Today Sat Sun
It is forcast to be Chance of a Thunderstorm at 11:00 PM EDT on May 25, 2012
Chance of a Thunderstorm
20°/16°
It is forcast to be Partly Cloudy at 11:00 PM EDT on May 26, 2012
Partly Cloudy
21°/14°
It is forcast to be Chance of a Thunderstorm at 11:00 PM EDT on May 27, 2012
Chance of a Thunderstorm
22°/12°

57 Comments

news

Rob Ford’s Subway Derailing Fast

20110817mcguinty.jpg
Dalton McGuinty in November 2010. Photo by alfred ng from the Torontoist Flickr Pool.


Rob Ford met with Dalton McGuinty this morning, and in the process blew most of his own governing ethos out of the water.
Ford, private sector champion, previously negotiated with the province to reallocate most of the funding that had been set aside for the Transit City light rail plan, and direct it instead to the Eglinton line from that plan—except now the plan is to bury the central portion of that route underground, a much more expensive proposition. Part of the understanding in that earlier negotiation was that Ford would find private sector funding to build the Sheppard subway line he so wants (another revision to Transit City, which had Sheppard getting a light-rail line rather than a subway). For months, Ford has told anyone who would listen that we don’t need public taxpayer money to build Sheppard, that his new style of governance would tap the hitherto unplumbed depths of corporate honeypots, and that companies would line up to invest in the subway based on a promise of future revenue.
And yet, despite his commitment to private sector financing, despite his repeated protestations that “there is only one taxpayer,” despite years of condemning his mayoral predecessor for asking the province for money rather than spending less, today Ford marched into McGuinty’s office today and asked for $650 million.


That figure isn’t random. The previous version of the Ford/McGuinty agreement stipulated that if there was money left over from building the Eglinton LRT and one other transit project (rebuilding the seriously worn-down Scarborough RT), up to $650 million of it would be put towards the Sheppard subway.
The problem, from McGuinty’s point of view, is that he has no idea yet if or how much money will be left over from those other projects—seeing as they haven’t been built yet. (Both the Star and the Globe have full reports on how the meeting went.) But the other problem for McGuinty is that he is heading into an election and Ford keeps threatening to summon “Ford Nation” and work for his defeat.
For the moment, McGuinty isn’t saying much. “I think I’ve got a slightly different take on the $650 million,” he commented, according to the Star—leaving him plenty of wiggle room to fold in a few weeks if that’s what his political advisors recommend.
We hope he ignores them if they do. Ford won his mayoralty on the strength of his promise to bring fiscal reform to city hall. Many doubted the viability of his plan for building the Sheppard subway from the outset, and everyone else can now see that plan for the ill-informed piece of wishful thinking that it is. If McGuinty gives Ford his $650 million he’s not only risking money he may not have (if the Eglinton LRT doesn’t leave the province with leftover funds), he’s propping up the fantastical notion that Ford has a real plan for building this subway, and that he’s adhering to the principles of sound fiscal planning on which he campaigned, and on the basis of which many voted for him.

Comments

  • HotDang

    Remember: the Sheppard subway, if ever built, is projected to run at a significant loss for decades. There will be a huge pit in the TTC's operating budget that will cause a lot of damage to the rest of the system. It's terrible planning.

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    Ah! but look what the current stubway has done for the pockets of high-rise developers! That's who this is meant to appeal to…

  • andrew97

    Not a fan of the Sheppard subway, but doesn't the entire TTC run at a significant loss all the time?

  • Nick

    Not sure if Scarberians have really thought about what a subway to STC will mean in terms of hundreds of new condo towers along Sheppard from Don Mills eastward. This is where (some of) the purported private sector funding would come from for it. This new condo canyon will certainly disrupt the blissful avenue even more than the Sheppard East LRT would have.

  • torontothegreat

    The point is, why add onto it?  Is that “fiscal” or “responsible”?

  • andrew97

    Hey, I'm just being pedantic here! Can't a guy just be pedantic anymore?

  • istoronto

    Ford's first year as mayor, is shaping up pretty much like his years as a councillor. Completely out of touch with the reality of how a city the size of Toronto works. He lied his way into office and now he finds himself begging, or worse, threatening the province for more dough. What a class “A” ass!

  • rich1299

    The Eglinton LRT too will likely run at a net loss for the TTC greatly increasing its operating budget since it will buried the entire route unnecessarily, which means lots more tax dollars to maintain the tunnels, the stations, the elevators and the escalators than the original plan would've cost with just part of it buried. Eglinton outside the city centre is more than wide enough to add an LRT line without taking away any car lanes but surface transit is a no no during the Ford regime.

    I'm hoping that they only get the central section dug before Ford is tossed out at this next election and we hopefully elect a more transit friendly mayor, allowing the original TC plan to come back again and be able to fund all the other lines that were cancelled so the Eglinton line could buried the entire way.

  • rich1299

    McGuinty has nothing to lose by saying no to Ford. Ford after all is the one who has been claiming Toronto doesn't have a revenue problem and this new transit deal with the province is one of his own creation. Besides which no one who considers themselves Ford nation would never vote for McGuinty anyways and by standing up to Ford he may gain the respect of those who aren't a part of Ford nation, as well as the rest of the province.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Lis/571716919 Walter Lis

    Rob, going to the province and asking for money is the same as asking for taxpayers money.

    This from a mayor who avoids pubic transit, does not know the difference
    between a streetcar and a light rail vehicle, and needs an automobile
    to get a Timbit instead of walking to a library.

  • torontothegreat

    I'd also venture to say that McGuinty may have something to gain from saying no to “another hand-out for Toronto” with the Provincial voters.

  • http://openid.aliz.es/Think-before-you-speak Think-before-you-speak

    Surely Ford's cancelling of the bag tax and vehicle registration tax will pay for this transit situation. Right?

  • z00m3r

    Of course it does; it's a public service. Cities on the whole aren't supposed to be run for profit, like a McDonalds franchise, despite what the Brothers Ford and other bean-counting idiots may think.

    The bottom line, as usual, is that the TTC has been starving for long-term, _committed_ provincial/federal funding that most other major cities around the world have always depended on and still do. Fares cover about 75% of the TTC's operating costs; yeah, things could be running more smoothly, but under those circumstances it's a miracle things are as good as they are.

    We're now “the largest transit operator in Anglo-America not to receive provincial/state funding.” Thank you, Harris Conservatives.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…

    Going to the gov't hat in hand for one-time handouts every year or few is no way to keep a public transit system running properly. That said, I'd like McGuinty to say 'no' to the Mayor and put further pressure on him to stop building a hugely expensive extension to a subway almost nobody uses. Maybe that'll help him rethink 'his' whole transit plan as well.

  • z00m3r

    (otherwise biting my tongue) Anything to keep Hudak out.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    I've had loved to see a bit of political theatre from the premier:

    “After our discussion today, I'm proud to announce that we will not merely be handing Toronto a lump sum, but instead introducing legislation to give Mayor Ford the power to use whatever means he and his council prefer to raise the necess—*aide scurries up* Sorry, one second *whisper* What, really? *whisper, whisper* Well, isn't my face red. I'm told we already did that…in 2006.”

  • 24601

    As much as I dislike RoFo, I have to admit this is a brilliant move.

    Dalton agrees, Toronto gains conservative votes this fall (because Dalton fails to show fiscal restraint), Rob gets his subway

    Dalton disagrees, Toronto loses liberal votes this fall (because we don't get our subway), Rob blames Dalton.

    Even if it's not the man himself, someone is doing some serious strategic thinking for the provincial conservatives.

  • trevorz

    “The problem, from McGuinty's point of view, is that he has no idea yet if or how much money will be left over from those other projects—seeing as they haven't been built yet.”

    This is the key here, the 650 million, if there is any left over means the projects have to be completed or near completion.  Asking for this money before the start of any construction is just disingenuous

  • http://twitter.com/AnthSmith Anthony Smith

    “Dalton disagrees, Toronto loses liberal votes this fall (because we don't get our subway), Rob blames Dalton.”

    Sincerely doubt Dalton would lose Liberal votes due to loss of Sheppard Subway, a subway which nobody wants except Ford and his already-dedicated followers perhaps.

  • http://twitter.com/AnthSmith Anthony Smith

    “Dalton disagrees, Toronto loses liberal votes this fall (because we don't get our subway), Rob blames Dalton.”

    Sincerely
    doubt Dalton would lose Liberal votes due to loss of Sheppard Subway, a
    subway which nobody wants except Ford and his already-dedicated
    followers perhaps.

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    While I believe Ontario should bend over backwards for Toronto, the economic/cultural/political/everything-else-that-matters heart of the province (and much of the country), particularly when it comes to transit funding, I don't want McGuinty giving Ford a cent.

  • 24601

    McGuinty wouldn't lose liberal votes for 'failing' to fund transit?  Maybe not many, but he's not going to have many to lose this fall…

  • 00AV

    Fortunately though, a lot of us aren't that stupid and see right through this transparent attempt at gaining votes.

  • andrew97

    The subway would run through Don Valley East, Scarborough-Agincourt, and Scarborough-Centre. All three are held by the provincial liberals … but federally, DVE and S-C flipped from liberal to conservative in 2011. 

    Are the people who live on/near Sheppard East against a subway?

  • EDMUNDOCONNOR

    The hope of only the central section being dug is unlikely, given that they've already begun work at the current western terminus of the Eglinton LRT at Black Creek Drive and Eglinton Avenue West. EAs for an extension to Weston Road and Jane Street are expected to be completed by next year.

  • EDMUNDOCONNOR

    McGuinty will fold. He has a history of it.

  • EDMUNDOCONNOR

    It is lunacy. Maybe if this was 2015/2016, but now? No. And I would be more than amazed that the Eglinton LRT not only swallowed up every penny allotted (leaving none for Sheppard) but ask for more.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Whoosh.

    - heads of Toronto voters

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.moogk Benjamin Moogk

    How about the money is presented in the form of a bet? The $650 million in matching funds for the private investors money that can be raised for the Sheppard extension. Make it $1 from the province for every $5 dollars the City can raise.

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    Can you imagine? People supporting something without thinking through the outcome? Surely not in Ford Country! :)

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    I was talking to an Israeli tourist this past weekend. He's spent the last 10 months driving, bussing, and occasionally flying around N.America on a research trip.
    Because the Yonge line was closed between Eglinton and Bloor, he was going to have to take the bus going south. He asked me what the fare was. I told him $3.00 cash. He was shocked. In all his travels across N.America, he said, he hadn't yet had to pay that much for a single bus fare…

  • http://twitter.com/rockerTFC Rocker

    Sounds like the Conservatives' SuperBuild plan under Harris, which was dependent on private fundraising I believe.

  • 24601

    I'm just saying Rob Ford can't lose from this.  No matter whether you can see through it, it's campaign fodder that can only help the conservatives or hurt the liberals in the fall.

    Any damage it does to Ford won't be remembered by 2014.

  • HotDang

    Yes, but also no. The Yonge line generally covers it's operating expenses because it has the volume to sustain a subway. Steve Munro has a lot better info about this.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    NBD – we all know “Save Our Sheppard” really meant “Save Our Sheppard Car Lanes.”

  • nevilleross

    No.

  • nevilleross

    So it's $3.00? Big fracking deal. If the Israeli guy had done his homework (you know, checking out Wikipedia and the TTC website beforehand!) he would have known to buy a weekly pass, a day pass, or tokens. Just goes to show how stupid and lazy people can be when they travel.

  • nevilleross

    Except that most people don't bother to read Steve's blog, else they'd really learn about transit issues and not be a bunch of brainwashed sheeple.

  • nevilleross

    How about a world of no, and McGuinty says exactly that word to the fat fuck Ford?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=568171629 Evelyn Steinberg

    Please send your comments to the Premier and the  Mayor. Ford has broken most of his campaign promises, refuses to listen the the citizens of this city, is rude and arrogant to taxpayers, and needs to be held responsible for what he says and does. Ford Nation may be a real threat or just the boogy man but the anti-Ford nation is growing and feeling its oats!!!

  • torontothegreat

    I hope you explained why…

  • dsmithhfx

    So far, post-election Ford Nation has been a no-show any time it counted (e.g. public “consultations”). Does it still exist, apart from a brace of unhinged batrabots furiously pasting the same old shit on the g+m over and over and over ?

  • SlateGray

    5 big factors got Ford elected

    1. Lack of quality opposition (Miller and Tory did not run)
    2. Rise of the right wing propaganda machine.Self professed pundits on the right telling the the ignorant what to think!
    3. General anger about the state of the world focused by blob and dough and right wing hate/fear media on select targets, unions, bicyclists,GLBT, birthday parties, paid lunches….
    4. Morons to weak minded to think for themselves where duped by slogans like “Stop the Gravy Train” “Respect for taxpayers” “Guaranteed”…
    5. Trading on Stephen Harper's popularity

    I am not really that big a leftie .. if John Tory had run I would have voted for him, shame. Lets not make the same mistake on Hudak, we don't need a Stephen Harper lick-spittle for premier,

  • rich1299

    There will be no Shepard subway for a very very long time, probably not for many decades yet, they could have had an LRT that would've served more of Scarborough, been faster than a bus and way more comfortable, separated from car traffic cars would flow smoother with no buses stopping all the time blocking traffic, at a lower operating cost to the TTC since fewer drivers would be needed as well as fewer mechanics which could have allowed fares to stay as low as possible or perhaps allow more sensible expansion of improved transit. But instead Ford won the election and now all we'll get is an Eglinton LRT subway and a rebuilt SRT line when we could have had so much more at a much lower cost.

    I feel hopeful still for Toronto since LRTs are relatively cheap to build we might still be able to build some much needed LRT lines in the inner suburbs when Ford is tossed out. Maybe not a network of LRT lines like TC but any improvement in transit will help.

    Mind you a DRL should probably be the next priority for the TTC, especially if they complete it by going all the way from Pape, or where ever the start point on the east end was supposed to be, right to Dundas West station, it would also provide an east west subway downtown and could take pressure off the King and Queen streetcar lines, or possibly replace the King line outright since there are more large employers on or near King St and more condos than on Queen St. I think the Queen St line would be an ideal candidate for a buried LRT that could surface where there's room for dedicated lanes on its eastern and western edges.

    I dream that someday transit will get the funding priority it needs to ensure Toronto's continued success as a cash cow for the rest of the province and country.

  • dsmithhfx

    The Miller machine really fell apart in the last 12-18 months during which a lot of bad shit went down. He went AWOL (notably during the G20 when this city desperately needed a real leader to step up and own it), city hall was drifting aimlessly, and you could smell the blow-dried arrogance clear to Richmond Hill. So yeah, Miller bears a very large measure of responsibility for paving the way to what followed.

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    within the confines of the chat we were having in a retail situation, I did explain. He was sympathetic.

  • http://www.iterativearts.com bud latanville

    WOW! way to jump all over the guy with your ASSumption. Thanks for your thoughtful input.

  • http://twitter.com/ftefno Simon Vehicle!

    Ah, I see we're in wishful thinking territory.  Yes, this is another brilliant chess play by FordCo, and not a wild bumble.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    With all due respect – Queen doesn't need buried streetcars. Queen needs less private single occupancy vehicles. The streetcars are fine.

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    McGuinty isn't going to gain or lose any liberal votes in the next election – anyone who identifies as a liberal voter will vote for the liberal candidate. It's the 20-40% of undecided and undeclared voters who determine the outcome when they happen to all back the winner or clear a path (by splitting the vote) for the other guy.

  • vadmelikh

    Well, the ridership of the Sheppard line, on my memory, has increased drastically in a past 4-5 years. The trains are now packed in rush hour, thanks to all the development along the line. The extension is needed to divert the people traffic from the Sheppard station (Yonge line). Thus providing an alternative route to downtown. Yonge line needs a relief. I would run it through to Downsview station on the west side to create a loop.

  • rich1299

    I agree that reducing single occupant cars on Queen St would be the best, cheapest and most environmentally friendly solution, but how would that happen realistically? Make all of Queen St a HOV street? I doubt that's politically feasible. The TTC had once planned to bury the streetcar on Queen St, there's even a roughed in streetcar station below the current Queen St station on the Yonge subway that was built at the same time in anticipation of burying the streetcar line on Queen. Even if the Queen streetcar line was buried just through the busiest sections of Queen downtown it would help immensely. I live in south Etobicoke and have to put up with erratic streetcar arrivals since they get so bogged down in the traffic downtown.

    It would greatly improve transit in my part of town if they would create a new route that just ran from the Humber loop, or even Dundas West station to the Long Branch loop, even if it was only one out every 4 streetcars that ran that route it would provide some sort of reliability for the streetcars out my way while still having some run the full length of the route for those coming and going from downtown. As it is the downtown traffic is so bad that streetcars get bunched up by the time they make out to my end of the line and its not uncommon to wait 30-40 minutes for 3-4 streetcars traveling in a pack. Yes its the fault of having so many single occupant cars on our roads but I don't see how we can change that, while we can change the transit routes, either by burying them or running shorter routes along Lake Shore in the west end.

  • rich1299

    I do think that connecting the current Sheppard line to Downsview station would make sense and provide some relief for the Yonge line by giving riders an easy choice to switch to the University line, but not extending it any further east. Personally I think the best idea would be to convert the existing subway to LRT then run it above ground as planned in TC, that way there could be a continuous journey from Downsview all the way to eastern Scarborough. The condos going up on Sheppard are just on Sheppard, once you get off that street its all low density housing in all directions, a thin line of medium and high density buildings isn't going to create the density needed for subway to pay for itself, keep in mind too that the Sheppard subway uses only 4 car trains, not the usual 6.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    Consider:

    Burying the streetcar → hella expensive. Disruptive while it happens. Cars fill the vacated street; it's still congested.
    Toll → little infrastructure, new revenue stream. Cars leave the street; it's not congested and the streetcars run on time.

  • inov8t

    Whatever the case may be, we are light years behind cities comparable in size and this will cost us in the long run.  http://fakeisthenewreal.org/su…
    Rechargeable cash cards have been around on other subways for years now, while the TTC a.k.a Take The Car, still uses paper transfers.  Give everyone a reusable cash card that doesn't expire and see how fast rider-ship increases.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    I disagree about burying the streetcar. If you think making Queen HOV is politically infeasible, just wait until people realize the fallout from construction of an underground line – even if it's tunneled ($$$) and only the stations are cut and cover. If you thought St. Clair and Roncey were bad…

    I totally agree about decoupling Lake Shore from downtown – the longest streetcar line thing is a nice soundbite, but in practice it ends up insane. Etobicoke deserves better (and, for that matter, so do the Beaches).

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    I don't know about using tolls on Queen downtown, but a congestion charge zone would make sense south of Bloor, between Bathurst and Parliament (give or take).

  • Hunky69

    So where is TO heading? From working class Hogtown to the abyss…