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What It Sounds Like When Rob Ford Answers Questions at Council

20110224council.jpg
On the left: Councillor Joe Mihevc. On the right: respect for taxpayers.


One striking feature observers have noticed about the Rob Ford administration is how rarely the mayor himself actually speaks—to reporters, to his colleagues during debate, in front of cameras. And so councillors may have felt a rush of excitement yesterday when Ford took to the floor of the council chamber during the budget debate (which is still ongoing). Surely he would say something significant, advocate fiercely for the proposals before them?
Surprisingly, he did not. Instead were only a brief few sentences, during which Ford endorsed various of the motions up for consideration. But because council procedures are set up the way they are, when he speaks other councillors have the right to question the mayor.
At least, they can try.
Debate did not proceed productively, with Ford often seeming surprised that his colleagues were lining up to inquire about his budget priorities. Now, admittedly, debating can be inelegant. Sentences get started and stopped and rerouted. People cut each other off, and engage in all manner of rhetorical tactics to deflect interlocutors. But even by the sometimes questionable standards of the clamshell, this was a remarkable display of obfuscation. And because he’s spoken during council debates so rarely, we thought we’d transcribe a bit of yesterday’s exchange.


Each councillor gets up to five minutes to question the mayor. Here is the full, five-minute exchange that took place when Councillor Joe Mihevc (Ward 21, St. Paul’s) took his turn, moderated by Speaker Frances Nunziata (Ward 11, York South-Weston).

Nunziata: Councillor Mihevc—
Mihevc: Thank you very much madam speaker, I want to continue the questions of the mayor. Mr. Mayor, did you say during your election campaign, was it one of your campaign commitments—I can’t remember and I followed the campaign pretty closely—that water efficiency programs would be cut at the City? It’s a yes or no.
Ford: Councllor Mihevc. You want to talk about going off course here, we’ll talk about my election campaign in a minute. But you know what I have to do: I had three phone calls over lunch saying I shouldn’t have congratulated you on holding back on your pay increase, because you were one of the three people that voted in favour of keeping your pay increase.
Mihevc: Hold on…
Ford: No, no, let me finish. You asked a question and I’m just talking. If you want to go rogue in this then we’ll go rogue, which you’re doing. [Mihevc tosses his pen up with a combination of resignation and frustration.] So I have to apologize to the people which were watching. They were very upset that I gave you credit for freezing your wage. You did not, so I apologize. Now, if you want to continue about my campaign, let me tell you what my campaign was about.
Mihevc: No, madam chair…
Ford: No, you asked about my campaign
Mihevc [simultaneously]: I asked a very specific question
Nunziata: Okay, just one second, just one sec Councillor Mihevc, Mr. Mayor. Councillor Mihevc, you asked the mayor a question on his campaign promise. So! You asked the question, you opened up the door, and now allow him to answer the way he wants to answer, or [voice rising] don’t ask those questions.
Ford: Thank you madam speaker.
[Mihevc starts to speak.]
Nunziata: Hold on. Let the mayor speak.
Ford: Thank you. I campaigned on getting rid of the sixty dollar car tax, I got rid of the sixty dollar car tax. I did it. People felt there was this war on the car and I said that I was going to put an end to the war on the car. I said “I’m going to get rid of the sixty dollar car tax.” I did that at the first meeting. [Mihevc tries to speak.] Hold on, hold on. Councillor, councillor, councillor, councillor. Then, I said people had this lavish expense account of fifty-three thousand dollars [from] which one councillor who’s not here anymore had a retirement party, and [Mihevc tries to speak]—hold on. You asked me what I campaigned on. [Mihevc tries to speak.] I said I am going to get the expense accounts manageable. I reduced the expense accounts from fifty thousand down to thirty thousand, and again—correct me if I’m wrong—you did not support that.
Mihevc: No, I did.
Ford: Oh, you did? I apologize. Now, hold on. Then—I’m answering what I campaigned on, and that’s what he… [Both Mihevc's and Ford's mics get muted.]
Nunziata: Hold on. Hold on. Mayor Ford, please answer the questions on the budget, on what the questions are being asked. And Councillor Mihevc, please keep your questions related to the budget. Okay.
Mihevc: My questions is about the water efficiency. Did he or did he not—very focused question—say that he was going to cut these programs during his election campaign? I don’t need to hear about all the other things that he promised, just one specific area. Yes or no? It’s not an opportunity to give a speech,
Ford: I’m going to tell you. You know, I must have had fifty, sixty items that I campaigned on during my election campaign.
Mihevc: Was this one of them?
Ford: But at the end of the day, it was respect for taxpayers, and it was making sure every single dime will be accounted for when I’m mayor. I said I’m going to stop the wasteful spending—which I haven’t stopped, I’ve just started, I’ve only been in office for eighty days. I think we’ve done a lot, we’ve saved sixty-six million dollars in the first—
[Mihevc tries to say something.]
Ford: Hold on. No, you can’t switch your question, you can’t change your question.
Mihevc: But you’re not answering the first question! It’s a straight yes or no.
Ford: I said that…
Nunziata: Mr. Mihevc, please.
Mihevc: Speaker…
Ford [simultaneously]: The free food and the free drinks that would be out by now, the free buffet, I said I was going to get rid of that, saving the taxpayers fifty thousand dollars. The inauguration that we had, the meeting that we had that had all the bells and whistles last time—I said we don’t need to have this elaborate meeting. I save the taxpayers thirty thousand dollars there. My transition team, which Case Ootes led, saved [nods and shakes is head in disbelief]—there wasn’t even a budget, to be honest. I said I’m going to come in under budget.
[Mihevc is inaudibly imploring for Nunziata to intervene.]
Ford: I said I would not take the seventeen thousand dollar pay increase when I became mayor. They said a hundred and seventy thousand was not enough, I said…
Nunziata: Mayor Ford, Mayor Ford, please. Can you allow Councillor Mihevc to ask his question, please?
Mihevc: I have five questions.
Nunziata [to Ford]: Yes, specifically please.
Mihevc: I have five questions. I think our privilege and the privilege of frankly Torontonians who are listening to this—he is accountable, he ran on transparent, open, accountable government. If he can’t answer a simple question, which is “did you campaign on it, or not?”—a “yes” or a “no” would be a very, very appropriate answer—if I can’t get my answer and I can’t get my other four questions answered, then why are we here? I want to ask him a question about one topic and he goes over to his regular stump speech. I don’t think that that’s appropriate.
Nunziata; Okay, thank you Councillor Mihevc. Mayor Ford?
Ford: I answered.
Nunziata: Thank you.
Mihevc: My next question…
Nunziata: Your time is up Councillor Mihevc.

Council continues debating the 2011 budget at this time; you can watch online.

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  • torontothegreat

    I just feel like I live in some Bizarro world. Best quotes:

    “I said I'm going to stop the wasteful spending—which I haven't stopped, I've just started, I've only been in office for eighty days.”

    “My transition team, which Case Ootes led, saved [nods and shakes is head in disbelief]—there wasn't even a budget, to be honest. I said I'm going to come in under budget.”

  • John Duncan

    That's pretty much what I expected from Mayor Ford, based on previous performances.

    I am, however, shocked at Councillor Nunziata. As Speaker, isn't she supposed to keep these things on track? Why didn't she interrupt Mr. Ford and tell him to just answer the very precise question he was asked?

    Did Councillor Bussin do such a terrible and undeniably biased job when she was Speaker?

  • 00AV

    Absolute joke. 4 years of unbridled misery folks

  • EmiliaBedelia

    Rob Ford was probably the kid in the playground that would say “can't hear you, can't hear you, can't hear you” until whoever he was talking to got frustrated and walked away.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    So what else is new?

  • http://blog.yasmary.com yaz

    Is this normally how it goes in these meetings?? I would be so pissed.

  • http://twitter.com/lertitia letitia h.

    Consider emailing the mayor to tell him that you prefer clarity to obscuration:

    mayor_ford@toronto.ca

    Dear Mayor Ford,

    I was reading a transcript of your recent response to Councillor Mihevc's question during the budget debate about cutting water efficiency programs at the City. Councillor Mihevc asked if it was one of your campaign commitments to cut water efficiency programs at the City. After an exchange with Councillor Mihevc, you told the speaker that you answered the question. However, reading the transcript, it wasn't clear what you answer was. Could you please clarify for this citizen of the City: was it was of your campaign commitments to cut water efficient programs at the City? I would appreciate a clear “yes” or a clear “no” response.

    With thanks,

    (your name)

  • http://twitter.com/carlyrhiannon carlyrhiannon

    I feel like this is city council filtered through a Monty Python lens. Except it's not. It's our sad, sad reality.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Ya, like David Miller, or any politician for that matter, has ever not avoided a question. Mihevic is a Miller lap dog, who, as Ford pointed out, voted to have his salary increased as the common taxpayer's salaries remain relatively frozen, and the cost of living skyrockets. When will those who voted against Ford stop with the whining and accept they lost? The wasteful spending, and the little pet projects that your left of centre, elitist city councillors have enjoyed for the term of Miller are gone, the war on the car is over, people who constantly come to the city with their hands out looking for cash to prop up their non-contributing causes will no longer get those handouts. The free ride is over.

  • isyouhappy

    Hi, I was just wondering what these 'non-contributing causes' and 'pet projects' are that you're talking about. Can we sidestep the Ford generalizations and start talking constructively about specifics please?

  • http://twitter.com/andrewencer Andrew Wencer

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, “lap dog”, “elitist”, “war on the car”, “handouts”, “free ride”, etc etc etc. Any parrot with a lobotomy can regurgitate pet phrases without adding to the debate. By making noise, it seems as though you are contributing to the conversation, when in reality, not so much.

    But if elitism means that when you ask a yes or no question, and get 5 minutes of verbal diarrhea in response, and you're still wondering a) what the yes or no answer was and b) why the mayor is afraid to answer it – if that's elitism, then by means, sign me up as an elitist.

  • McKingford

    Nunziata got her job with the obvious understanding that she would be RoFo's lackey. In order to keep that job, she understands that her obligation is to kowtow to RoFo, not serve the people of Toronto by actually performing her speaker duties honourably. So this is what we should expect for the next 4 years (minus 80 days)…

  • John Duncan

    I think you might want to ask why the common taxpayers' salaries remain relatively frozen, rather than railing against people who are getting a fair deal.
    The answer is elites, but they're not left-of-centre. Ask either of the Fords what they've taken home from their part-time executive jobs at Deco Labels over the last few years, and see what they tell you.
    Sadly the free ride our richest citizens have been enjoying at others expense is not over.

  • http://twitter.com/carlyrhiannon carlyrhiannon

    “When will those who voted against Ford stop with the whining and accept they lost?”

    When Ford's supporters stop whining about David Miller. So, probably never – which is actually the way it should be. The great thing about a democracy is that we can voice our displeasure when we don't like what our elected officials are doing.

    Also, those people “with their hands out looking for cash” and the councillors who support them? They're usually looking for money for programs that will make life better for all citizens. Which is the opposite of elitist, really.

  • isyouhappy

    Done! but you might want to fix the ” Could you please clarify for this citizen of the City: was it was of your campaign” to: “Could you please clarify for this citizen of the City: was it one of your campaign”

  • http://twitter.com/lertitia letitia h.

    also: “you answer” should be “your answer”. I type poorly when trying to mask my ire.

  • http://twitter.com/sarahbarmak Sarah Barmak

    Now that's how to use taxpayers' money.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Original point being, Rob Ford is a politician, politicians dodge questions they don't want to answer. Have you not figured this out by now Andrew? More importantly, Mayor Ford has come through on other campaign promises, which is not typical of a politician, and it looks like he will follow through on quite a few more. Again Andrew, you lost. The sooner you deal with it, the sooner we can all move on and get this city back in the hands of those who work, pay taxes and contribute.

    Oh, and it looks like the same trend is happening at the provincial level, McGuinty is looking like he is going to pander to Ford and give him all that he requests. Why? He sees that taxpayers are sick and tired of the waste, sick of the handouts, and Tim Hudak is counting on that as well.

    Wow, a conservative government federally, soon to be at the provincial level, and a right of centre city hall. What is a leftist to do? Some of you might have to work!

  • http://twitter.com/maharper82 Matthew Harper

    The War on Cars has always been fought by cars against other cars. It's just heating up and it's only going to be getting worse over the next 4 years.

  • http://twitter.com/gilmourtaylor Geoff Gilmour-Taylor

    It's not that he's avoiding one question. Yes, a lot of politicians avoid questions. It's that Ford avoids every unfriendly question.

    For someone who likes to have an image of being straightforward and pugnacious, Mayor Ford vacillates and hides from his detractors a lot.

  • JHannaford

    Mihevic didn't lose. His constituents voted him in, just as Ford was voted in. Nothing to “accept” there.

    Also, I'm *sure* that both times Miller won you just “accepted” that the right-wing viewpoint lost, and never complained or lobbied for change, right? After every election the “loser” sits on their hands and shuts up until the next election?… Give me a break!

    P.S.: At what point did the left actually become “elite”? Conservatives love to throw that label around, but last time I checked it was the corporate fat-cats with all the cash & power, and they certainly seem to skew right. Is it supposed to be a slam against culture or intelligence? Because I just don't see how the left has any more of the wealth.

  • JHannaford

    Thanks for the advice, troll. But as a left-wing, “contributing” taxpayer who already has a job, maybe I'll just keep battling your side's ignorance instead.

  • http://twitter.com/andrewencer Andrew Wencer

    It's not about winning and losing. If you think that's what city government is for, for sticking it to the other guy, then I weep for this city. Ford is mortgaging the future for the sake of sticking to unrealistic, and unfounded, campaign promises. (such as the myth of the war on the car) One of his other promises, by the way, was to respond to everyone who asked him something – I'm paraphrasing here, I know. But if his idea of response is to not answer a simple yes or no question, what is the point?

    I work, I pay taxes. Is that what you really think? That everyone else – and remember, the majority of voters did not vote for Ford, he merely was the one with the most votes – are you actually suggesting that the majority of residents in this city are unemployed and sponging off the city teat? You've bought into another myth, my friend.

  • http://twitter.com/mrmikeschulz Michael Schulz

    Well, I sent an email. I hope others do so as well.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Ah, yes, the old fall back when you can think of no better argument, “get a job.” Truly classy, truly accurate.

  • Df4

    Just added my voice to that chorus. Email sent.

    I await his lordship's pre-fabricated & generic email response about customer service excellence and a transportation city, as usual.

  • McKingford

    Exactly. These guys are like a Chatty Kathy doll – just pull the string and their senseless talking points pour out. Rinse, repeat. It helps them live their fact-free existence (facts, of course, having a well-known liberal bias).

  • http://twitter.com/640k Paul V

    You say that Ford has come through on promises, but one of his main planks was that he's an honest, down-to-earth guy that will stop the secrecy and the back-room deals at City Hall. So it is totally legitimate to criticize him for his secrecy and evasion given his platform. Even if you support other things he's done, you can criticize his actions here.

  • http://twitter.com/carlyrhiannon carlyrhiannon

    It's true! Not one single politically left-leaning person in this city has a job or pays taxes.

  • Crankypants_21

    Serious question: Was what Frances Nunziata did here even the slightest bit LEGAL?

    I don't have easy access to applicable statutes, laws and regulations, but I'm thinking that some sort of action can be taken in regard to her complete and blatant disregard (and flouting) of the process. In my opinion, she is even worse (far worse, really) than Ford in this completely disgusting abdication of responsibility.

  • MichaelOrnot

    But Wayne, didn't Rob insist that he wasn't that kind of politician, the kind that dodge questions they don't want to answer? Didn't he use the same rhetoric to attack his opponents?
    And while all politicians may be liars (if you subscribe to that view), is this a trait that you really want to tacitly accept and not ask for, or insist on, something better?
    Surely you see the oversimplification of your 'left vs. right' analysis? Do you really not remember the corruption of the Harris years? (And I'm not saying the either side is cleaner than the other.) Do you really think that only people on the right work or pay taxes?
    Or maybe we get the politicians we deserve?

  • http://ronypony.blogspot.com/ Jennifer

    Is there somewhere we can go to watch this video? That would be fascinating…

  • Nick

    The whole point of the rebate for the low-water toilets (which are more efficient and reduce water wastage) is to reduce the demand on the city's water filtration and purification system. This way, we don't need to build a new plant in 5-10 years at $100 million plus dollars. So it's not some airy-fairy lefty conspiracy but rather a very pragmatic goal. Ford: penny-wise, pound foolish (except when it comes to his ridiculous plan to build a subway on Sheppard at the expense of much needed transit lines elsewhere, like Finch West, even if this is funded by some P3 plan, which ultimately will stick it to taxpayers big time in any case).

  • http://twitter.com/WrkrBe Worker Bee

    Hysterical! Rob Ford is a one-trick pony who obviously hasn't got what it takes. Someone aptly nicknamed him “Fordzilla” – he'll create a lot of damage before he's through!

  • HamutalDotan
  • McKingford

    Council is self-governing. I think the way it works is that speaker makes the rules/rulings, subject to challenge by council. The appropriate recourse is to challenge the speaker's ruling and council would vote on whether or not to sustain the challenge.

  • pickle_juice_drinker

    a) Mihevc won about three times as many votes in his (my) ward as Ford did. Our ward also handily picked Smitherman.

    b) Ford is your typical legacy fat cat.

  • David Toronto

    Ms. Nunziata is not fulfilling the role of speaker because
    she show partiality to Ford and shows no independence
    or respect for the parliamentary custom and practices.

    I watched parts of the two days' proceedings and I am appalled
    at her bias and favoritism.

    I hope her mis-handling of her role spills out into the
    mainstream media and forces Ford to choose another
    person who is respected for fairness and impartiality.

    As it stands, she's a travesty of a speaker.

  • pickle_juice_drinker

    @Wayne

    Did you ever see the clips of Ford going off when he was a councillor? There are a few on Youtube if you're interested. Most of the time he never even made it to the point of asking whatever he was going to ask, he would pretty much stand up and go off on some weird tangent punctuated by his own bizarre biases.

    It's not at all surprising that his pattern of all noise and no substance continues today.

    Kind of like your original post, an accusation that a) Miller sucked, b) some sort of rhetoric about the election, c) some sort of rhetoric about pet projects, war on car, etc. Substance? No thanks! If I wanted to read that I could go hang out in the Star's comment section and read that same exact post for the 1000th consecutive time.

  • matthewdouglasalexander

    I didn't vote against Rob Ford. I voted FOR Joe Pantalone. I knew Joe probably wouldn't win, but I wanted to feel good about the person I put my support behind.

    I don't know how anyone who voted for Rob Ford could feel good about him representing them the way he speaks and behaves. Even if you do agree with his “policies”.

  • matthewdouglasalexander

    It's easy to make good on promises to stop things, cut things, end things and kill things. (David Miller promised to kill the bridge to the island airport and delivered on that, where's his kudos?).

    But when is Rob Ford actually going to DO something, START something, ACCOMPLISH something, BUILD something?

    I can easily NOT run in a marathon, but it takes real strength and determination to actually run.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto
  • Toronto_Dave

    Yeah, yeah….Gravy train this, free ride that. War on cars. Ford likes subways. Kyle Rae's retirement party, blerb blerb blerb.

    We know Ford won, but don't tell us to “Get over it.” We all have to live with the guy for the next 4 years – and the great thing about living in a democracy is that we get to criticize our elected officials. Kind of like how you and your right-wing cohorts continue to bash Miller, even when he's no longer mayor. Talk about accepting the past and moving on.

    You can't run a city on vague sloganeering and token gestures alone. Sooner or later, you actually have to, well, run a city. And until Ford realizes this (still waiting, don't expect it to happen), I will remain a vocal opponent.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Honestly, I spent a better part of my voting life wasting my votes on liberal, left wing thinking. And as I have seen quite often in others, you grow up, have kids, start working, etc, and realize that the people you voted for are taking the exorbitant amount of taxes they strip from our paycheques, and spend it on everything but what you want them to spend it on (ie. art shows instead of infranstructure, fesitvals instead of transit). So, I have voted for the David Millers, the McGuintys, I railed on Mike Harris, I voted against Harper, and then “life” really started, and what a change. I look back at Mike Harris' Common Sense Revolution now, and think, “what was I so upset about?”.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Oh, nearly forgot to remind everyone here.

    Ford won. You lost. Enjoy!

  • Toronto_Dave

    Why always the assumption among right-winger that if you don't agree with them, you must be unemployed? Where did this come from?

    And, incidentally, you can't call us “elites” and still refer to us as a bunch of jobless bums who need to get off the dole. Can't have it both ways, boss.

    And again…Sick of the waste? Please supply a detailed list of examples and explain why you consider them to be wasteful. I know you conservatives hate anything to do with the environment or culture, but that doesn't necessarily make it frivolous.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Also, you can't call us “elites” and still refer to us as a bunch of jobless bums who need to get off the dole.

    Shhh… Logic, not the common sense revolution's strongest point.

  • istoronto

    Sounds like you're suffering from a serious case of demenita, if you can't remember what Harris did to upset you.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    I'm winning every day more than Ford will ever be able to, what with not having my private-sector job handed to me on my daddy's platter, not being a two-faced politician latching onto a three-word slogan and playing fast and loose with those things we call facts and reality, oh yeah and not being a fat-ass who nevertheless manages to get wasted in public. Thanks!

  • ezrahouser

    1) “Art shows” are actually part of a cultural infrastructure, despite the scornful derision with which they are referred to.
    2) There is more to creative, cultural based programs than simply “art shows.”
    3) Funding for cultural programs gives people (our children, seniors, immigrants, citizens, taxpayers, and non-taxpayers) a chance to live healthier, happier lives. Doing things (like silly little programs and activities or going to festivals) with other people is necessary to have a secure society. If we don't have these excuses to come together, as a civic community we forget how to cooperate, respect each other, appreciate each other, and love each other.
    4) Partisanship seems to ignore the very basic rule that we don't have to be friends, but we have to be friendly. Who can possibly win when we get arguing so hard that we somehow fail to truly care about each other?
    5) On this I can agree: Ford won. We lost.

  • isyouhappy

    Ugh. As much as I dislike Mr. Ford's politics can we step away from the 'fat ass' name calling, it doesn't serve any purpose except to strengthen Ford's 'everyones against me- poor me! poor me! angle'.

    There are so many (SO MANY!) other constructive criticisms that we can (deco) label him.

  • istoronto

    So you have reduced the governance of our city to a winner takes all game. If it was a game, it's over and so is the post game party. When is Ford going to stop rehashing his single minded game plan and start working to improve the quality of life for ALL of the citizen of Toronto? The only thing he has done so far is give up a few dollars for those selfish, greedy taxpayers, who have only have their own interests at heart.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Forgive me for concluding Wayne is not interested in hearing out constructive criticism.

  • tyrannosaurus_rek
  • torontothegreat

    All of those things actually HELPED you to “grow up”, “have kids”, “start working”, “etc”.

    Now you no longer need these things and you figure fuck everyone else? You sound like an awesome contribution to our society :P

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    In reply to 1, 2, 3, these should be funded by the private sector, if you want it? Pay for it yourself, don't take from my wallet.
    I can agree with 4, but my ranting began when I came on here and saw the typical anti-Ford rhetoric. There is common ground to be found, I certainly don't agree with all Ford says or does.
    As for 5, the play on my statement is cute, but really, there are better things to come, not just with Ford running this city, but with a much more fiscally responsible government coming in provincially. There is a near boiling point conservative, libertarian backlash happening in this country, in all of North America for that matter. Its a great time to be alive.

  • ezrahouser

    I hope so, but I worry at the math written on the wall when governments are supposed to be fiscally conservative and we are supposed to rely on the private sector to fund public programs. The private entities that have access to the most resources tend to prioritize their own corporate interests and not really get involved in contributing to the common welfare. If the government is stripped of the ability to plan and fund programs for the public good, and private donors don't step up to the plate (relying on rich benefactors is problematic anyways), then the poorest people who need the most help will suffer the most as they can't afford to pay for services that can foster better quality lives.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    The private sector does plenty to help, on a large scale, Bell just gave millions to Mental Health. On a smaller scale, I went to a Valentine's Day event in my area hosted by Glen de Baermaker, sponsored by RBC. Glen tends to use quite a lot of his budget on these events, however, post-Miller it looks as though he is reaching out to sponsors.

    My point being, if we, the people, want something, we need to pay for it, voluntarily. If no one wants it, they stop paying for it, and it dies.

    As for fostering better quality lives for those who cannot afford to, I can get on board with that, I'm not completely anti-socialism, but there is a lot of money going to a lot of people who do not deserve it.

  • http://adam.hotchin.ca/ Adam H.

    Wayne, if conservatives are so financially responsible, why is it that it's pretty much always the right-wing governments that increase deficit spending and it's the left-wing governments balancing the budgets?

    You can't seriously look at what Ford's done so far and conclude that he's made wise long-term choices. All he's done is create a massive budget shortfall that he can't fill.

  • istoronto

    I enjoy festivals and cultural events. If you're suggesting I pay for these events out of pocket, then I don't think I should be paying for road repairs because I don't have a car. I don't like professional sports, my money shouldn't subsidizing sports fields, teams and venues. My children are all grown up. Stop using my money for daycares, community centres, libraries and parks. I only generate 1/20 the garbage that my neighbours do, why I'm I paying nearly as much for collections. Technically, the city should be refunding 80% of my property taxes based on the services I use.

    Our taxes are tossed into a pot that hopefully benefits everyone. I'm fine with that. You obviously are not. So move to somewhere with lower taxes. I suggest, Detroit.

  • torontothegreat

    What constitutes “not deserving it” in your mind?
    You've also seemingly not comprehended 1, 2 or 3 of ezrahouser post at all.

  • Crankypants_21

    I voted for Pantalone, too. He wanted to keep up green and transit initiatives, but the most important plank on his platform was to break the megacity back into boroughs. Wow: We actually would have had community planning and control back. Imagine that.

  • Eric S. Smith

    Ford: penny-wise, pound foolish (except when it comes to his ridiculous plan to build a subway

    Oh, I think that falls under “pound foolish,” too, if we compare the cuts that he's so proud of with the cost of the money pit that he wants to dig on Sheppard.

  • Crankypants_21

    Yeah, I looked through the City of Toronto Act and the Municipal Act of Ontario last night and couldn't come up with anything. Which is beyond sad, really, because if there is nothing there with which to pin Nunziata down, it's wide open all over for speakers to abuse their posts. To hell with keeping order, facilitating debate and discussion, and moving to clarify discussion, then. Let's just tilt the table consistently to one faction's favour and establish policy and law that way.

    Absolutely sickening and abusive. If it really is a case of just self-governing, then these other councillors have a duty to start interjecting and squawking… and fast. This is already clearly out of hand, to the point of being corrupt.

    I'm wondering if writing to the city ombudsman, on top of council, would do any good….

  • Crankypants_21

    From the esteemed and self-centred Wayne Snow (which actually sounds like the kind of pseudonym Rob Ford would use):

    “Ford won. You lost. Enjoy!”

    Now, look at that statement:

    1. Yes, Rob Ford won the mayoral election.
    2. Yes, it's clear from the Torontoist's transcription of this “debate” alone that we're ALL losing as a result.
    3. Enjoy your massive increase in taxes, Wayne, when a whole lot of employment and services have to be called in as this lovely city goes to rot.

    I do enjoy that your thinking is about as myopic as Ford's though. Makes you a hell of a sage.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    I don't agree with giving money to professional sports teams either, if the people don't want it, they won't pay for it (see Jets, Winnipeg, Nordiques, Quebec City). And you don't want to pay for road repair? You never take a car? Anywhere? Do you use above ground transit? Do you walk on the sidewalks? And yes, taxes are tossed into a pot, but there seems to be some, and I'm gonna guess based on the leanings of the commenters/readers on this site, frequently have both hands in that pot, looking for funds that benefit only themselves.

  • Eric S. Smith

    The best part is that Ford could just have made some crack like, “No, I didn't campaign on low-flow toilets, did you?” and then gone on about respect for taxpayers and how taxpayers don't need Big Government telling them to save water, they want to get rid of the sixty dollar car registration fee and the land transfer tax, insert further campaign gibberish here.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Do they Adam?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    What am I not understanding? What is you're not understanding?

  • Eric S. Smith

    looking for funds that benefit only themselves.

    How is this not you, complaining that you don't want to pay for stuff that doesn't interest you?

  • Toronto_Dave

    Wow. “Liberals are liberals until they grow up.” Another classic right-wing line. Keep 'em coming, Wayne.

    Also known as: I used to be a left-winger, until my own festering resentments towards other people and the high cost of raising a family made me angry and hateful towards anyone and anything outside my front door. Nowadays? Fuck 'em, I say.

    Damn. I turned thirty, have a decent job, house and a kid on the way. Yeah, life and taxes really suck. Poor baby.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    The funds in that pot should be used to pay for the basic needs of the majority of taxpayers. Not some art show, cultural event, or to subsidize the lives of those who refuse to work. Look, Ford got in with nearly 47% of the vote, just ask those people where that money should be spent. Problem solved. ;)

  • torontothegreat

    Uhhhh…. the meaning? Hence the comprehension remark?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    No, torontothegreat, there is no misunderstanding, points 1, 2, 3 were understood, and replied to. If the people want it, they will pay for it, its called free will.

  • Toronto_Dave

    “Ford won. You lost. Enjoy!”

    How poignant. Almost a haiku, only with the wrong arrangement of syllables.

    I think we can officially dismiss you as a troll right about now. Shall we stop feeding him, folks?

  • torontothegreat

    “The funds in that pot should be used to pay for the basic needs of the majority of taxpayers.”

    “Look, Ford got in with nearly 47% of the vote, just ask those people where that money should be spent. Problem solved. ;)

    *tilts head* HUH!?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Just turned 30 Dave, kids on the way? Real life just beginning? Get ready, your outlook is about to change, it happened to me…

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Yes, see the smiley face with the wink? Google it.

  • torontothegreat

    Do you even know what free will means?

  • torontothegreat

    Talking to you is like clapping with one hand.

  • torontothegreat

    But if the private sector pays for it, then I'm still not paying for it. The private sector is. Which affects you by increasing costs to consumer goods or *gasp* tax breaks.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Yes, as in, I am going to use my free will to stop responding to this portion of the thread.

  • Toronto_Dave

    Guess we'll see.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Zing!

  • istoronto

    And you don't want to pay for road repair?
    _____________________________________

    I didn't say, I don't want to pay for road repair. I said I shouldn't have to pay for it, based on not having a car. It was Ford who said roads are for Cars, trucks and buses. I pay over $100/ month to ride on the TTC. That covers my portion of road repairs. Yeah and I walk on sidewalks. Why I should pay the same amount of taxes as someone who use a car? My feet don't do nearly as much damage to a sidewalk as a car does to a road. I can tell you that if I had a car, I wouldn't have bitched about a $60 VRT. A small fee for the services it would have provided. I agree with you that there are people with both hands in the pot, but I disagree that they are most of the commenters/readers on this site. The people with both hands in the pot, tend to be the ones that already have a big pot or two and are greedy enough not to want to share.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733255383 Edmund O'Connor

    Nunziata is applying a very, very … how shall I put this politely? … *idiosyncratic* interpretation to council debates. A speaker doing his/her job would have pressed Ford on Mihevc's specific question, instead of helping Ford out. She also being extraordinarily rigid on interpreting the confines of the budget debate. Whether that's because of her interpretation of the rules, or whether she's being leaned on by the mayor's staff, I don't know.

  • torontothegreat

    It sounds like your life is just full of bad decision making and you're looking to blame someone other than yourself.

    *thumbs up*

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSE4TAXVGSJDLUE2ZBS545MI4 sal h

    Wayne Snow, you've repeatedly typed the “get-a-job” sentiment. And yet, you've been on this page for several hours now. I have a job, but I think I'd rather have yours: How much do you get paid to troll comment threads? I hear that occupation fast-tracks a person to the mayor's position these days.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Ever heard of “shifts”?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    I see sidewalks constantly being upgraded, curbs being cut, repavings, etc. And do you not travel in cars at all?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Sure, I've made bad decisions, haven't we all? But my political/social leanings have nothing to do with any mistakes I have made and corrected from the past. When you make financial mistakes, tighten the belt torontothegreat, cut wasteful spending.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    By the way, based on the number of comments generated by this article, as compared to the rest of the articles on this site, I'm guessing the Torontoist doesn't get many viewpoints from the other side of the argument huh?

  • istoronto

    I very rarely travel in a car. Wayne have you ever attended a festival or cultural event in Toronto? Beaches jazz? Caribana? Harbourfront Jazz? City Hall New year's eve celebration? Santa parade? Taste of the Danforth? Nuit Blanche? Participate in a charity run? Played shinny at an Arena?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    I've done quite a few of those things, all fun events. However, if they cannot stand on their own two feet, those activities die. I would be happy to pay cash out of my pocket to attend those events/activities, that way, I'm using my money for what I wish to use my money for. The taxes I pay then go to things like health care, infrastructure, etc.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733255383 Edmund O'Connor

    Nunziata is applying a very, very … how shall I put this politely? … *idiosyncratic* interpretation to council debates. A speaker doing his/her job would have pressed Ford on Mihevc's specific question, instead of helping Ford out. She also being extraordinarily rigid on interpreting the confines of the budget debate. Whether that's because of her interpretation of the rules, or whether she's being leaned on by the mayor's staff, I don't know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733255383 Edmund O'Connor

    Nunziata is applying a very, very … how shall I put this politely? … *idiosyncratic* interpretation to council debates. A speaker doing his/her job would have pressed Ford on Mihevc's specific question, instead of helping Ford out. She also being extraordinarily rigid on interpreting the confines of the budget debate. Whether that's because of her interpretation of the rules, or whether she's being leaned on by the mayor's staff, I don't know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733255383 Edmund O'Connor

    Nunziata is applying a very, very … how shall I put this politely? … *idiosyncratic* interpretation to council debates. A speaker doing his/her job would have pressed Ford on Mihevc's specific question, instead of helping Ford out. She also being extraordinarily rigid on interpreting the confines of the budget debate. Whether that's because of her interpretation of the rules, or whether she's being leaned on by the mayor's staff, I don't know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733255383 Edmund O'Connor

    Nunziata is applying a very, very … how shall I put this politely? … *idiosyncratic* interpretation to council debates. A speaker doing his/her job would have pressed Ford on Mihevc's specific question, instead of helping Ford out. She also being extraordinarily rigid on interpreting the confines of the budget debate. Whether that's because of her interpretation of the rules, or whether she's being leaned on by the mayor's staff, I don't know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733255383 Edmund O'Connor

    Nunziata is applying a very, very … how shall I put this politely? … *idiosyncratic* interpretation to council debates. A speaker doing his/her job would have pressed Ford on Mihevc's specific question, instead of helping Ford out. She also being extraordinarily rigid on interpreting the confines of the budget debate. Whether that's because of her interpretation of the rules, or whether she's being leaned on by the mayor's staff, I don't know.

  • Eric S. Smith

    The funds in that pot should be used to pay for the basic needs of the majority of taxpayers. Not some art show

    You aren't interested in an art show, so therefore it's not a “basic need of the majority.” Someone else is interested in an art show, so therefore they are going at the public purse with “both hands.”

    You will of course insist that I am misrepresenting your thinking, but here you are insisting that the public should “pay for the basic needs,” at one end of your paragraph and blustering about social programmes at the other.

  • torontothegreat

    That's the most linear financial advice I've ever heard in my entire life. What a crock.

  • sadp

    “Not some art show, cultural event, or to subsidize the lives of those who refuse to work.”

    I think these things represent a far, far smaller proportion of tax revenue expenditures than other things you consider beneficial to a “majority of taxpayers”.

  • torontothegreat

    So basically only the elite can have access to those things… Gotchya!

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    I don't use health care. I shouldn't pay for it, right? If it can't stand on its own two feet, it should die.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Most of 'sidewalk' construction is actually related to utility work, like the current mess on Dundas West.

    The last time I travelled in a personal automobile was in late December. I shouldn't pay for repaving Steeles West, right? If someone wants it, they'll pay for it.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    If there was more money in my pocket due to tax cuts, as a result of cutting wasteful spending, I would have more discretionary money to spend on festivals, events, etc. It also forces these events to be cost effective to attract more than just those who have that extra cash, perhaps by reaching out to corporate sponsors.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    This damn real life thing is so elusive! They told me it was just beginning when I was about to graduate university, now I have to wait until I'm 30 and with children?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Yes you do qviri. If were going to debate, please be honest.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    I gave you a high level explanation of my financial history, and gave my common sense resolution to clean up that history. How is that a crock? Cleaning up financial issues can be a very linear exercise.

  • John Duncan

    This is fun!

    I'll define real life as beginning when you get to stop putting in 60 hour weeks at work. Let's say turning 65 and looking to retire?
    Having health problems, lost your licence and can't drive, have no pension and lost your savings because of unregulated traders screwing the world's economy? Freedom at last.

    Thank god for those tax cuts instead of investment in infrastructure and building employment opportunities for the young! Society better not try to help me out, because it's none of their business.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    No, I really don't. That's what happens when you're 23 and male. The last time I was at a dentist was either 2009 or 2008, I can't remember. I've never had a family doctor. When I get sick, it's a cold and passes within two weeks. I've never broken a bone nor is it likely that I will in the next decade. I got an eye exam in 2009 and have been buying contacts off the shelf since ever. What am I missing?

    So, I shouldn't pay for health care, right?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    qviri, again, lets be honest, you know that the fact that you have not used health care is not in the norm.
    Just because you are in a position to not use it now, doesn't mean you will not use it in the future, in fact, I can guarantee you will. Do you think you're going to be 23 forever? You haven't been to the dentist in 3 years?? How are those chicklets lookin'?

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Yup, misrepresenting my thinking…

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Hm. So what you're saying is that I should pay for something other people might use now, or I might use in the future? An interesting idea.

  • isyouhappy

    Don't you get it? Wayne only argues what revolves around his world. He seemingly comes from a place of privilege, and therefore demands that everyone live to his standard. He assumes that if he can 'make it' so can everyone else by 'just getting a job!'(because everyone else who values city services don't work!).

    He views culture as entertainment, and therefore everyone else should only view culture as entertainment. It doesn't matter if someone else has a different value of culture(be it social, educational, inspirational) because 'at the end of the day' it comes out his pocket(but at a disproportionate value when compared to services he mistakingly equates as being equal in terms of funding… arts funding vs. infrastructure).

    I mean why bother analyzing specifics of issues he's debating? Generalizations and buzzwords get the job done! Throwing around terms is easy and makes him sound as though he's involved, even though only on a surface level. In reality all he wants to be is left alone so he can aggravate, annoy, divide and un-constructively stir the pot trolling for attention.

    See there's no point debating with Wayne as his myopic view on city building revolves around himself, and what he gets out of it. Because at the 'end of the day' it all comes down to Wayne.

  • Eric S. Smith

    It's telling that welfare, which he doesn't anticipate needing to use personally, is “subsidizing the lives of those who refuse to work,” while health care, which he does want, is one of those “basic needs.” And if that crack was meant only to apply to welfare cheats, amount of money involved is smaller yet.

  • http://twitter.com/dpnsan Dave Pijuan-Nomura

    Trolls gonna troll…

    Accept that politicians are as bad as their stereotypes? I hold my politicians to a higher standard, as we all should. What taxpayers are sick of is politicians who give them no hope. Ford is a lost cause in my book.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    No, isyouhappy (are you?), my views do not come or stem from a position of priviledge, in fact, more from a lack of. I work, I pay taxes, I want to pay LESS taxes, and have more discretionary money. I will spend that money on culture, give it to charity, whatever i feel fit to do with my money. Its not a complicated argument, I'm pretty sure its resonating somewhere for you. But hey, you're right, there's no point in debating someone who's view differs from yours. Just keep discussing with those who support what you think, its a great way to learn!

  • Eric S. Smith

    Do you think you're going to be 23 forever?

    Well, you're apparently never going to need welfare, reading between the lines of some of your previous statements.

    You haven't been to the dentist in 3 years??

    Wait, are you advocating that OHIP be extended to cover dental?

    How are those chicklets lookin'?

    Probably fine, assuming regular brushing and flossing. Why are you against people taking personal responsibility for their oral health instead of leaving it all up to the supervision of the Nanny Dentist? Maybe isyouhappy spent money that might have gone to dental bills on charity for the deserving poor.

  • http://twitter.com/dpnsan Dave Pijuan-Nomura

    Rogers TV requires Silverlight? Only Rogers can fail so hard.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Touche Eric, touche. OHIP doesn't cover dental, and I didn't imply that it did in my post. And I have been on welfare, was on it for a year long ago, it was unbelievably easy to get, and I didn't have to do a thing to keep it. I didn't work, I spent the money on booze, junk food, etc. I know first hand how this money gets wasted.

    Oh, and I wouldn't suggest going public with your findings about solely taking care of your own teeth and not needing regular checkups. You will really p*ss off the dental industry, they have all this research to the contrary, what a waste of time and money!

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    John, you forgot to end your rant with something about the G20 and “maaaaaaaaaaaan!”.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Ah ha, I thought I was debating with a student.

  • Eric S. Smith

    I'm pretty sure its resonating somewhere for you.

    Remember, folks, if you value social programmes and public funding of the arts, you're a self-hating taxpayer!

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Sorry to disappoint! I have a job, pay taxes, pay my own rent in full, all the boring stuff that apparently still doesn't make for a real life.

  • torontothegreat

    Yes, linear (read: Short Sighted) brains may think that it is in fact a very linear exercise.

    Tightening a belt isn't the only solution to holding your pants up. Get it now? Problem with people like you and Mr. Ford, is you have no concept of “other” concepts. You instead, react to things like a pavlovian condition instead of actually problem solving.

  • torontothegreat

    *swoosh*

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Luckily, judging by the 'likes' most of your comments in this thread received just now, this is changing rapidly!

  • torontothegreat

    I also have never used the healthcare system. So it's not outside of the norm. If everyone in this country used our share of Health Care, then people with Cancer would have to die. There would be a massive strain on the service itself, if in fact the majority of people DID use health care. I don't think you've thought that out at all…

  • tyrannosaurus_rek

    Yes Wayne, he won and everyone else lost.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Don't you know? Real life involves children, and health care for children is expensive.

  • istoronto

    Wayne, if you're 30, then I've have been paying property taxes for 5 years longer than you've been alive and some form of income tax for 45 of 60 years. Unlike you, I never needed to go on welfare. Also unlike you, I never begrudged or belittled someone that needed welfare. Admitting to abusing the welfare system and lack of empathy you show, suggest that your days on welfare were more voluntary, than necessary. There is a big difference.

  • torontothegreat

    How about this Wayne. I didn't make the choice to have children. You did. I want my money back!

    - Healthcare money you spent, give it back.
    - Education money you're spending, give it back.
    - Daycare subsidy money, give it back.
    - Tax breaks for having children, give it back.
    - etc, etc. I want it all back.

    There, now I have more money in my pocket to pay for cultural events. Oh, what's that? Did I just bankrupt you? Boo fucking hoo!

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    Y'all got trolled.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSE4TAXVGSJDLUE2ZBS545MI4 sal h

    “Shifts”? Is that some pinko, pro-union jibber-jabber?

    If you are on shift, then each shift is three hours long.

    So the answer is “no”.

    As in, “No, I have never heard of a job that features consecutive three-hour shifts”.

    Then again, I've never interned for right-wing talk-radio.

  • http://twitter.com/MarkJull Mark Jull

    I was thinking the same thing this afternoon, then I noticed that he started off with a bunch of Fordisms, right-wing one-liners, insults but he seems to be being more respectful… maybe he even learned something!

  • Eric S. Smith

    Let me guess: schools and playgrounds for your kids are “basic needs,” too, but homeless shelters would ideally be run by private charity. Why is it that your spending priorities, in particular, are so exactly aligned with the Proper Role of Government? And how is it that I, who support the public funding of homeless shelters even though I've never used one, am picking your pocket “to benefit only [myself],” while you, keen to have your hospital bills covered and residential street plowed, are a disinterested guardian of the public good?

  • istoronto

    That's ok. I never think of it as being trolled. It's more like being given the oppportunity to voice my opinion, regardless if it's based on a conversation with someone just pulling my leg. I rarely have time for this type of exchange. Today I did and I'm happy to say, I learned that Ford supporters for the most part, are blind, deaf lemmings.

  • Toronto_Dave

    Life begins at 65. No, wait, I meant death.

  • Toronto_Dave

    According to Wayne's theory, children are the conservatism-inducing “trigger”. For verification, I'll report back here in a few months and let you know whether I support Ford yet.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    And your writeoff of anything someone with a differing opinion than yours is typical of someone from the left. The “troll” moniker is also typical of dismissing someone who voices an alternate opinion. Sounds like were all a bunch of stereotypes.

    Admittedly, I began posting disrespectfully, but it seemed to be the theme of this webpage, what with the references to Ford being a “fat ass”.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Shifts as in “some of us work weekends and have days off during the week”. C'mon Sal!

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    No istoronto, I was on welfare because i was a lazy, do nothing, left wing thinking, “the world owes me teenager. Then i straightened up, went to college, took out OSAP, got a decent job, paid back all my debt, and started living like a responsible adult. My point in my honesty about my history with welfare is that it is a flawed system that is very easy to abuse. Its funny, during that time I was so angry that Mike Harris was pushing “workfare”, but now, years later, what a great idea that is!

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Ya, you completely missed my point. Read again.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    By the way, check the front of the Star right now, a recent poll has the Conservatives claiming a federal majority if they were to hold a spring election, thanks to increased support in Ontario. This isn't going to get any better for the posters here. Sheesh!

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Oooh, I see that stung, eh?

    Let's get the chronology straight first — you posted first, then I called Ford a fat ass.

    Then, let's clarify — suggesting that a bunch of people you don't know don't work for a living is cool, but pointing out BMI of an obese person is disrespectful?

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    With any luck, it'll be before the provincial election, so you can support Hudak too.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    What stung?

    Like I said, I started posting disrespectfully, based on the the theme of the page. The rest of the time this has actually been a fun exercise, its amazing how angry people get when you post something different around here.

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    I pay through the nose for daycare, and will continue to when my daughter starts school next year for aftercare, Canada has one of the worst subsidized day care programs in the world. And you know what? I'm ok with that, because YOU don't have kids.

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    Let's try again: suggesting that a bunch of people you don't know don't work for a living is cool, but pointing out BMI of an obese person is disrespectful?

  • http://piorkowski.ca qviri

    If you want children, you'll pay for it :)

  • http://twitter.com/wsnow11 Wayne Snow

    Ya, heard you the first time qviri. Your point is not lost, its heard. Did you read my admission about disrespectful posting?

  • http://twitter.com/georgebell George Bell

    http://www.toronto.ca/civic-en…

    It only takes 30 votes to remove the speaker…that's the solution right there…

  • http://twitter.com/MarkJull Mark Jull

    Hi Wayne,
    I think you meant to reply to Paul (who, by the way, is probably the best commenter on this website). But this time, to me at least, I think Paul's wrong. 'Trolls' are people who just post inflammatory statements with the sole purpose of riling people up – you have a different viewpoint and, though you started off rather 'troll-ish,' you stuck around, opened up, responded to people and realized you “began posting disrespectfully.” I think, and others already mentioned this, it's unhelpful to call people names (“fat fuck” etc.) – there are much more fundamental issues at stake. There's a deep division concerning how we should live and organize ourselves between Ford & co. and many of the people trying to make this city better. I hope that you continue to comment (respectfully!) and I hope there will be more meaningful debate.

  • Nick

    Nothing like increasing the federal deficit to get the voters onside! A very Conservative trope.

  • http://ronypony.blogspot.com/ Jennifer

    Doesn't seem to work. Just get a general Council video feed page.

  • HamutalDotan

    Scroll down – there are links to the last few council meetings. Just cick on the day you're interested in.

  • Nick

    True, Eric, but in the case of the Sheppard subway extension, there's no “penny-wise” part :(

    I saw the other day that Glenn De Baeremaeker estimated that the low flow toilet rebate program has saved the City $180 million (due to reduced loading on sewage treatment plants). On another blog, I saw someone rating about why they have to subsidize someone else's toilets. Well, because it's everyone's tax dollars that are used to treat our collective poop, and the less volume of it there is, the less it costs.

  • Eric S. Smith

    Well, because it's everyone's tax dollars that are used to treat our collective poop

    Oh, I'm pretty sure that they don't want to pay for sewers, either. Who needs Big Government when I can just take a crap on the neighbours' lawn?

  • nevilleross

    'Blind, deaf lemmings'? No, they're big neocon cocksuckers and mother fuckers with nothing in their heads but bullshit-exactly what Wayne The Neocon Loser Moron is. Too bad that faster than light space travel doesn't exist-I'd love to send Wayne and his fellow neocons to World X of System Y where they can live out their lives in peace away from the rest of us-let's see how they fare away from the comforts of Earth.

  • nevilleross

    Too bad the wasteful military spending we all pay for (sadly) doesn't include a draft, so that assholes like you get to experience what real sacrifice is like-they we'll see what 'fending for yourself' or any of the other neocon bullshit really means coming from your over-entitled white boy mouth.

  • nevilleross

    'Blind, deaf lemmings'? No, they're big neocon cocksuckers and mother fuckers with nothing in their heads but bullshit-exactly what Wayne The Neocon Loser Moron is. Too bad that faster than light space travel doesn't exist-I'd love to send Wayne and his fellow neocons to World X of System Y where they can live out their lives in peace away from the rest of us-let's see how they fare away from the comforts of Earth.

  • nevilleross

    Too bad the wasteful military spending we all pay for (sadly) doesn't include a draft, so that assholes like you get to experience what real sacrifice is like-they we'll see what 'fending for yourself' or any of the other neocon bullshit really means coming from your over-entitled white boy mouth.