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26 Comments

politics

Duly Quoted: Thomas Cardinal Collins, Archbishop of Toronto

“I question, however, why provincial legislation should make [gay-straight alliances] normative in a Catholic school, which has its own different but effective methods for attaining the goal of addressing bullying and providing personal support for all students, ones which…arise out of its own fundamental principles… If the point is that there is something unacceptable about those Catholic principles, then I find that troubling… [P]lease consider the implications for all when legislation is enacted that overrides the deeply held beliefs of any faith community, and intrudes on its freedom to act in a way that is in accord with its principles of conscience.”

—From a statement released yesterday by the archbishop of Toronto [PDF], in protest of the Liberal government’s announcement that it would include specific language protecting the creation of gay-straight alliances in its anti-bullying legislation.

Comments

  • Eric S. Smith

    If the point is that there is something unacceptable about those Catholic principles, then I find that troubling…

    I think it’s pretty clear that, going into this, everyone was agreed that above all else, it was important to avoid troubling an archbishop. And now look what’s happened.

  • http://twitter.com/Welshgrrl Vashty Hawkins
  • Anonymous

    “… in a Catholic school, which has its own different but effective methods for attaining the goal of addressing bullying”
    There doesn’t seem to be much evidence that their measures are “effective”

    • Mlostracco

      The different but effective methods:

      1. Bullying is wrong! Love your neighbour as yourself!
      2. God hates you.

  • Best guest

    Catholicism has never been wrong in history…. right? Right??? RIGHT??????

  • Joe

    Religion poisons everything! Create one secular public school and separate the church and the state once and for all! Using public money? Then you will be guided by public policy. Let these teenagers name their clubs whatever they choose!

  • Canadianskeezix

    Ughh. Mr. Collins does not seem to understand that freedom of religion means the right to practice one’s religion, not the right to be free from others who believe differently. It is impossible to provide support to LGBT kids, and to prevent bullying, in an environment where those kids are not even allowed to use the word “gay”. It’s a perverse variation of “don’t ask, don’t tell”, and Collins’ callousness towards the well-being of these kids, not to mention their Charter rights of free expression and assembly, is shocking.

    Collins is an embarassment to the Catholic community in Ontario.

  • Anonymous

    “Please consider the implications for all when legislation is enacted that overrides the deeply held beliefs of any faith community, and intrudes on its freedom to act in a way that is in accord with its principles of conscience.”

    HUNTY PLEASE. Go play your victim card elsewhere.

    Mr. Collins and Catholics(and all religions) are free to practice and educate as they choose. When they begin receiving public money from the government to such a degree that the Catholic School Board does, then they must oblige by the laws of that government. It’s simple really. Don’t follow the rules you don’t get the funding.

  • Anonymous

    Psst, Collins: ‘Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s’.

  • David

    No public funding for institutionalized bigotry.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Cardinal, we can do this defunding thing the hard way or the easy way.

  • Anonymous

    I support defunding but also want to ask the parents of gay kids in Catholic schools – why haven’t you taken your kids out of a school system that doesn’t value them equally and put them in public school? If you don’t think public schools offer the same standard of education as Catholic ones, fight for better public schooling!

    • Canadianskeezix

      There are a lot of reasons why parents choose the schools they do. It’s not as simple an issue as that, and “fight for better public schooling” is really easy to say and really hard to accomplish. And, frankly, why would the onus be put on parents to have to make that choice? Shouldn’t they be entitled to have their kids respected, safe and in the publicly-funded school of their choice?!?

      And, I would note, a lot of these kids aren’t necessarily out to their parents when it comes time to choosing a secondary school. And the kids themselves don’t necessarily want to switch schools.

      • gay kid

        very good points. Also, who’s to say that Catholic parents are supportive of their gay youth? As someone who is gay and grew up catholic, I know that my parents wouldn’t have been supportive if I had come out in high school.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ORC3MNN6LJHFDQIEEIIRIHCFVU Rob S

      Well said. And while you are at it take out all your female children as they are not equal either.

  • Anonymous

    Really makes me wonder why the Catholic church wouldn’t base some of their advancement criteria based on some political and media literacy. This guy has no clue.

    It’s clear to everyone else in the province that they’ve well and truly lost this one, and in fact lost it before the controversy even erupted. A sensible strategy would have been to salvage whatever moral high ground as they could, go along with it and pretend it was their idea from the start, or something like that. Whatever they’re doing now has only one endgame, and it isn’t pretty for the God Botherers.

  • Leeann Garcia

    Thank you for speaking up Cardinal Collins! I, for one, direct my tax dollars to the catholic system and wish to have my children educated in the Catholic Faith. The gov’t is overreaching and trampling on the rights of parents to choose the education of their children along with freedom of religion. What I find so ironic in all this, are the tactics used to try to silence any diverse opinion contrary to the LGBT world views (many are antithetical to one another). In essence, those who disagree and have a different view of human nature are, wait for it, name-called and ridiculed – the very things this legislation is intended to stop. Keep up the good work Cardinal, we’re rooting for you! Hopefully, those in the gay lobby who are militantly trying to silence people who don’t agree with them, will come to see that they are indeed trampling on the rights of others.

    • Anonymous

      Yet you feel your not trampling on the rights of others. You do not find it immoral and unchristian to use children as shield against what you fears?

    • Anonymous

      “Thank you for speaking up Cardinal Collins! I, for one, direct my tax dollars to the catholic system and wish to have my children educated in the Catholic Faith”

      You might have faith that you direct your tax dollars to the Catholic System, but logic and facts tell us that our tax dollars go to the Catholic System no matter what you ‘designate’. Look it up.

      You are perfectly free to educate your children however you wish. When you start asking to have a separate publicly funded(see above and do your research) school system you have to start respecting what the government demands of you. It’s not that hard really.

      • Anonymous

        but I probably shouldn’t be feeding the trolls.

    • Anonymous

      Why do you think Catholic kids should get a set of rights different from everyone else’s kids? Why do you hate gay kids, Leeann?

    • Mlostracco

      Leeann, nobody is trying to stop you from putting your kids in private school, Sunday School, or home school. That’s where religious education should stay. There is no dearth of places to make up for any Catholic catechism not learned at school.

      The new persecution complex that many contemporary Christians have manufactured has no basis in reality. Christianity is hardly “under attack” and it’s in no danger of going away, so what you call “so ironic” is not an effective argument. If Catholicism is hemorrhaging adherents in the West—which it is—the blame can be placed solely on the Vatican and especially the current pope and appointed Cardinals, who are still mired in the bad old days of pre-Vatican II doctrine.

      The real irony is the Archbishop complaining about other people meddling in people’s private lives.

      When it comes to LGBT issues, the Catholic Church has blood on its hands. The Ontario taxpayers should have no role in this.

    • Eric S. Smith

      “…those in the gay lobby who are militantly trying to silence people who don’t agree with them…”

      …about whether or not they should be allowed to exist.Are you really sure you want to complain about the mean tough gay kids picking on the poor old defenceless Pope? I mean, clearly you are, but I thought I’d put the question rhetorically, as a way of pointing out how indefensibly backward your position is.

  • Eric S. Smith

    I know it’s a handy threat, but enough about the public funding. Tolerating the marginalization of gay kids is wrong no matter where your money’s coming from.

    • Anonymous

      The reality is, that both are true.

  • Anonymous

    The freedom to practice religion or what you really mean – the freedom to be religious bigots who want to be allowed to discriminate in the name of a god!