiencies, I’ve already found them!”
    “You mean the most efficient route from the mayor’s office to a crack den?”

    “That personal stuff is all rewind rewind rewind”
    “I’m sure many voters would like to rewind right back to the 2010 election.”

    etc.

  • ShabbaRich

    Ford’s opponents need to reframe the personal behaviour question in such a way that he can’t simply answer that he’s “not perfect.”

    Something like, “Mr. Ford, since you evidently believe that smoking crack with and consorting with known drug gang members does not make you unfit for the Mayor’s office, can you think of any personal activity that *would* disqualify someone from being Mayor?”

    And if he still prevaricates, throw some examples at him “What about being charged with drunk driving? domestic abuse? tax evasion? pedophilia? Would that make someone unfit to sit as mayor?”

    A good debater should be able to paint him into a corner with this kind of approach.

    • OgtheDim

      Edit out the pedo word and the tax evasion thing and I agree.

    • bobloblawbloblawblah

      I agree with Og. I’d take out the wife abuse too. Drinking, partying, hanging out with gun running gangster, ignoring his duties, is enough to use against him. I believe that at some point a few of the other candidates is going to hit him hard. Chow is showing some toughness and Tory needs to shed his Mr. Rogers “nice guy” image(pun alert!) and come out swinging against our scoundrel Mayor.

      • ShabbaRich

        He’s already made clear that he doesn’t believe “drinking, partying, hanging out with gun running gangsters, ignoring his duties” disqualifies anyone from being mayor.

        Aggressive attacking him on this will only get his standard stock response that he’s “not perfect”.

        Instead, ask him a hypothetical about what personal transgressions, in his view, would disqualify someone from the mayor’s office. He would be trapped on a sliding morality scale.

    • torontothegreat

      He deflected this already to Galloway.

      “I don’t talk in hypotheticals. Are you accusing me of *insert crime here*?”
      “I haven’t been found guilty of anything”

      There is literally nothing that you can throw at this guy. He just baffles everyone with the length of bullshit he’ll talk.

      • OgtheDim

        That wasn’t very convincing on his part though. The tactic here is not to get Ford flustered – its to peal away support from him one “oh my Gosh, you mean he did THAT” reaction at a time.

        • TheSotSays

          If you think in the wake of all the blatant NDP attacks on Ford over the last four years you can start trying to “peal away support” you’re badly disillusioning yourself.

          The main reaction to that stunt these days is “Check this out, look what the wackos are trying to pull off now, har har har!”

          • torontothegreat

            This is sadly true.

        • torontothegreat

          Not very convincing to who? You? A person with a bias against him? Surprising :P

          “oh my Gosh, you mean he did THAT”

          Unless you’re talking about some kind of new information that has surfaced in the last few minutes, it’s pretty well known what he’s done. Do you really think allowing him to talk or questioning him on things that have been repeated ad nauseam in the media is going to suddenly open someone’s eyes and peel them away as a supporter?

          Look, you’re NOT his target audience and attacking this problem from your own POV isn’t helpful.

      • ShabbaRich

        The guy has spent a lifetime evading authorities — agreed he’s damn good at it.

        But i believe Galloway asked him if he would step down if he was charged by the cops. That’s an attack, so he deflects.

        Frame the question not about him, but about his view of the Mayor’s office. Does he really believe a mayor’s personal behaviour is completely irrelevant so long as he’s saving taxpayers money?

        • torontothegreat

          “Does he really believe a mayor’s personal behaviour is completely irrelevant so long as he’s saving taxpayers money?”

          Yes and so do a lot of Torontonians unfortunately.

  • OgtheDim

    Martineau sounds more and more like a guy bored with his job.

    • dsmithhfx

      Talking head marking time, doing what he’s told.

    • Steveinto

      He started to sound like that a long time ago, I believe he is the only original city TV staff left after Rogers took over.

      • rich1299

        It was Bell who took over City TV, not Rogers and its been downhill ever since for a once great station.

        • OgtheDim

          Originally, yes.

          But Steve is right in that Rogers took over from Bell when Bell was forced to sell.

          • rich1299

            I could’ve sworn I saw “Bell Media” on the side of their building at Queen and John not very long ago at all. Did they sell to Rogers recently? I haven’t been paying attention to the business end of TV but I pass the building at Queen and John fairly regularly.

          • OgtheDim

            CITY moved to near Dundas Square.

          • rich1299

            Thanks, just found out CP24 and City TV were split up from another comment, I didn’t know that, I don’t have cable TV and can’t get City TV OTA where I know live.

  • andrew97

    When was the last time anything interesting or worthwhile happened at a televised debate? Honestly, I’m not sure why anybody bothers anymore, except for tradition.

    • tyrannosaurus_rek

      I’d rather see them answer questions from the electorate than bounce off each other trying to score points.

      • dsmithhfx

        Once upon a time, most politicians started out as courtroom lawyers. That might have been bad in all sorts of ways, but at least they knew a turn of phrase.

        Now it seems all we have are uncouth bellowing belligerents vs. simpering, stammering milquetoasts, neither of which are capable of forming, let alone delivering a coherant thought.

  • bjhtn

    The problem is that all the lies have (or, to the casual observer, give the impression of having) a grain of truth to them. “OK, but it was only library workers. So people couldn’t borrow books for a little while.” “OK, so it wasn’t exactly a billion dollars, but I saved money, right?” It’s like when people asked Bush why America was acting unilaterally in the Middle East, and he said, “Well, you forgot about Poland.”

  • Ahala

    Is Rob Ford aware that libraries have workers?

  • Ryan

    Probably because none of them noticed there was a library strike … just like majority of Toronto didn’t know.

    But they all knew what he was referring to .. so does everyone in Toronto.

    When Miller was Mayor.. I couldn’t get to work one day when the TTC striked . Over a thousand students lost their summer jobs and our city lost millions in tourism when the city Union when on Strike for 3 months and turned Toronto into a Landfill site. It was disgusting .

    Library Strike Really ?
    Was the city crippled ? Did it mean people couldnt access books ?NO- there is this thing called the internet – you can even go to chapters or indigo and read a book in their store for free… No one brought it up because it really didn’t matter

    • tyrannosaurus_rek

      June 22nd to July 27th was not three months, it was 36 days. Are you thinking of the 2012 York Region transit strike? That was three months long.

    • OgtheDim

      So what you are saying is that precision and RoFo don’t need to co-exist?

      Says the guy who on another thread is seeking precision about the word extortion……..

      • TheSotSays

        Can you please offer up a little precision on the word “clinic.”

        • OgtheDim

          Ur assumption that I give a darn about what Layton did 20 odd years ago is mistaken.

          • TheSotSays

            “Ur” assumption that I made any assumption about you is badly mistaken.

            “Ur” is an interesting word. Did your NDP kindergarten teacher “learn” you that one?

  • Ryan

    In 2005 – Chow voted against Metrolinx plan to use LRT/GO train track for York University service which would cost the city nothing and helped approve with a vote of yes to “an inferior” subway which is currently being built from Downsview to Vaughan – cost city 800 million – So why are LRT’s better in Scarborough miss Chow ? Why is ford’s scarborough subway a waste of money but Spadina University Extension was money well spent – and something you fought for when you were a councilor ?

    Why are you against privatising Garbage ? I enjoy the new service ITS GREAT- and according to city hall report – complaints west of Yonge have dropped 89% since it was contracted out …. Ford has the best platform and has done more than anyone else – NDP mayors support strikes of service that effect people … all these little things people nit pick about are retarded …

    • tyrannosaurus_rek

      In 2013 Rob Ford smoked crack cocaine and spent the better part of a year lying to the people of Toronto about it. It’s strange that you defend criminal behaviour.

    • OgtheDim

      Revisionism.

      LRT was not considered by city council or Metrolinx for that stretch due to pressure from the Libs at Queens Park.

      And a bit of a logic fail in that you argue that one subway is inferior which makes the other subway not.

      Frankly, both are bad choices.

      Thankfully, we can still stop wasting over a $BILLION in hard earned taxpayers money by stopping the subway to a Canadian Tire.

      Why you insist on wasting money is strange.