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27 Comments

politics

Duly Quoted: Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly, on Early Morning Hockey and Beer

“Go Canada Go! You’re either invested in the hockey supremacy of Canada or you’re not. I don’t know how many people will take advantage of it, but for that short period of time and for that purpose, I’m all for it.”

—Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly, after being asked by CP24 whether he supports a motion Councillor Mike Layton (Ward 19, Trinity-Spadina) plans to put forward next week that would permit bars to open at 6 a.m. for Olympic hockey. As Layton explained, “I don’t imagine it’s that folks are going to be taking advantage of it at 7 in the morning, but when that third period hits, and it’s 10:30, just before restaurants and bars can start serving alcohol, I don’t see any harm in that. …Particularly for the medal-contending games, why not relax it a little bit.”

Comments

  • OgtheDim

    Facepalm…………

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    Here’s an idea: let bars set their own hours, regardless of sporting events in distant time zones.

    • CaligulaJones

      The current times certainly screw shift workers. The idea that we can’t have bars open at 10am because an alcoholic might start earlier is ridiculous. That person is either still drunk, or doesn’t need a bar to start at 10am.

      Treating people like adults? What a concept.

      • HotDang

        The best alcoholics are pretty inventive.

        • CaligulaJones

          Speaking from the experience of coming from an alcoholic family, agreed. During renovations, we’re still finding bottles various family members hid…

          They weren’t sophisticated enough to do a Frank Gallagher, though (inside Shameless quote there…). As far as we can tell.

      • OgtheDim

        Personally I’m more concerned about binge drinkers not stopping from the night before.

        Question though: are most drunk drivers alcoholics?

        The opening hours of bars rule is there because its not a good idea to have people as easily able to get drunk that early in the day. When people stop drinking and driving, then we can treat alcohol consumption in an adult way. Until, then, unfortunately, we can’t.

        Find the balance……..and 6 am in the morning is not a balance.

        • tyrannosaurus_rek

          Beer and wine bottles can be opened at any time of the day. Should the LCBO stop selling to people who might drink outside designated times? Should the Beer Oligarchy demand tallboys and mini kegs come with time locks?

          “When people stop drinking and driving, then we can treat alcohol consumption in an adult way.”

          Should we all be in prison because some people won’t stop it with the murdering and the stealing?

          • OgtheDim

            Last I read, I wasn’t suggesting people go to prison for wanting to drink at 6 in the morning.

            Again…balance. We all know people drink all day long. No need to feed that actively, just because somebody can’t make money off a TV watching event without selling beer.

          • dsmithhfx

            I was just reading how the Russians are selling alcohol-free beer at olympics events (‘it tastes like water from a boot’), because Russian fans who drink *more* (implying they’re already drunk when they show up) are apt to get out of control. If people want to get drunk/smoke crack/whatever in the privacy of their own home, fine. Bars are kind of out in public, though, and the activities in bars impinge on neighbors. So yeah, I agree opening hours need to be regulated for the public good.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Why is it OK for the activities in bars to take place at 10PM but not 10AM? And why should we base our municipal bylaws on Russia’s alcoholism epidemic? Is it your belief that bars being closed from 2 to 11 AM is the only thing stopping everyone from drinking uncontrollably? Or would serving beer at 9AM somehow cancel all the other bylaws and restrictions bars face with regards to serving alcohol?

          • torontothegreat

            +1

          • dsmithhfx

            -1

          • dsmithhfx

            “And why should we base our municipal bylaws on Russia’s alcoholism epidemic?”

            I dunno. Why should we base our municipal bylaws on your aspirational alcoholism?

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            “If people want to get drunk/smoke crack/whatever in the privacy of their own home, fine.”

            I guess that makes you a crack addict.

          • macsrw

            the “Public Good” often forgets those of us who do not work 9-5. Extending hours does not annihilate the fact that it is illegal to sell alcohol to people who are wasted. This would be as true at 5am as it is at 10pm. Our current alcohol laws are self-defeating and puritanical. For instance, the strict clampdown on underage drinking encourages kids to buy as large and strong a drink as possible (and there are always ways around the system), and drink it all down because that maximizes the difficult job of securing alcohol. I think Germany has the right idea in making Beer and Wine legal at 16, and hard alcohol legal at 18. And also not being insane about people under 15 drinking beer or wine. Less 17 year old Germans down bottles of Wisers this way.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            What balance? Nobody should be able to drink alcohol before 11AM at a bar or restaurant because there are alcoholics (who drink whenever they want already)? Restricting everyone’s activity for the sake of a few is hardly balanced.

          • dsmithhfx

            Maybe you need to be in Rob Ford’s entourage…

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Because I must be a raging alcoholic?

          • dsmithhfx

            You seem to have lost all perspective on this. Why do you think it’s soooo important for those who lacked the foresight to stock up the day before, and not drink it all, be allowed to buy alcohol in a bar early in the day? W.T.F?

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            I think you’ve lost sight of why Layton is proposing this (temporary) change to bar hours: watching hockey at a bar is primarily a social experience. Going to the bar is generally a social experience, sports or no sports.

            I don’t know what sort of crappy upbringing you had that you think anyone who goes to a bar or wants a mimosa or stout with their breakfast is a loutish alcoholic just waiting for an opportunity to do harm to “the public good”, but it just isn’t true. Bars are not safe injection sites and their patrons are not desperate addicts needing a fix.

          • dsmithhfx

            “Here’s an idea: let bars set their own hours, regardless of sporting events in distant time zones.”

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            The reason for that is the same reason behind Layton’s proposal.

          • dsmithhfx

            Sorry, I just can’t see this as a burning issue, in fact it’s silly, it’s a non-issue. We know that prohibition hasn’t worked, just as we know that total lack of regulation hasn’t worked, and that alcohol is extremely destructive both socially and of health, far more so than many banned substances. Anything that helps to reduce that harm is not something to be lightly tossed aside for the sake of some spectator sport or to convenience shift workers. Maybe if we had no other problems this would merit the degree of urgency you attach to it. Something to look forward to, I guess.

          • tyrannosaurus_rek

            Who said it’s a burning issue? I understand you have a problem with alcohol, but you’re projecting your misunderstanding of why people drink (an all-consuming need to be trashed 24/7, it sounds like) and how the majority of the population experiences alcohol (to get black-out-drunk before going on a rampage of destruction in the streets, in your world) onto what I suggested.

            Your justification for keeping the ban – to protect us from ourselves – is patronizing and misapplied. 17% of all deaths in Canada is caused by tobacco, which can be sold in nearly any store, doesn’t have restrictions on the time of sale, and can be consumed openly in the streets. Alcohol, on the other hand, accounts for just under 8% of all deaths – but you have to include drunk driving, suicides, poisonings, accidents, etc, to get that number. 80% of Canadians drink, but only 20% smoke. How’s that for perspective?

          • dsmithhfx

            Go cry in your beer.

          • macsrw

            What about people who work the night shift? Should they not be able to go for a beer with their co-workers when their shift ends?

    • macsrw

      As a bartender, I thoroughly agree. The idea that it would screw shift workers over is false. There is a reason why most retail stores are not open 24/7, even though it is perfectly legal for them to do so. Fact is, most people would not be at a bar at 4am. Indeed, it would allow a large amount of bartenders and servers, who work till 3 anyways, to go out for a night cap with their co-workers.

      Our liquor laws seem to be based around the idea that everybody works 9-5, monday to friday. For some shift workers, having a pint at 7am is having a pint at the end of their day. Mainstream society has seemed to have built up this idea that anybody who drinks on a Monday past 3am must be a jobless loser. In actuality, many of them are hard workers, for whom Monday night is their Friday night. What really grinds my gears personally is the LCBO closing at 6 on sundays. Sundays are my worst shift, and they end at 6, and I cant even get a bottle of beer to unwind afterwards? Whats up with that?