Duly Quoted: Mike Del Grande

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Anonymous

What a piece of shit.

Anonymous

Terrible to have to provide meals for your children. There should be a law…
- Anonymous
  
  Terrible to have to think of others less fortunate than yourself. There should be a law…
  - Anonymous
    
    According to you, parents are not responsible for providing food. How about clothing,heat, housing, transit?? If you can’t provide any of that, perhaps there is a problem? What do you think???
    - Anonymous
      
      TOTALLY AGREE. THE POOR SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED TO HAVE CHILDREN!!!!!! WHO KNOWS WHEN THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE MONEY TO PAY RENT!!!! you know how they are!!!
    - viljandi
      
      I pity the children whose parents are so selfish that they do not even believe that it is part of their responsibility to provide regular meals for their kids. They are so special
    - Anonymous
      
      The point is, OF COURSE parents are responsible for that stuff. But when parents are irresponsible, you seem to be okay with letting the kids suffer. Not to mention that *sometimes* – and I know this point will be lost on someone like you – being poor is the result of circumstances beyond your control. Either way, what exactly would you prescribe for these kids? You seem to be suggesting that if the parents can’t do their job, the kids should be left to starve because a taxpayer-funded breakfast would only reward those parents. It makes no practical sense, unless you’re proposing a return to more Dickensian times.
http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

Amen, brother.

http://twitter.com/mikeykolberg Mikey Kolberg

Wow so this is essentially Mike Del Grande saying to poor kids: I WISH YOU WERE NEVER BORN.

Anonymous

No he is saying that the parent must provide regular meals for their children. Most people agree.
- Anonymous
  
  IM OUTRAGED!!!!!!!! WHY ARE MY TAXES SUPPORTING WATER FILTRATION????? IF THE POOR BEHAVED BETTER THEY’D BE ABLE TO AFFORD BOTTLED WATER!!!!! MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE.
- http://twitter.com/mikeykolberg Mikey Kolberg
  
  You’re absolutely correct that most people agree people should feed their children. But he’s also saying that when, for whatever reason, a person doesn’t support their child they way they should, the rest of us supposedly responsible people should let that child go hungry. I think that makes him a greedy, petulant bastard and I hope most people agree.
- Anonymous
  
  What if ther parent *can’t* provide regular meals?
  - Anonymous
    
    That doesn’t fit the right wing narrative.
- tdotguy
  
  That isn’t what he’s saying at all he’s saying he doesn’t support school meal programs because he thinks parents are responsible for feeding their kids. Of course they are, but when children are not being cared for the state takes over for parents. If the parents were dead the children would be taken into care as wards of the state. It’s no different here, the nation has a responsibility to its citizens- specifically those who they bar from making their own money like those under 14 years old.

Anonymous

I am responsible and I take care of my kids because my lifestyle afforded it and I properly planned things. Where is my hand out then?

Anonymous

It sounds like you don’t need one. However, I suspect that in some respects you are getting more out of certain government programs than you pay in.
- Anonymous
  
  Exactly my point. Everyone is given free education up until Post Secondary school. It’s your choice to do what you want with it. Instead of being out gang banging and thinking it’s cool to do drugs and drink, I was at home studying or working to pay for my future schooling. I had all the bad friends I needed who laughed at me and still to this day laugh because they have abused the system from day one and there isn’t anyone going to stop it.
  - wow
    
    wow. your ignorance is showing. I’m sure that every single person who can’t afford to support their family in this economic climate is a gangbanger.
NSSnark

Furthermore, intolerable1 is being constantly ripped off by our so-called “health” system. You show up at a hospital with a broken leg and they’re all boo-hoo, poor thing, here’s a cast, here’s some crutches, let’s take a bunch of X-rays.

And then intolerable1 shows up with two perfectly functioning legs and how many crutches does *he* get?

NONE IS HOW MANY.

He can’t even get one tiny dose of chemotherapy. Just because he properly planned the part of his life where he doesn’t have cancer! What next, he won’t get EI payments just because he didn’t lose his job? He doesn’t get the senior discount at Arby’s just because he’s not sixty-five?

No crutches, no peace.

Anonymous

If you can’t provide oatmeal and a sandwich for your kid on a regular basis, then Children’s Aid should investigate. Public should supplement but not provide full meals.

Alekt

Great. Meanwhile, I guess those kids should just starve. Serves ‘em right for being born poor, eh?
- Anonymous
  
  No the state will take care of them, since their parents don’t care.Proud to be a working class kid, not privileged.
  - Alekt
    
    I’m also a working class kid — grew up below the poverty line, living paycheck to paycheck. My dad got laid off a lot in the 80s especially, and both my parents would work two jobs whenever the work was available, just to catch up. Should I have been taken away from them whenever they fell on hard times?
    
    And in the meantime? Do you think that the state will magically swoop in and rescue every hungry child from their family homes? Of course, this is ignoring the fact that nutrition programs ARE the “state taking care of them”.
    
    Don’t ever use growing up working class as an excuse for entitlement, selfishness or judgment. Lots of us grew up that way, and we still managed to become decent human beings. What’s your excuse?
    - Anonymous
      
      Why do you feel you are entitled? My father worked for 27 years in a job he did not like to provide for my mother and myself. I respect him. If a parent won’t or can’t provide meals on a regular basis, what is society do? Allow this situation to go on? If I can’t feed my do, Animal Services will remove the dog from my premises?
    - Alekt
      
      Entitlement means feeling that you are owed something which either do not deserve or should rather earn for yourself. I’m expressing no entitlement in regard to anything, since I’m only advocating that my own tax dollars be spent to help the less fortunate.
      
      People like you, who wail bitterly about having to pay into the same system whose social programs have made your own life’s successes possible (socialized health care, public schooling) are entitled, very plainly.
      
      These nutrition programs, in reality, cost very little. One day, hopefully, you will live to be a senior, and you will be far more of a drain on the system than any of these children. Maybe then you’ll still decry the outrageous unfairness of social support.
      
      Also, don’t ever, ever compare poor kids to dogs.
    - Anonymous
      
      My neighbour was 85 years old and she could no longer feed herself and her husband did not care to. Her niece put in a long term care facility.
      Public healthcare. I presently have a doctor rated 1.5 out of 5 on ratemymd by 31 of his patients and former patients. Yes I used public education, though my parents did not have either and still flourished. Public services are a good place to work, but they are not as good as advertised.
      I think you work for public services.
    - Anonymous
      
      “If a parent won’t or can’t provide meals on a regular basis, what is society do?”
      Provide them with free meals!
    - viljandi
      
      Also free housing, clothing, heat, counselling, etc etc. Maybe someone from the government should come to your place and make sure that you take your medication. If you can’t feed your kids, you probably can’t feed yourself or function as a normal human being.
    - Anonymous
      
      “If you can’t feed your kids, you probably can’t feed yourself ”
      Yes, parents tend to feed their children rather than feed themselves. Presumably if things are so desperate the child needs free food, then so does the parent.
  - Anonymous
    
    ME TOO!!!!!! PROUD TO BE A WORKING CLASS KID WHO’S PARENTS HAVE WORKING CLASS JOBS SO I CAN STILL AFFORD FOOD! they behaved properly and saved money so that they can give me food. those silly poor people who can’t find a steady job should beg for a better upbringing so they can get jobs!!!!! and quit begging for scraps of food at the public table!!!!
  - Anonymous
    
    So if a parents finanical ability is one meal short of proper nutrition, the state should take them away and then pay for *all* of the child’s needs? Generally, it’s cheaper to just pay for the extra meals.
- Anonymous
  
  Please investigate Hakim Hassan who works for The Stop who recorded the budget chief. The Stop has extensive kitchens, gardens and a large paid staff and gets free rent from the City. It spends most of its time fundraising from the rich and involved in politics. Its former director is now the local MPP.
- Anonymous
  
  Proud to be the child of working class parents and though they worked at menial jobs always gave me a nutritious breakfast and a boxed lunch. Unlike the parents who don’t care for their children. I feel sorry for their children.
  - Anonymous
    
    YEAH!!! Poor people totally hate their children!!!!! We should stop supporting all of those poor hate filled parents. They’re probably playing on their ipads anyways instead of trying to pay rent for their families!!!!! They’re all the same and they’re always going to be there so let’s just stop caring!!!!!
  - Guest
    
    Just because people are poor doesn’t mean they don’t care about their children. There are just as many rich parents who don’t give a crap about their kids – but that’s okay, ’cause they’re rich, right? I fail to see the connection between being poor = not caring about your kids.
Anonymous

Which do you think costs more, a small bowl of cereal and an apple, or a case worker, lawyer, 24/7 public assistance for the kid taken away, and the increased likelihood they will grow up needing welfare/correctional institutions (all on the public dime)?
- Anonymous
  
  If your child is starving, and you can’t feed your child for some reason on a regular basis, what should society do? I had a neighbour aged 85 and she could no longer feed herself and her husband would not, so her niece got her a place in a long term care facility. If a parent can no longer feed his/her child or won’t what should society do?
  - Anonymous
    
    “If your child is starving, and you can’t feed your child for some reason on a regular basis, what should society do?”
    
    Is that supposed to be a rhetorical question? Because the obvious answer is help you to feed your child.
    - Anonymous
      
      I agree, as do most people in Toronto. Some individuals on this site think that it is not the responsibility of a parent to provide regular meals for their child.
    - Anonymous
      
      Don’t be thick. Being responsible for something doesn’t mean you’re able to do it.
  - Anonymous
    
    You’re arguing that the state has no business providing meals (cheap) to kids, but it’s the state’s place to step in and take responsibility for the kid (expensive) if his parents can’t afford breakfast.
    
    Which way do you want it? Either way the public pays, but for some reason you’re outraged we aren’t paying more.
    
    On top of that, you want the kid to keep going hungry until someone reports and investigates it, then you want the kid is torn out of his home and shuffled around, perhaps separated from siblings and put in a different school.
    - Anonymous
      
      The “responsibility” argument says the parents should be punished by having their child taken away. The costs to the child, the public good, and the State are irrelevant.
    - Anonymous
      
      Yes, the “responsibility” argument is asinine.
Anonymous

Yes, because taking the children away from their parents is SO much cheaper than providing a few meals.

You, Del Grande, and the mayor should get together some time and try to have a thought.
- Anonymous
  
  So if the parents cannot provide meals, can they provide housing, heat, clothing? Perhaps a social worker should check if more help is needed by this person?
  - Anonymous
    
    Are you from some magical world where one can pay rent, the hydro bill, buy underwear and three meals a day all with the same dollar? Because it doesn’t work like that on Earth.
  - Anonymous
    
    Presumably the housing, heat and water get paid first, with food coming in fourth. Better to be half-hungry in a house then well-fed on the street.
    - viljandi
      
      So it is society’s fault if the parent allows the child to be half-hungry? if the parent is too busy, too preoccupied.
    - Anonymous
      
      Who said anything about “fault”? Where do you get the idea that kids only go hungry because their parents are “too preoccupied”? If there’s no money for food, there’s no money for food.
Anonymous

OATMEAL IS EXPENSIVE!!!!… WHY NOT JUST FLOUR AND WATER…
- Anonymous
  
  Just make sure there isn’t any pinko flourine in that water. All of these people with teeth asking for handouts chafe my ass.
John Duncan

You’re using a lot of “should” there. But policy choices are better based on actual situations, rather than what we believe should be the situation.

Many parents (from whatever socio-economic class) don’t provide good breakfasts for their children. There’s lots of factors here including lack of money, lack of time (jobs that have people gone before the kid leaves for school), and lack of knowledge (feeding kids children’s cereals, AKA well-marketed sugar, like my not-poor parents did).

Children who eat a nutritious breakfast are better able to concentrate and have greater success at school. They are also less disruptive to other kids. i.e. By providing school breakfasts, we increase the efficacy of the other tax dollars we are spending on education. Why do you want to waste my tax dollars?

In general, educational attainment tracks well with career success and work productivity (though computers also seem to be eating a lot of those knowledge jobs). i.e. better educated people tend to make more money, which means they can both spend more money (economic stimulation) and pay more taxes (government funding).

Since I don’t see the provision of an optional breakfast at schools as an abrogation of anyone’s rights, those outcomes seem a good argument to keeping the program to me.

Alekt

For the folks who don’t seem to understand what’s so appalling about this: he is (and you are too, essentially) saying that poor kids should suffer — deserve to suffer, in fact — for their parents’ actions, and he is blaming those same kids for being born poor.

Anonymous

So start rewarding those who made good decisions. Not just those who want hand outs.
- Alekt
  
  So, wait, nutrition programs reward the parents? Really? I was pretty sure they were specifically about feeding hungry kids, but, hey, what do I know? I’m not the budget chief.
  - Anonymous
    
    Sure couple that with a welfare cheque, you get to have a family and I get to pay for it. No thanks. The main context of his discussion was people and their priorities.
    - Anonymous
      
      and they’re probably just all wasting their welfare cheques on rent and hydro and heating!!!! what a waste!!! they should stop paying their gas bill so they can buy some flour and water to feed their children and stop begging us working class for scraps!!!!! how dare they!!!
  - Anonymous
    
    I support giving kids snacks, supplemental food. Good idea. But complete meals? If you are too lazy to feed your kids, the state should do it for you? Really!
    - Anonymous
      
      they should all get jobs!!
    - Anonymous
      
      I know that having a job is held to be something terrible by some sectors of society, but not by most. I have friends who have never worked, who are on programs. That is their choice. I heard about a new program, where people who can’t/won’t get jobs have social clubs set up for them by the state so that they can feel better about themselves. I told my friend that is too much for me.
    - Anonymous
      
      yea totally!!!!! the poor choose to be poor!!!! that makes so much sense to me and my friends too!!! these “programs” are totally conditioning them to be lazy!!!
    - Eric S. Smith
      
      Oh, for pity’s sake. If we call it a snack, will you shut up and let the kids eat?
- Anonymous
  
  Yes, clearly the problem with society is that the rich aren’t rewarded enough.
- Anonymous
  
  It’s not about decisions. Good decisions are practically rewarding by definition. This is about helping people get out of tough situations.
Anonymous

If you behave badly, everyone runs to help you. If you look after yourself, no one helps you.
- Anonymous
  
  tell me about it!!!!! one would assume that if you look after yourself that you don’t need help! but no! no one asks the working class how they’re feeling!!! we have feelings too! and we behaved well! were’s my caviar and truffle breakfast!?
- Anonymous
  
  Tell me this, “highparkgirl”, if you invited a known criminal into your home for Christmas, a guy who shot your sister in the face, and that guy comes back and breaks in, why should the police come and rescue you on MY dime? Shouldn’t they just allow the guy to kill you and your family? After all, it’s your own fault.

http://www.facebook.com/james.mathien James S. Mathien

Yes, because bad things never happen to people who already have children. Parents never get sick, or injured, or lose a job. Welfare benefits are completely adequate to the needs of families, and no one is ever surprised to find themselves at a food bank. Proper nutrition has no influence at all on educational outcomes, and education is irrelevant to breaking a cycle of poverty.

Do try to keep up, Michael.

Anonymous

So you are saying if a poor child becomes a doctor they will not live a different life? Hmmm…I beg to differ. I came from a poor household in a very bad part of town and I have done perfectly fine thanks. Everyone has a choice. Some just take the easy way out and blame others instead of rising to the challenge.
- Alekt
  
  No. He’s being sarcastic when he says that education is irrelevant. You, too, should try to keep up.
  
  And it’s social programs like these that help allow low income children to break that cycle and rise to the challenge — to become doctors, or whatever example you want to use. The point is that this doesn’t “reward negligent parents”. It helps poor kids. KIDS. Kids can’t fucking help themselves, and talking about how they should never have been born in the first place isn’t going to feed them.
  - Anonymous
    
    Continue to take from my pocket and insult me for making good decisions in my life. Thanks social programs. I see people abusing these social programs everyday yet I go and make sure I work to pay taxes to support these people. Maybe they need to stop so people can see how valuable they were in the first place so people wouldn’t abuse them.
    - Anonymous
      
      Really? You must have great eyesight to be able to see “people abusing these social programs everyday”.
    - Anonymous
      
      I grew up in the projects, I saw people run scams everyday to collect benefits. You know how many people fraud the government everyday by sitting at home, getting fake doctors notes. People abuse legal aid, they lie on affidavits. The victims usually just play victims. There is always a truth that isn’t told or that is muddied up.
    - Anonymous
      
      IT”S TRUE!!! Let’s assume the worst!!!! I grew up in a Favala in Brazil so I know poor people!! They’re all liars crooks and thieves!!!!
    - Anonymous
      
      I don’t assume the worst I have facts from my experience. Obviously there are those who require assistance but the majority are abusing it or choosing not to help themselves. Start refining the social system, which is what is happening here and more people will be there to help the cause. It’s a known fact that there is abuse and fraud all throughout government programs and agencies as there is not enough legislative enforcement and too much red tape to stop it. Finally we have people in city hall that are looking to correct this by making tough choices for the time being and everyone brings out the pitch forks. I wish I could just go into a store and take what i want and have you pay for it. I would love to see how long that lasts. In Toronto I see it all the time. People with no jobs hanging out all day, drinking beer, doing drugs, while I work to provide for my family. Clean that aspect of the social system up first then come ask for handouts. I am tired of this bullshit
    - Anonymous
      
      “facts from my experience”
      
      Anecdotes are not facts.
      
      “the majority are abusing it or choosing not to help themselves”
      
      Cite your evidence of this.
      
      “Finally we have people in city hall that are looking to correct this by making tough choices…”
      
      Your ridiuclous jingoism aside, in THIS specific case the choice they’re making is to punish children for the actions (or inactions) of their parents. They are literally taking food away from kids, and you applaud it.
    - Anonymous
      
      Come to any metro housing complex in toronto and you will see the system at work. Do you want me to quote case dockets from courts where people have lied because they were going to get kicked out of their home for not paying rent but meanwhile they own 3 cars and sell drugs from their home. The cops didn’t care and the tenants fought back but the judge decided against kicking them out because “proper information was given to the woman and she was not made to understand the penalties”
      
      When taxes go up to where it becomes unaffordable to live in toronto, then what do we do?
      
      Like i said until the abuse stops, so do the programs. Then maybe the people who need the programs will fight hard alongside those who pay for it to prevent those who abuse the programs from receiving assistance.
    - Anonymous
      
      “Like i said until the abuse stops, so do the programs.”
      
      Punishing people for the actions of others.
      
      Stay classy, Conservatives.
    - Anonymous
      
      When you find the money to support all these programs let me know. Right now there is no money for any of this stuff. Both toronto and ontario are in debt up to their eyeballs. I don’t think anyone undetstands where this money is supposed to come from.
    - Anonymous
      
      (too small to read!)
      
      Putting money ahead of kids’ welbeing. Stay classy Ford Nation.
    - Anonymous
      
      “I grew up poor, therefore I’m entitled to trash poor people.” As a rhetorical device, it’s not all that different from “I’m not racist; some of my best friends are black/Jewish/Arab/etc.”
    - Anonymous
      
      I know of wealthy people who run the same scams by not paying their fair share of taxes. Claiming all sorts of false deductions and the sort. Some even go so far as to brag about it.
      
      Bet you that on a dollar per dollar basis, there is way more cheating the taxman by the rich, than there is money, in your’s and Mike’s opinion, supposeldly wasted on the poor.
    - Anonymous
      
      That is a provincial and federal matter, not municipal.
    - Anonymous
      
      Jurisdictions shouldn’t matter when it comes to doing what is right. It’s a Canadian matter.
  - Anonymous
    
    Actually there is no cycle of poverty in Toronto. . My father said that even with a part-time job he could get a room and food in Toronto. In many other countries this is not the case.He actually lived through the war and lived in a refugee camp after that.
    You seem to want to separate the parent and the child. If I live with a child, a disabled adult or an elderly person or even a dog, I am held responsible for the feeding of that person or dog by society. Why am I not providing regular meals to that child? Am I physically or mentally disabled? If I don’t feed that person or animal, I will be held responsible by the courts representing society.
    - Vampchick21
      
      You sicken me.
    - Anonymous
      
      So if you have a child and you don’ t feed it, you should not be held accountable for that? If you starve the child?
    - Eric S. Smith
      
      Actually there is no cycle of poverty in Toronto. . My father said that even with a part-time job he could get a room and food in Toronto. In many other countries this is not the case.He actually lived through the war and lived in a refugee camp after that.
      
      I’m trying to imagine what point this gibberish could possibly support, and I’m coming up empty.
    - Anonymous
      
      My father also lived through the war … in part because of free meals provided to school kids.
    - Guest
      
      “Actually there is no cycle of poverty in Toronto.”
      Please cite a reputable source for this comment.
      
      Also, ” My father said that even with a part-time job he could get a room and food in Toronto.” – was this before or after the 2008 recession wiped out many good jobs and left otherwise capable people struggling financially?
      
      Also, have you tried to rent a room in a decent, safe home/apartment building and eat on a part-time salary in Toronto in 2011 – next to impossible. Do the math on your own expenses and see if a part-time salaary would cover them, even when you cut your expenses to the bare minimum (no cable, no internet, no car, no meals out, no take-away coffees, no movies, nothing but the bare basics for survival). You’ll notice soon enough that there’s no money for food in that equation.
    - Anonymous
      
      My daddy in 1951 said that I could rent a place for like a dollar!
    - Anonymous
      
      Your father is a moron
Anonymous

Temporarily, maybe for 5 years. Not for the rest of your life.
Anonymous

Toronto poverty is different than poverty in many poor countries. For example I was growing food in a community garden and was told by The Stop that they would only accept sweet potatoes, as that is what their clients were used to. Now our donated plot was in a shaded area and in Canada it takes 4 months to grow sweet potatoes. In Toronto hungry people will only eat something they are used to. In the rest of the world it is different.. During the war when my father was hungry he and he ate snails, since he was hungry period and would eat anything.
- Anonymous
  
  So now you’re saying the state should dictate what poor people eat.
  - Anonymous
    
    If they are getting a free hand out then yes.
    - Anonymous
      
      Did you mix up which user you’re posting as? I wasn’t reply to you.
      
      But at least now you agree the state should be feeding people who can’t feed themselves.

Canuck

The children are our future. So fuck ‘em.

Bo Ngan

One whose brain can only churn out word salad is in no position to lead.
A councillor who over claims he runs a nation suffers fromvdelusion of gradeur.
This mean man with divisive thoughts will go at lengths to starve children to placate his ego. his value and diginity is so low that irks all fair tax payers. what has children done wrong to deserve this attitude other than being born poor.
This man is harmful to society and should not be voted in any public office.

Anonymous

He is saying what most people think. You make a kid, it’s your responsibility to provide meals for that kid. You buy a dog, you have to make sure that dog does not starve.
- Anonymous
  
  Wow. Now you’re comparing raising kids to raising dogs? Stay classy!
- Guest
  
  Don’t EVER state that he’s saying what most people think. I’m incredibly offended that you would dare dictate to me what I should think about caring for children. Most people see the intelligence in ensuring that the future generation is cared for and nurtured. It’s well documented that children who eat breakfast are better able to concentrate, retain what they learn and go on to pursue higher levels of education than those that don’t (and funny, I can back that up with stats and reputable sources if you’d like me to). I’d rather a few bucks of my taxes be taken now to ensure the future well-being of these kids than to see a lot of bucks from my taxes taken to purpetuate a cycle of poverty simply because these kids were not given a good start in life.
- Anonymous
  
  So having a child is a consumer choice now? Oh boy, did you forget to take your meds this morning?

http://twitter.com/maharper82 Matthew Harper

Why do they even heat schools? That just rewards the parents who didn’t think ahead to buy their children warm coats.

Anonymous

You’re on to something here. Why, in my day, in the dead of winter, our teacher would force us to cut up our desks and build a fire to keep the classroom warm. No one complained or felt entitled. We just did it. Why are today’s kids so lazy and weak?
- Anonymous
  
  The parents are lazy and weak, not the kids. Just the ones working for these programs that would be axed.
  - Anonymous
    
    And yet still you would punish their children by letting them starve. Well that’ll learn them, those negligent loser parents!

Anonymous

Where would this kind of thinking stop?

Why is the state responsible for educating our children? Why is the state responsible for saving our sick children? Why is the state responsible for protecting our children from abusive adults?

Why have taxes and government at all? Why not just let everyone fend for themselves? That would make for an interesting society!

If we can’t look after the less fortunate, then we shouldn’t use public funds to bailout corporations. If a business can’t look after its self, let it fail.

Del Grande’s statement, proves him to be what I have always thought him to be. Though, I can’t use the words here.

Anonymous

Yeah we saw how long that lasted with the Occupy movement in Toronto.
Anonymous

Most people agree with him, I know I do. I believe that the state should help by providing snacks and such, but it is the responsibility of the parent to provide 3 square meals a day.
- Anonymous
  
  “Most people agree with him”
  
  Yes, most people would agree that kids should eat breakfast and their parents should be the ones to provide it.
  
  But where do “most people” stand on the matter at hand? The matter at had is the children of parents who CAN’T AFFORD to feed their kid.
  
  There is no way in fucking hell “most people” will say the kid should starve.
  
  But that’s what you and your paid Ford Nation bloggers saying. You want kids to suffer, to teach their parents a lesson. You want 5 year olds to go hungry because obviously the only way that could happen is if their selfish parents are squandering money on yachts and vacations.
  
  You hate the poor and want them to suffer.

Anonymous

Looks like the “Toronto Taxpayers Coalition” has gone to town on this page. Must pay them by the post…

Anonymous

For a lot of kids, getting to school on time means skipping breakfast.

Anonymous

wake up earlier..goto bed earlier…problem solved…..sheesh
- Anonymous
  
  Oh, it’s that easy, is it? Especially for working and/or single parents?
  - Anonymous
    
    So you are telling me you work 24hrs a day? If a kid needs to be at school at 845 and you need to be at work at a certain time, how is it you are not able to wake up early enough to feed the child and get ready to work. I have 2 children and I have them both up at 7am to make sure they are dressed/cleaned/fed and out the door for 830 along with myself. I get home at 6pm, i pay for childcare till that time. We are home by 6:30, my wife or myself prepares dinner depending on who picked up the kids and from 7:15-8:30 they are doing homework with us and at 9pm they are in bed…9pm the latest. I am in bed by 11pm. And the routine starts all over again the next morning.
    
    There is no choice in my household on when kids get to wake up and they have been told from an early age that you eat breakfast. There is no choice as I sit with them and eat my breakfast too.
    - Anonymous
      
      No, but thanks for distorting my question. If a kid needs to be at school at 8:45 and that’s the latest the parent can drop him or her off and still get to work on time, breakfast is going to be skipped or not substantial enough some of the time. That’s what these programs are for.
    - Anonymous
      
      If 845 is the latest time why can’t a child eat at 7:15? I am confused?
    - Anonymous
      
      Is that always going to be possible for some parents?

Anonymous

The budget chief advocates that people accept their responsibilities and work hard. Nothing wrong with that outlook. However, in all his efforts in public office he wants to eliminate jobs, undermine the security of working people, take away opportunity. He wants fewer people to participate in society, he doesn’t want people working to make the city cleaner, safer, stronger because that costs him money. His efforts were probably no different in the public sector, where he was an executive at Shoppers Drug Mart (his wife is a pharmacist, so the family may own a couple stores). Any guesses on his advice there towards making store employees part-time and transient while keeping the executive class year over year more comfy and well-compensated? This is a man who works to take away employment and security and then holds himself high as morally superior for not being in their position. We will overlook that his present status is dependent on his continued support for a man who seems morally compromised, who has the police stopping by his house regularly for personal issues.

Anonymous

I think you should read his bio….no where does it say he owned drugstores….
- Anonymous
  
  It wasn’t important. Just an aside. Parenthetical. I did read the bio. That’s where I saw that his wife was a pharmacist. He was at head office at Shoppers. I believe that pharmacists franchise those operations. So the family may have owned and operated one. Maybe not. Again not that important. My point is that in his council persona he is a sanctimonious bean counter who sees little value in the basic jobs that people do to support their families, who actively squeezes lower level workers to save costs. I’m guessing that he has also pursued this approach in his public sector work against even lower level retail workers. This seems common among conservatives, to undermine and eliminate basic necessary jobs, to advocate replacing them with things like volunteerism and internships, to increase the number of hoops necessary to navigate to acquire jobs, all while accusing people lacking their good fortune in economics and society of laziness and moral failings.
  
  In his bio I also saw that he has a Masters in Theology. Good to see the former Catholic school board member supporting condom use.

Anonymous

Del Grande doesn’t want to spend taxpayer’s dollars on feeding children, but has no problem spending even more taxpayer’s dollars on poisoning those same children by supporting water fluoridation. More and more municipalities, worldwide, are stopping water fluoridation, because good science, is proving it harmful. Especially harmful to children’s developing brains and bones.

So, Mike, save more money and stop fluoridation while you’re at it. Kid’s can brush their own teeth with fluoridated toothpaste and don’t need to swallow it as a poision!!

Nick

Given his Catholic background, he’d probably be quite happy for the state to ban such parents having an abortion, however, on the grounds that it’s the state’s responsibility to protect the unborn. And he’s being pretty un-Christian in his attitude: he could surely imagine someone becoming a single mom and stuck in a low paying job having a hard time making ends meet. Personally I could not imagine letting my kid go to school hungry, but if a parent is irresponsible or unable to provide in this way, then the kid should not suffer. And to all the other Ayn Randians on this post, if a kid can be helped along and given a boost up in society (see the arguments here about better educational achievement etc.) then he or she will generate more taxes down the road, thereby improving the government’s coffers and society in general. Ya gotta have a bigger view, Mike.

Anonymous

If Catholicism is an important part of his life, he’s certainly not suggesting that the church step in and take on the role of providing breakfast to kids whose parents do not provide their children with breakfast due to poverty or irresponsibility.

LetsGo

I don’t like the guy but if any of the knee-jerk commenters here actually bothered to read the article, you would understand that his point is not about class — it’s about responsibility. It’s about requiring parents to provide the necessities of life before the luxuries. Which is fine. Taking food away from children because their parents may (or may not!) be responsible is the ludicrous part.

His problem is that he is forgetting that these are children we’re talking about; literally the most innocent and defenseless of our population. Any decent society (read: government) has a responsibility to look after its citizens which are in need. If others abuse these programs, that is a problem to be addressed and improved upon rather and not a reason to pull the plug.

You’ll never be able to win a debate by turning it into a class war. The problem is flawed logic, not some cartoonishly evil plot to starve children and enslave the poor.

Anonymous

I see the paid bloggers are here to spout right wing nonsense.

Anonymous

Clearly he hasn’t realized all the other efficiencies we could be realizing with this line of thinking. “If you have children you are responsible for those children”. So why is it the state’s responsibility to *educate* those children? (what is the bigger luxury here – food or education? I ASK YOU!) I’m just a single guy, why should my dollars be going to pay for schools and shit? If you can’t afford to home-school you kids why aren’t you wearing a condom? Why do we need to be taking care of people!!?

Oh, yeah. Because we live in a SOCIETY.

Bo Ngan

To mike and others: Your attitude is unCanadian. along with mike. canadian society prides our value in having a social safety net. we are not as improverished as this clique of mean councillors projects. as a tax payer it is shameful to support leaders to do mean things to the helpless. no sane mom will starve their own. in this province children’S Aids will take the child and place into foster home. some missing gap arises is tempoirary nutrional buffer through school. the purpose is to ensure the child can learn. healthier children=stronger canada. political leaders has the fiduciary duty to protect the vulnerable. there is no place to issue trite remarks as mike del grande did. why drill down narrow mindedness to the populace. we as a group has a rich and organized compassionate society. why do we reduce ourself as penny counting and turn our backs on each other. afterall what wrong has a starving poorly nourished child done to you. the school may be their last stopresort.
I hope you have kindness left in your sole. you van always choose another country where it is in fashion not to pay tax and have no social net.

Anonymous

Check the budget and let us know what you see….red or black.
- Anonymous
  
  I see blue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Police_Service#Funding
- Anonymous
  
  Actually, I see black – over $150 million worth of it: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/05/toronto-budget-surplus-may-save-services/

Anonymous

The problem with all these social programs are the fact that there is no incentive for the parents to actually stop leeching off the rest of the population. They should stand to lose something for their incompetence.

Anonymous

That “something” is their kids’ health, apparently.

Common Sense

Feed the children and they’ll do better in school. If they do better in school, maybe they’ll actually finish high school and get jobs and not be on the welfare system or poor. Maybe with a bit of encouragement they’ll not want to be like their parents. It’s helping stop the cycle.

http://twitter.com/RealPaul Paul Gilbert

I wonder if Hakim Kassam secretly recorded someone the majority of the responders liked, if there wouldn’t be a hue and cry over the violation of Mr. Del Grande’s right to privacy.

This does beg the question, was Mr. Del Grande told anytime in the conversation he was being recorded?

Anonymous

Del Grande has made scant effort to disguise his odious, scrooge-like character, a hypocrite who has been living off the public teat for nearly 10 years now. The only good thing he’s ever said in recent memory is that he may resign. Make that will, please.
Anonymous

Shouldn’t politicians be speaking to constituents as if what they say might be reported elsewhere, even if only by word of mouth?

Anonymous

So if the parents bring up children who become (in a word) taxpayers, that’s none of the city’s business, either? A lot of refund cheques are due, then. No wonder you’re thinking of stepping down. Clearly the stress is getting to you.

Brian

If the poor start wearing condoms, who’ll be picking up our garbage when garbage collection is privatized and garbage collectors will be making minimum wage.

Even worse, if the poor start wearing condoms, there won’t be anyone to blame for any and all problems we have.

Anonymous

We live in a society whether anyone likes it or not, that means everyone else in this society is going to have some sort of impact on you, directly or indirectly at some point in your life, there is no escaping it unless you go live by yourself in the middle of a vast forest.

Isn’t it incredibly obvious to everyone by now that healthy well educated adults are capable of contributing more to society, at least financially but that’s all the right wing cares about so lets stick with that alone for now. Its a proven fact that hungry children get sick more often and cannot learn as well as well fed healthy children, Its also proven that children that get a good head start in life do much better later in life, its a scientifically proven fact and the basis of expanding kindergarten so the next generation as a whole does better than the last. Children who get a better start in life lead to adults who are better off as adults and therefore able to contribute much more financially to society than if they hadn’t got a good start in life, didn’t do as well as adults, and have less to contribute to society in the form of taxes.

School breakfast programs or any other such program that makes life better for children and their families isn’t a hand out at all but an investment in our future generation that will reap increased benefits for society as a whole down the road. Its a win win situation. Its the exact same reasoning behind providing a free education to everyone. What’s the difference between providing improved teaching strategies and technologies and providing breakfast programs so children can learn better? Nothing at all.

Anonymous

Its no accident that the right wingers who support Harper’s prison expansion program also support an everyone for themselves approach to society. They fully realize that without gov’t assistance many more people are going to end up as criminals. Just look at the early years of serious violent criminals to see where being left to fend for themselves as children got them.

Not all parents are capable of providing the best for their children either through the problems of their own childhood and family life especially if their parents dies young where ill, or had an addiction or mental health problem, including of course the current parents of children being left to fend for themselves, plus deep poverty, illness, lay offs, lock outs, anything that can lead to a serious loss of income that can mean children and their families ending up homeless or being forced to live in cheap but dangerous places and neighbourhoods.

Many parents end up with their children in such situations through no fault of their own, and even if the parent is to blame why should we make their children suffer? How is there anything just about that?

All these factors and many more can easily have a very negative impact on a child’s later adulthood. Intervening to help or reduce the problems faced by children and their parents only makes sense, not only from a purely human level but from a financial level too. Much less cost to society the fewer criminals we have, the fewer desperate, low functioning young people we have the fewer criminals. How does the cost of a breakfast compare to keeping someone in prison?

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_R36DSEBLSINKGD7IUYJQYFH7JA KLW

Because these children are future Toronto taxpayers.

Joe Smith

Poor bashing?
In a recent interview Del Grande stated his opposition to breakfast programs for poor children, stating that parents who have children should take responsibility for them(http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1114335–toronto-budget-mike-del-grande-s-candid-chat-about-social-programs?bn=1). Housing advocate Michael Shapcott stated that this was a perfect example of “blaming the victim” for their adverse situation (Toronto Star, January 13, 2012, Del Grande comments “insulting” to the poor, says housing advocate), p. GT2).

This comment and additional ones stating that welfare recipients use their benefits to buy beer rather than feed their children also appear to be examples of “poor bashing” as described in the volume by Jean Swanson (http://www.btlbooks.com/New_Titles/poor_bashing.htm) where poor people, rather than being assisted, are instead demonized by those in power.

That these individuals are more likely to suffer illness and premature death as a result of adverse living conditions does not seem to be a concern to Councillor Del Grande (http://www.thecanadianfacts.org/). Engels referred to this disregard of the health situations of poor people as constituting “social murder” (http://susanrosenthal.com/articles/engels-and-the-who-report). Two University of Manitoba economists have applied this analysis to the effects of public policies such as those espoused by Del Grande and Ford in Canada (http://arbeiterring.com/books/detail/social-murder/).

Torontoist

news

Duly Quoted: Mike Del Grande

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