Today Fri Sat
It is forcast to be Fog at 11:00 PM EDT on May 24, 2012
Fog
29°/18°
It is forcast to be Chance of Rain at 11:00 PM EDT on May 25, 2012
Chance of Rain
31°/18°
It is forcast to be Overcast at 11:00 PM EDT on May 26, 2012
Overcast
26°/15°

25 Comments

news

For Some TTC Riders, A Dufferin Slog

20101122ttc-gladstone-north.jpg
The abandoned transit shelter on the east side of Gladstone Avenue, on Saturday morning. Photo by Remi Carreiro/Torontoist.


Dufferin doesn’t jog anymore, and TTC buses that used to worm their way along Gladstone Avenue before continuing north or south on Dufferin now go straight through the brand new underpass. So why is there still a shelter on Gladstone, north of Queen, for a bus stop that doesn’t exist anymore? And—worse—why did it take several days for either the City or the TTC to let anyone at the stop know about it?


When the Dufferin Underpass opened on the afternoon of Thursday, November 18, the small change was a big deal for the 29 Dufferin bus route, often marked by overcrowded buses that arrived two or three at a time at Dufferin Station after long waits. “People told me tonight,” Mayor David Miller happily tweeted hours later, “that riders spontaneously broke into applause when the Dufferin Bus went under the new underpass!”
Less so that same afternoon, a block east.
By the time Andrew McConnachie got off the Queen streetcar to go buy groceries at Price Chopper, Gladstone had seen its very last 29 Dufferin bus. At the bus shelter on Gladstone’s east side, right beside the grocery store, McConnachie says he saw “half a dozen people waiting.” He bought dinner, and then, “when I came back out the crowd had doubled,” he says. “I ended up telling everyone what the situation was and everyone was pretty peeved.” Other than a newly missing TTC bus stop pillar, there was no indication that the stop had moved: inside the shelter and out, there were no signs, no posters, and no one from the TTC there to help.
A day later, on Friday, with the sun setting fast on a frigid November day, Mary-Lu Travassos waited at the shelter for twenty minutes before we spotted her and told her that the stop had moved. She doesn’t take the route too frequently—just a few times a month. Other than through the TTC’s website, there wasn’t any way for her to know that the stop was out of service; there was even a TTC map inside the shelter that showed the 29 Dufferin’s route as hopping over to Gladstone before continuing down Dufferin.
“They don’t care,” she said, resigned, as she walked up Gladstone and rounded the corner towards Dufferin to catch her bus.
For ten minutes, as we watched, people kept coming to the stop and waiting, until someone—either us, or other locals—told them the stop had moved. At night, the problem got worse. Far from looking like it was out of service, the shelter was lit up inside and out by two big, shining poster-sized ads, served by Astral Media, for Boom 97.3 and the Cavalcade of Lights.

20101122ttc-dufferin-north.jpg
The new northbound stop on Dufferin, just outside of the new Dufferin Underpass, on Saturday morning. Photo by Remi Carreiro/Torontoist.


When we emailed outgoing TTC Chair Adam Giambrone on Saturday afternoon, he told us that he would see to it that “temporary signage” was created that day, and “more permanent signage” appeared by Monday or Tuesday.
By Saturday night, more than forty-eight hours after the Dufferin bus vanished from Gladstone, someone had made their own temporary signage, and slapped it to the wall of the shelter on a plain 8 1/2″ by 11″ sheet of printer paper: “Dufferin Bus STOP on Dufferin!!! Not here…” Someone else scribbled “THANKS,” and someone else, tinier, “FUCK THE TTC.”
Across the street, at the former southbound stop for the 29 Dufferin, it wasn’t much better. There, an official, generic TTC notice (“This stop is temporarily not in use”) was haphazardly taped to construction hoarding, and the field where the person putting it up was supposed to write the new location of the stop (“BOARD BUS AT:”) was blank; instead, someone had written overtop of that entire sign something that looked like it said “USE New ROADWAY remove to New ROAD WAY.”
“It is primarily the continued presence of a shelter that causes the confusion,” Scott Haskill, a senior planner with the TTC, told Torontoist about the stop on the east side of the street. “With any route change, customer confusion issues can happen. Notices get ripped down, soggy, etc. Even when perfectly posted”—which Haskill acknowledged wasn’t the case here—”some customers will still miss them.”
What happened on Gladstone is that the City (responsible for the shelter) and the TTC (responsible for communicating with riders) failed, together; the City didn’t remove a bus shelter when the buses stopped showing up there, and the TTC didn’t do nearly enough to tell customers about it.
gladstonettcstop20101123-3.jpg

gladstonettcstop20101123-5.jpg
The bus shelter, with new signs from the TTC, as of Tuesday morning. Photos by Harry Choi/Torontoist.


Finally, as of Monday night, the transit shelter—ads still bright—was tiled with a half-dozen 8 1/2″ by 11″ hastily made TTC flyers. Some read “BOARD BUSES ONE BLOCK WEST AT DUFFERIN STREET” with “STOP NOT IN SERVICE” inside a red box, inside a circle; another explains the change in more detail. An official “This stop is temporarily not in use” sign was wrapped around the pole just south of the shelter, with the location of the new stop printed clearly on it, and more of those makeshift flyers wrapped below.
Carla Basso, a Marketing Director with the TTC—it’s the TTC’s Marketing and Customer Service department that’s tasked with things like signs—told Torontoist that “it is unfortunate that the information was not posted earlier.” Basso added that she expects “some customer confusion [will] continue to exist while the City of Toronto shelters are still in place.” She and Scott Haskill both said that TTC staff had been dispatched to the location to tell people about the change.
Peter Berardi, the project lead with the City’s Public Realm Street Furniture Management program, explained that moving or removing the shelter will need to go through Astral, who “take direction from us,” but whose contractors are the ones who actually move or remove the shelter.
As for how long it’d take to remove? “I can’t say,” Berardi told us on Monday. “A week, or two? We’ll try to get to it as fast as possible.” (The next day, Berardi called back to say the shelter would be removed “immediately.”)
Usually this doesn’t happen, Berardi said; the shelter should’ve been gone the same day as the Jog. “It may have just fallen through the cracks.”

Comments

  • http://undefined Jimbo

    Move this shelter to Kingston Rd and Woodbine, where they recently took away a perfectly good shelter and replaced it with a shiny new glass wall with a half roof and no walls. Sheesh.

  • little_potato

    This should be no surprise to lots of TTC users. As a general rule, nothing is ever posted or announced anywhere in case of any major change. Even when it is a subway station, where they can use the PA system.
    At least they posted something, eventually. Not so lucky for people who, say, need to go down Don Mills or Kennedy from Steeles. These routes go around the block and the southbound stop is almost never used, but there is zero signage telling people to cross the road even though the stops have been there for years.
    They just don’t care. This is a systemic problem of mentality.

  • http://undefined Jonathan

    This is so typical TTC, and it’s such an uneccessary, self-inflicted wound.
    Why does the TTC care so little about communicating with its passengers and letting them know stuff like this? Remember the yonge/bloor subway passenger redirection thing from last year? People hated it because they were being herded around like animals, with little or no effort being made to explain why what they were trying to do would be a big win for everyone if it worked. From the seemingly random, last-second announcements of short turns with no effort at explanation or even reassurances that the reason they’re doing it is because there’s another vehicle right behind them, to the complete fiasco surrounding the fares at the start of the year, the organization as a whole just doesn’t give a crap about communications.
    I guess if your short-term problem is too high, rather than too low, ridership, then pissing passengers off doesn’t seem like a problem. But year by year, the TTC fritters away that much more goodwill in the city.

  • http://undefined avp77

    Sounds like the typical abysmal TTC customer service, right down to apparently not even understanding the issue and talking about taking down the shelter, when all that is needed is some clear signage explaining the new route.
    In fact, removing the shelter entirely overnight would leave people clueless to the new situation – how about some cheap bright orange fencing around it, showing it’s closed, and then a few big laminated posters indicating where the people should go to catch the bus (in the photo, I also only noticed english words on the signs, when a simple colour map with arrows would be much more effective and universal).

  • http://undefined Vincent Clement

    Visited Chicago for the first time two weeks ago. Amazing public transit system.
    Clear audio announcements on the L/subways and buses. On the L, the announcements would tell you what stop was next and what side to get off on. If there was a delay, an announcement would be played indicating the reason for the delay (track maintenance, waiting for a train to clear in the Loop, etc).
    The bus announcements tell you what the next stop and each bus had an LED display inside the bus indicating the name of the next stop.
    Most bus stops in the downtown had the name and number of all buses that stopped there. For those stops that had one or two bus routes, a map of the route was also provided.
    My wife and I purchased a 7-day transit pass at the Midway subway station via a machine using our credit cards. Quick. Simple. The CTA pushes passes of varying day lengths or farecards with a reloadable dollar value. There are no tokens or tickets. It’s either cash, pass or farecard.

  • http://undefined Dan

    Would it really have been so difficult to have the drivers for the week (or two) before the opening of the new underpass to just announce that the Gladstone stops would be out of service come November 18 whenever they were arriving/departing the stop.
    It wouldn’t have gotten the word out to everyone but it would have certainly spread the word quite well.
    Oh, wait, I know why they didn’t have the drivers do that. Not in the Union contract. Probably would have needed to renegotiate and increase their salary or pay overtime.

  • http://undefined friend68

    I think the real problem this illustrates is that not enough people who ride the Dufferin bus read Torontoist.

  • thelemur

    Wow, it’s not like the TTC, the City and Astral had months to prepare for this, you know.
    It just goes to show that the TTC’s real problem is withholding information, both from its employees and from its riders. Even at Dufferin station itself, there are still – still! – posters indicating that the Dufferin bus will not be running its usual route through Peel and Gladstone due to construction … on September 25-27.

  • http://undefined bordss

    Carla Basso, a Marketing Director with the TTC—it’s the TTC’s Marketing and Customer Service department that’s tasked with things like signs—told Torontoist that “it is unfortunate that the information was not posted earlier.”

    What does unfortunate mean? Did the dice come up snake eyes when they rolled to see whether to put the signs up or not?
    How about it is unacceptable that the information was not posted earlier?

  • http://undefined rek

    The stop should have had a sign announcing its impending obsolescence (with a map showing the new location) for at least a month prior to the change, and the online trip planner and other forms of route information should have noted it. This oversight isn’t the end of the world it’s being made out to be, but sadly it’s typical of the TTC’s approach to customer service.

  • http://undefined thelemur

    You’re right, it’s not a catastrophe. But surely the TTC was involved in the process leading up to the creation of the underpass, including the rerouting of the Dufferin bus, and some initiative to communicate the change and its effect on the neighbourhood should have originated from that process. Instead, it looks like the TTC’s usual pattern of ‘You don’t really need to know that and our employees don’t really need to be told to tell you anything’.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    Of the things you listed, the TTC lacks the following:
    - clear delay announcements
    - what side to get off on (not a big deal IMNSHO)
    - signage on “most” bus stops
    - weekly TTC-only pass (have to spring for a GTA-wide weekly pass)
    That would make TTC almost-amazing?

  • http://undefined rek

    That implies a bit more intent than is necessarily the case. I think it was an oversight, typical of much of the customer-facing side of the TTC. It shouldn’t happen, and we’re right to be disappointed, but we shouldn’t be surprised.

  • http://undefined friend68

    This may also be crazy, but why didn’t the Torontoist columnist who kept going back to check how many people were there tape up a sign out of the goodness of his or her heart?

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    You mean me? I kept thinking things would be fixed, or better, by the next time I checked. On Saturday, I started getting phonecalls and emails in to people who I knew would speed up the process of making that happen the way it was supposed to; by the time I checked again that night, there was that handmade sign, and the next time I checked, the TTC had basically tiled the shelter with signs. So I let it be.

  • thelemur

    That would make the TTC basically competent in a way that we are entitled to reasonably expect.
    Better delay announcements are needed, definitely. But I’m not sure what you’re saying about passes. The TTC already offers a pass valid on the entire system for a week, but it is limited to a given calendar week, not one week from the date of purchase. What is the GTA-wide pass and what makes it more convenient for you?

  • thelemur

    I’m sure they didn’t intend this to be the outcome, but they probably did need to think it through a bit more than they did.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    I actually intended my comment as a TTC booster, because it really isn’t missing that much. (Though it does desperately need better delay and in general all non-prerecorded announcements.) I hadn’t realized the TTC had its own weekly pass too. My bad entirely.

  • http://undefined Edmund

    The GTA pass lets you ride the TTC, Mississauga Transit, Brampton Transit, and YRT. It’s designed for commuters whose trips take them across transit boundaries. Of course, adding three other transit agencies on top of the TTC is a little redundant, and looks to have been done for administrative convenience. The vast majority of GTA pass users (I’d guess) use them to travel from just one region into Toronto (or vice-versa). Anyone who bounces around all four regions must love hanging around bus malls.
    Much better if they gave transit users options (TTC + whichever extras they wanted, not the ones they don’t).

  • http://undefined Vincent Clement

    The “what side to get off on” announcement was useful in Chicago. The trains are narrower and usually consist of fewer cars (four appeared to be the average) during non-rush hours, so the trains are more packed than in Toronto. Knowing which side to get off on meant that you could plan your ‘walk’ to the door better.

  • http://undefined Vincent Clement

    I never stated that the TTC didn’t have a weekly pass. I was stating that Chicago had a better range of options.
    All passes have a magnetic stripe with a good till date printed on them when first used. None of this “weekly pass” crap the TTC uses. A seven-day pays is exactly that. Seven days from the day you first use it.

  • http://eddrass.com/links.htm Ed Drass

    The shelter is not key — the stops should have, at very least, been clearly marked as active or not. It appears to be a simple, but complete failure to communicate. And in a year that has been one big wake-up call on TTC customer service.
    After hearing about the lack of preparedness on Friday I notified Brad Ross and Adam Giambrone via tweet and email respectively. Maybe I was too respectful and not explicit enough about the bad stop designations. Brad did tweet that ttc.ca would be updated, but obviously that wasn’t the only problem.
    Not my style, but was it necessary to spell — or yell — it out? Would all caps and exclamation marks have prompted a proper, rapid response to the lapse? Cussing? Insults?

  • http://undefined dowlingm

    You’re so picky Jimbo. Over on Coxwell south of East General Hospital, we all wrote to Astral and complained that our old and dingy but functional shelter had no advertising and could they please put up a wall with a half roof, and who cares that the wall is parallel to, not perpendicular to, the North wind. We are all SOOOOO happy now, and once it starts to snow we’re going to be even happier, as are the people already on board who will be pressed against our snow encrusted coats.

  • thelemur

    The odd thing is that requests like yours and the one about the disused Gladstone shelter require users to prod the TTC and do the thinking for them, whereas someone somewhere is very prompt in fulfilling special requests for advertising treatments like the fake shipping crate for Doctors Without Borders that is on top of the shelter at King & Dufferin, not too far away.

  • thelemur

    The ‘what side’ announcements are also a feature of the Washington Metro, since there is more variation between central and side platforms there than on the TTC and it is helpful for the same reason you mentioned.