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Dare We Assign a Human Face to Gun Crime?

Denying the perpetrators their humanity may comfort us, but it won't address the causes of violence.

Of all the emotions being expressed in the wake of several recent shootings, feelings of futility and helplessness loom large as reactions to crimes most of us cannot comprehend. Why do people carry handguns to social events? Why do they fire their weapons indiscriminately into crowds of people they may not even know? How can society possibly deter a person who has decided, with premeditation or in a moment of blind passion, to settle a score with fatal force?

It’s understandable that we don’t have substantive answers to these questions. Most of us cannot imagine ourselves as the person pulling the trigger at a crowded mall or a community barbecue. The trouble is that for some people in our society, the act of carrying a weapon and using it to resolve conflict is something they consider necessary for survival. Even as we abhor and condemn that reality, we must accept that it is a feature of the city we inhabit rather than a manifestation of evil that functions completely outside social influence.

John McKay, the Liberal MP for the riding where the recent Danzig Street shooting occurred, told the Globe and Mail, “I frankly don’t know that any legislation can deal with something like this…. This is some immature individual who decided that they are going to solve their problems at the end of a barrel of a gun.” Scarborough city councillor Michael Thompson went a step further by suggesting that outreach workers in priority neighbourhoods cannot intervene in real instances of gun violence: “I don’t think the outreach workers would have prevented anything last night and I dare say they would have been running for their lives.”

Acts of gun violence represent such a departure from our social context that we sometimes imagine the remedy must address that incomprehensible moment when a civilian reaches for a handgun—that moment, and not any of the ones that preceded it. Outreach workers are not bulletproof, so they appear ineffectual in the face of supposedly senseless shootings by supposedly irrational actors. In this context, civilians withdraw from the situation and leave the police, who seem somewhat more bulletproof than the rest of us, to confront an issue that appears to be beyond our influence.

Are we prepared to accept that the average citizen has no role in confronting the violence in our communities, or permitting the conditions that give rise to it to persist? Is our fear and dehumanization of the perpetrators so strong that we see them as extra-social agents without rational motives or redeeming human qualities? For those who say yes to these questions, a perpetual state of war against the perceived enemy is a natural response, even if we know we cannot kill, capture, or drive out every person capable of committing these crimes. This same mentality allows us to congratulate ourselves when we stop spending money to reintegrate those who are jailed for gun crimes. Since they are beyond help, we can only imprison them for as long as possible to defer their inevitable return to chaos and destruction in our streets.

We should take a moment to reflect on our collective inability to assign a human impulse to the mostly young, mostly black men committing these crimes. We should also challenge commentators who claim that the “black community” is somehow better equipped to engage people who presumably have no moral compass and no connection to the wider society. The idea that black people can produce unrepentant monsters in a social vacuum, then lose control over them to the larger society’s misfortune, shows a desperation on the part of some people to distinguish their existence and humanity from the people they fear.

The criminals who are causing us to rethink the safety of our city are human beings operating in a human context. We must hold them to account, but we cannot confront them or the communities in which they live with inhumane prisons, racial-profiling measures, and acts of state-sponsored retributive violence that only reinforce our estrangement from them. We must open ourselves to the possibility that people who commit unthinkable acts of violence also have the capacity to imagine a different role for themselves in our communities. Once we deny them the ability to make a different choice, we can only ask our police, courts, and jails to counter violence with violence, and pray we are lucky enough to avoid the fallout.

Comments

  • http://twitter.com/torontomyway Toronto My Way

    Why is all the focus on the demand side of gun violence? GUN VIOLENCE HAS A SUPPLY SIDE. http://torontomyway.blogspot.ca/2008/02/gun-violence-has-supply-side.html

    Why, in all the right wing rhetoric and big media sensationalism and misinformation, is there not fair and balanced representation of the statistical facts that show Toronto has been averaging amongst the lowest “big city” homicide rate for the last thirty years? Its 1.8 murder rate per 100,000 citizens is far below Canada’s leading city Regina’s 4.72, and not even a blip on the radar across North America with rates over 40 per 100,000 in several cities.
    http://torontomyway.blogspot.ca/2009/03/toronto-boring.html

    If Toronto’s murder rate is DOWN over the last 30 years, why the alarm bells about “what’s happening to Toronto?” From 2.3 to 1.8 to 1.6 (depending upon whom you ask), and based on a population of 2.6 million, 2.8 million or 3 million, Toronto will post approximately 50 murders per year. In 2012, by the end of June, we had posted 25 murders. Do the math – 1.8/100,000 x 3 million = 54 murders. If so, 25 murders in six months extrapolates to approximately 50 murders by the end of the year – TORONTO IS BELOW PACE.

    If these facts are ignored in all the chatter about “what to do with gun violence,” then any efforts to truly reduce the violence is smoke and mirrors and political blustering.

    • Maedchen

      So… your saying that because we have lower gun crime rates than other places, we should stop discussing how to lower it further? I personally am thrilled that Toronto has lower rates than other places, however I will not think it’s an ‘acceptable’ number until it’s 0. If it was your friends or family who were wielding the gun or being shot at I wonder if you would still consider this an ‘acceptable sacrafice’ in the big city.

      • http://twitter.com/torontomyway Toronto My Way

        3 million people cannot have a 0 crime rate. That’s not reality. Toronto’s rate is about as close to 0 as is humanly possible.

        Of course it does not mean we stop discussing how to lower it further. So I ask you, if you’ve got a leak, do you keep buying bigger mops, or do you find the source, the supply of the leak?

        If we’re so serious about pursuing 0, then the supply side must enter the discussion. If it doesn’t, then we’re not really serious, and I can’t find anyone talking about it. So I am.

        • rudolf63

          Clifford Olsen, Russell Williams, Paul Bernardo, Robert Picton, Luca Magnotta – different situations entirely from the guns and gang violence in Toronto. Different types of crime require different solutions. The roots of Toronto’s gun crime can be directly linked to Canada’s immigration system going back 35 to 40 years, even 50 years. Take a look a “Valenttino’s” posting below for a complete explanation. As far as criminals like Bernardo and Russell Williams go, these are mutants which are very rare in society compared to Toronto’s gang and gun situation. And frankly, there’s not much we can do about these types of crimes which will happen no matter what we do; they’re part of the human condition and they will occur in all societies. There’s little we can do to predict these crimes. But, Toronto’s gun crime (which didn’t exist 30 years ago) is a very specific type of crime with very specific causes which I believe can be solved through stricter immigration policies.

      • Anonymous

        How did you get that from Toronto My Way’s comment? Did you have a gander at their blog? Its short and easy to read, to sum it up for you they’re arguing for better control, for keeping guns from entering Canada from the US and focusing law enforcement efforts on those that provide and sell guns in this city. That most definitely is a discussion about how to lower the gun crime rate in Toronto. One I very much agree with, in addition to addressing the social problems and inequalities in our society, such as children who have so little contact with their parents since they’re working 2-3 jobs just to keep them housed and fed, not to mention problems with addiction and mental health which do not get treated as seriously in our health care system as other medical problems.

        (Rant starts here) Sure CAMH just built some shiny new buildings, but to pay for them have cut staff and opened the buildings before they’re ready to be part of a functioning modern hospital. I have no doubt that if the new hospital buildings were for treating people with physical health problems they would never be allowed to open with the sort of technical problems/short comings those buildings currently have. Such as a phone system that doesn’t work at times and even when it is working doesn’t work very well at all and very basic things like making an appt by phone are hit and miss. There aren’t even enough phone lines for the reduced numbers of staff in the new buildings. All the staff I have encountered at CAMH have been total professionals and top notch, right from the cleaning staff, to the receptionists/admin people, security right up to the Drs and social workers. But they cannot do their jobs properly with such technical problems and staff shortages. Those new buildings shouldn’t have been opened before they were fully functional. Adequate numbers of good staff in an older building are far better than fewer staff in a new building, no matter how shiny it is. Okay that’s it for my rant.

        • http://twitter.com/torontomyway Toronto My Way

          And, a good rant it was. This entire crime conversation is complex. Dumbing it down to simply target already disenfranchised communities is utterly beneath the level of intellect at which a leading city’s conversations should be.

    • Anonymous

      “GUN VIOLENCE HAS A SUPPLY SIDE.”

      Guns?

      • http://twitter.com/torontomyway Toronto My Way

        No, sellers, who have the power to acquire vast supplies from foreign manufacturers, get them into Canada and onto the street, and make money doing so. What, did you think these kids buy guns from vending machines? Or that they are all produced through robbing licensed gun owners homes?

        Remember that stupid program where people could trade in guns for basketball game tickets? How stupid was that, considering those who traded in those guns knew they could go out after the basketball game and just buy themselves new guns?

        We’ve got to be smarter about this. And article after article focusing on the demand side of the equation is not smart.

        • Anonymous

          Are you suggesting we should shut down U.S. gun factories? WTF?

          • Anonymous

            No, he’s asking why few acknowledge or tackle this contributing factor, that it’s American guns killing Canadian teenagers, and instead sensationalize the crimes to sell papers and paint Toronto as a dangerous place.

          • Anonymous

            Yeah, that’s common knowledge and there’s not much, if anything we can do about it (apart from a handgun ban, of course).

            That’s why we have to focus on the demand side, by providing real options to gangs and guns. Jobs, education, income support and legalizing drugs about covers it. The Star’s Jim Coyle has pretty good analysis today: http://tinyurl.com/cfru5ua

          • Anonymous

            We should be working both sides, not one to the exclusion of the other. And while Toronto can’t do anything about illegal gun shipments coming across the border, the federal government can.

        • rudolf63

          If we didn’t have the DEMAND for guns (i.e., the willingness of people to buy the guns), then there wouldn’t be a SUPPLY of guns and we wouldn’t have a gun crime problem. People choose to buy the guns that are available in the market. They don’t have to buy those guns if they don’t want to. Nothing is forcing these people to buy guns. Yes, the suppliers of guns are scumbags, but they are not the ones doing the shooting even they know the results of selling their guns. Quash the SUPPLY of guns, and you quash gun crime.

    • Guest

      This has nothing to do with what the author was writing about… But I guess it’s a way to get people to see a link to your blog. Do you cut and paste this to every article with key words “guns”, “violence” and “Toronto”?

      • http://twitter.com/torontomyway Toronto My Way

        It’s not about “seeing my blog.” It’s about the elephant in the room that is not being addressed with anywhere near the misinformation that is fueling open racism in this talk about gangs and thugs and immigration reform and “deporting criminals so that we can enjoy our Canada free from imported crime.”

        The fact is, most illegal guns on the street A) weren’t made in Canada B) weren’t stolen from licensed gun owners. Therefore, they’re getting into the country through the dealings of people who can pay off border agents and manage logistics of shipments from foreign countries. They are making money, and will continue to do so by pushing guns.

        What’s the use of a longer sentence for a gun crime if the perpetrator is never apprehended?

        This is all subterfuge to “look busy.” The mayor says “jobs can help” but he votes down provincial funds that could help community training, education and job creation.

        I would gladly wait for the premiere, or the mayor, or the police chief, or the media to mention some statistical facts along with all their rhetoric, but they’re not doing it. So, rather than wait, I’m doing it. I’m a citizen getting involved in something more constructive than fear-mongering and sensationalist misinformation.

        And as for your concern that this has nothing to do with the article’s topic, let me make it simple for you – the article is focused, as are most others, on actions to address the perpetrators of gun violence; again, it’s talking about the demand side of the equation; it’s just one more article piling on the people at the end of the distribution channel. Wake up – guns are a business. The people who buy are just half the equation; the people who sell are profiting plenty more in the transaction, and as long as they are able to continue selling and making money, illegal guns will be on the street.

        Bust one kid with a gun or two, wonderful. Bust one gun running operation and you’ll take hundreds of guns off the street. You tell me what’s a more productive spend of tax payers’ dollars.

    • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

      Posting anonymous links to your own blog doesn’t seem to make people want to comment on it. Maybe try something else?

    • Rudolf63

      If there wasn’t a demand for guns, suppliers wouldn’t bring them here in the first place.

    • Rudolf63

      Toronto ranks low compared to cities like Chicago, for example, because we have one-quarter the Black population.

      • Scarborough Proud

        You’re a yutz on so many levels I can’t even begin to explain it to you.

        • rudol63

          Give it a try.

  • Guest

    This has nothing to do with what the author was writing about… But I guess it’s a way to get people to see a link to your blog. Do you cut and paste this to every article with key words “guns”, “violence” and “Toronto”?

  • http://twitter.com/BoGoWo BoGoWo

    exactly;
    if we deny an individual or a group their humanity long enough; it should not be surprising when they willfully discard it, and turn to ‘turf law’.

  • http://twitter.com/torontomyway Toronto My Way

    I’d like to apologize to Desmond Cole for appearing to redirect away from the thrust of his argument. His article is well-written and makes very good points regarding the stigmatization, marginalization, and dehumanization that hallmarks how groups of people are treated.

    This quote is especially powerful: “The criminals who are causing us rethink the safety of our city are human beings operating in a human context.”

    This is the level of conversation we need if we’re going to not just reduce gun crime, but support more people in society being able to live productive and contributing lives, for the betterment of all. Generally, we’re more motivated to react by focusing on the negative, rather than pro-act with efforts to stimulate the positive.

    We need more thoughtful insight to address causes, not rhetoric bandaging the symptoms. What’s the value in taking an aspirin for a headache if the headache is only the symptom of a tumor? Sure, take an aspirin, but we’ve got to deal with the tumor, because it will continue to cause pain, and worse, until its either removed or it kills us. In the meantime, getting addicted to pain killers comes with its own side effects and problems.

    • Guest

      I very much enjoy this post and analogy. I apologize for my previous writing contending your post was to garner interest in your blog. Addressing the supply side is central to the issue of violence in our city. I suppose I was upset with it because the article was about the dehumanizing of the perpetrators of this violence who live in this city with us and don’t operate outside of human context. It seemed to me the central point of the article was being disregarded and the common take on things was being responded to instead.

      • http://twitter.com/torontomyway Toronto My Way

        Yep, I agree with you that I seemed to disregard the central point of the article, hence my apology with thanks to you for speaking up.

    • Desmond Cole

      Thanks for this. You are right to talk about the supply of guns, and if we reduce that supply, we reduce the likelihood of gun violence. But I don’t merely want to focus on the weapons, because it is people who are deciding to use them. People who make those decisions have stories we rarely hear or seek out, perhaps because we don’t want to validate them. I want to hear those stories. Stay tuned and thanks again for your comments.

  • Anonymous

    I wanted to share this link comparing tough on crime to smart on crime policies:
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/07/norwegian-v-american-justice

  • http://www.facebook.com/markrockcity Маяк Сіту

    Desmond, you’re so black, you’re white, like a crazy diamond! ♥
    Sorry, that’s Portucanadian talk for saying that you tell the stark truth and you illuminate us : )

    I dare to assign a face—MY FACE! Or rather, to use a royal pronoun, ONE’S OWN FACE.

    No manner of legislation or “free money” will fix this problem. I personally KNOW these guys from Scarborough with the guns and the vendettas. But I’m not around in the burbs every day so no matter how much respect they may have for me as a friend, there are OTHER influences. My friends who see me often wouldn’t DARE show their piece in my hood. It doesn’t matter who did what to them, they wouldn’t want to see me express any disappointment in them, not even so much as a frown and a head shake.

    I wouldn’t mind shooting blindly into a crowd either, except there are people around whom *I* respect and I don’t want to lose THEIR confidence in me. Yes, there are other reasons like ethics, morals, procrastination, and all that but not every one is as equally fickle and scrupulous and lazy.

    THE ANSWER is that if you have nothing to do TODAY or WHENEVER, instead of watching television, head on down to Regent Park, Flemingdon, or near wherever you happen to live and TALK TO THEM. Let them know how YOU live and that YOU want to help THEM. Show them a better way—hell, YOUR way is definitely better than their way if you have the spare time to check your Torontoist feed. Just reach out with your hand open. They may not go for the bait but if enough people do it often, they’ll have no choice. And that means ZERO GUN CRIME if EVERYONE knows each other and everyone is watching.

    Who cares why we can’t all get along. Let’s just do so ANYWAY.

    • santiago bolano

      What a bunch of nothing bullshit, both from you and Desmond. Neither of you are saying anything, but the R in your name is backwards so you must be deep, right?

      You wouldn’t mind shooting blindly into a crowd, but there are people who would lose confidence in you if you did…fuck, get out of this city, you’re a psychopath. You ascribe NOT shooting up a public gathering to ethics, morals, procrastination, scrupulousness, fickleness, and laziness, all of which are qualities that are unrelated, and the fact that you equate morality with laziness is sickening.

      From the ages of 4-14 I went to school with kids from the jungle, and they were no different than anyone else. They didn’t need some sanctimonious motherfucker to go to Flemingdon and TALK TO THEM, they knew what they were doing, they knew there were people who cared for them and wanted them to do well in school and all that shit…but they ignored them because that shit is BORING. It’s not FUN or COOL ( like CAPS), and say whatever the hell you want about the panacea (you know about that fallacy, eh?) of social programs, but a lot of people get into the outlaw life for a simple, human reason: it’s fun. It’s more stimulating than making 40,000 in an office, typing and being safe and secure. And you know what? Regardless of the choices they made, those kids – and I kept in touch with a lot of them until the late teens/early 20s – were mostly pretty fucking smart.

      And a lot of them were fucking pussies, too, just like the guys you know who’d rather settle a score by firing wildly, endangering strangers, instead of fighting like a MAN.

      But that’s human nature, isn’t it?

      What these fuckers need is some morality, and spare me the demeaning bullshit about how poor children, or the children of single parents are at a disadvantage. Canadian society is the most moral and generous aside from Northern Europe and Scandinavia.

      These fuckers don’t need to be spoken to, they need their balls cut off so they can’t procreate, and abandon the demons the create to moronic women who are unequipped to care for them.

      I make $17,000 a year (and travel) – would you or Desmond defend me if I shot 25 people? After all, I’m “poor” so I can’t possible know right from wrong.

      ps perhaps these motherfucking cowards are the exceptions that prove the rule about the effectiveness of social programs…we have no crisis aside from the crisis of macho men who have no balls.

      • Rudolf63

        HERE HERE!!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/markrockcity Маяк Сіту

        The “R” in my name is backwards because I can’t use “City” as a last name in Facebook so I had to use the Russian alphabet for the whole name. I use CAPS for *emphasis*, not because I think it’s cool to do so. I’d have used bold or italics instead if I knew that I could.

        How is *concern for others* psychopathic? I only mentioned the first three—ethics, morals, and procrastination—as reasons not to fire a gun into a crowd. They are all reasons as to why I DON’T do something. Respectively, I COMPARED ethics to fickleness., morals to scrupulousness, and PROCRASTINATION to LAZINESS. By mentioning ethics and morality, I thought that would have implied that I also think it’s evil to shoot a gun into a crowd.

        I’m not defending anyone here for doing anything, no matter how much money they have. I only mention those poor neighbourhoods because that’s where I usually hear the most about shootings. I don’t hear much about it in the middle-class neighbourhood where I’m living now. If rich kids are also firing guns in public, I’d recommend to go where THEY live, too.

        And I’m not saying that anyone should go to them to give them lectures. I just feel that there has to be more of a sense of familiarity between everyone in the city, no matter how different their lives are. A strong sense of a greater community is needed to help build character, instill morals, to offer stimulating rewards for making healthy choices, and to provide effective disincentives against making the wrong ones. It’s not just too bad for them if they don’t have the support they need to be good people. It’s too bad for EVERYBODY.

        We can wish sterility on them all we want, or recommend good family planning, or point out their lack of some kind of masculinity or sense of responsibility, but that’s not actually going to make this city any safer for anyone. If WE want to make this city safer and then WE have to physically do something about it. That’s the only way. This problem isn’t going to fix itself.

    • Anonymous

      “I wouldn’t mind shooting blindly into a crowd either”

      Excuse me?

      • http://www.facebook.com/markrockcity Маяк Сіту

        I wouldn’t mind—IF there weren’t any negative consequences. Read the rest of the paragraph!

        • Anonymous

          I think you’re misunderstanding: It’s an idiotic thing to say, no matter what qualifiers follow.

          • http://www.facebook.com/markrockcity Маяк Сіту

            I was being facetious.

  • Patryk

    re: the shootings in colorado:

    “We live in an insane and violent culture. One that was founded upon mass genocide and slavery. We live in a culture that celebrates genocidal generals as “war heroes”, where military training happens in schools, where kids are bred from the youngest of ages to want to go conquer and occupy foreign countries. We live in a culture where it is always easier for people to get firearms than it is to get mental health treatment; where the only answer anyone seems to have for how this situation could have been dealt with revolves around the question of firearms. None of us heard a single person that has spoken on any media outlet, including alternative outlets, that spoke about the cultures of violence that surround us, or about access to mental health care, or necessary social services. All talk was centered on firearms: whether to ban them, or make sure the state gets more.”

    http://anarchistnews.org/content/denver-anarchist-black-cross-statement-mass-murder-aurora-century-16-movie-complex

  • Ok
    • patryk

      zine format can be annoying.. but still

  • Ok
  • Valentino

    It’s fascinating that all this gun crime in Toronto and other Canadian cities is bucking the downward trend of overall crime in Canada which is the lowest since 1972. So something is obviously very wrong with communities that produce criminals leading to the worst single event of gun violence in Canada’s history.
    So what’s the problem? It’s very simple: the massive influx of immigrants from poor crime ridden countries, which has been going on for decades, and which is the primary reason why Toronto has a long history of gun violence going back to the early 1980′s with the shooting of convenience store clerk Barbara Turnbull by Jamaican immigrants. Since then, gun violence in Toronto has steadily become more frequent and more brazen claiming many innocent victims like, for example, Jane Creba, and the more recent victims in the Dansig Street shooting in Scarborough. How many times have I heard the phrase: “There has been another shooting in Scarborough…”?
    So, how has immigration from poor crime ridden countries led to all the mayhem on Toronto’s streets? Again, simple: we have women immigrating to Canada who already have too many kids they can’t support, or after they come here, get knocked up by anything in puffy pants who, either, abandon the mothers, or are told to get lost by the mothers who keep getting knocked up until their desires for status and identity have been fulfilled even though, as poor single mothers, are not able to properly raise these kids who ultimately become our next generations of gun criminals.
    So, what’s the answer? Stop bringing people into Canada who are destined to live in poverty, and who are destined to continue the cycles of gun violence in Toronto due to this poverty. Stop bringing in low skilled or no skilled poverty stricken people from poor destitute crime ridden parts of the world. If we can do this, and then allow the current and potential crop of gun criminals to either naturally or through intervention grow out of these motivations for gun violence, or to get killed off through attrition (because, most victims of gun violence are gun criminals themselves – so, who gives a shit about them anyway), then we will FINALLY SOLVE most of Toronto’s gun violence instead of TALKING about it all the time which is what has been done In this city for the past 30 years you FUCKING PATHETIC BLEEDING HEARTS!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/markrockcity Маяк Сіту

      Doesn’t Israel have a similar policy against certain groups of people they feel are unfit to live in their state?

      Gun crime has been dropping in recent years but this year we see a spike which may or may not be the start of a new trend towards sustained or escalating gun crime.

      We can’t determine what people’s destinies are when they come here without the process of determination ITSELF affecting their future. And what kind of solution is it to just let people shoot whomever until they kill each other off, along with any unlucky innocent bystanders? I, for one, actually care about them. I could never justify anything they may do, but as a Canadian, I support everyone’s right to life and safety of person.

      Your so-called answer doesn’t seem very well thought-out. How about we instead make sure that everyone here has what they need to stay out of poverty and also to properly raise their children? That doesn’t depend on us foretelling others’ misfortunes, or hoping that others will somehow lose the motivation to commit gun crimes on their own, or letting the bullets fly where they may.

      The problem isn’t that it’s impossible to do what I propose. The problem is that you don’t want to do it. The problem is that we don’t follow the same leader. But we ARE still on the same team and we DO have to solve this together, despite our differences.

      And I am NOT a bleeding heart. I won’t feel sorry for them and their lot in life if they do nothing to improve it and I won’t feel sorry for you for being so powerless to stop any of this if all you do is tell other people what’s what without making any real contributions. I don’t have to go on talking about this, either. The math is all done and all that’s left is to SHOW it. If you can demonstrate that your way even makes any sense whatsoever then let’s see what you got. Give me facts, figures, and LOGICAL arguments without emotion and opinion that only serve to waste everyone’s time and energy. Surprise me!

      • rudolf63

        Why don’t YOU produce the numbers specifically relating to inicidents of gun crime in Toronto/GTA going back ten, twenty, even thirty years?? And, I’m not referring to overall crime rates which are irrelevant.

        • http://www.facebook.com/markrockcity Маяк Сіту

          I wasn’t concerned with that long a history. I only mention recent years, i.e., from 2006. My numbers were from [http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/statistics/ytd_stats.php]. They just updated that page since I posted my comment above so now it starts from 2008 but it still shows the numbers dropping from then up to last year.

  • rudolf63

    Unfortunaely, another aggrevating factor to the gun violence scene in Toronto is that we have a large population of young people who tend, simply because of their racial identity, to embrace the gangster rap gun culture. So, when things go wrong in their lives, they look the gun culture for sustenance, validation, and power by rejecting main stream society, law and order, and cviilized behavior.