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Evolutionary Psychology

20090930dawkins.jpg
Photo by Andrew Louis/Torontoist.


Richard Dawkins came to town this week, and boy were his fans excited. Dawkins, if you are unfamiliar with his work, is an evolutionary biologist and science writer by turns renowned and reviled for his sustained arguments against creationism and against the existence of God. His latest book, The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution, takes on the task of explaining, in terms accessible to the layperson, just what makes evolution such a compelling explanation of biological diversity.
So far so good. Translating the accumulated wisdom of 150 years (Darwin’s The Origin of Species was first published in 1859) into non-technical language suitable for the average reader is noble work and the kind of labour that academics don’t undertake nearly often enough. Moreover, in the case of evolutionary theory the need is particularly acute, for it is something that we all encounter (either by its presence or very conspicuous absence) in school, and it is also the subject of some controversy. Given the number of jurisdictions that have banned or considered banning its teaching, we are in dire need of someone who can clearly lay out the case for evolution and thereby explain why its presence in the curriculum ought to go unchallenged.
No good, however, can come of insulting creationists as brashly as Dawkins does along the way, nor did any come from the self-congratulatory tone with which he spoke, and with which his audience cheered, at the Isabel Bader Theatre during his appearance on Tuesday night.


In a textbook case of preaching to the choir, Dawkins gleefully skewered the 44% of Americans who believe that “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so,” and his listeners laughed right along with him. We understand the frustration in the face of such a stubbornly held belief, one that we too think is fundamentally misguided and whose consequences are damaging. We share the frustration. But we do not think we will win any converts by repeatedly insulting the intelligence of those on the other side.
Our objection is neither to Dawkins’s science nor to his goals, but to the rhetorical stance that he has adopted in pursing them. If the problem, in most cases, is that people have not been properly educated about the evidence for evolution or to the principles of science and of reason that show that evidence to be compelling—that is, if Dawkins thinks his book serves a real purpose in its attempt to relieve a certain kind of ignorance—then calling those people names is hardly the best way to get them to change their minds. The very last question of the evening dealt with a recent attempt to repackage atheists under the more positive-sounding name “Brights.” Dawkins, a supporter of this movement, told the audience that the term never took off because it implied that non-believers were smarter than believers. “So?” he asked rhetorically, with an arched eyebrow and a knowing smile.
True teaching this was not.

Comments

  • http://undefined wesshepherd

    It’s hard to make someone willingly change their way of thinking while also kicking them in the crotch.

  • http://undefined Will.Jackson

    I was at the Dawkins talk and have to take issue with this article, though of course I am an arrogant atheist who thinks people of faith are braying morons, so take from this what you will. However as I recall most of Prof. Dawkins more scathing commentary was directed against the organisations and individuals who perpetuate ignorant myths about the origins of the universe and life, and not the average ‘believers’. And after all what’s so wrong with telling people that their beliefs are demonstrably wrong – they tell us we are going to hell.

  • Mark Ostler

    The most fervent creationists, the ones that fight tooth and nail to get creationism taught in schools, are the ones that need convincing but are also often the ones that refuse to listen to arguments for evolution. It must be tough to enter into constructive dialogue with such staunch partisans. Maybe Dawkins is just venting some frustration at this point. Sounds like the crowd didn’t mind though.

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    I’d agree that calling people stupid is a lousy way to win hearts and minds. That said, appealing to reason and logic with a committed creationist is about as useful as explaining calculus to a cocker spaniel.
    The point is not that creationists aren’t aware of critical thinking or the scientific method, but that they simply have no interest in anything that doesn’t conform with their beliefs. Facts that don’t fit into the preexisting paradigm will be attributed to God working in his mysterious ways, or in the more bellicose religions (because it’s always religion), to Satan working to tempt the faithful.
    My point is that jollying lunatics along doesn’t work, so if it gives Dawkins pleasure to kick them in the balls, more power to him – I think it’s time for a more muscular secular humanism anyway. The important thing is to keep creationism out of the schools so we don’t produce more generations of ignorati.

  • http://undefined panko

    Call spade a spade. Dawkins exepmlifies the reason versus belief conflict and if someone believes the Earth is 6000 years old, against all reason and evidence, they’re stupid. People once believed the Earth was flat, or resting on turtles – if you came across these opinion today, you’d call them stupid, too and you’d be right to do so.

  • http://undefined ked

    Evangelical atheists are as annoying and loathsome as evangelical anything else

  • http://undefined Will.Jackson

    While being possessed of bland and intellectually lazy relativism masquerading as synasism is good for others – I’m fing with being annoying and loathsome, and not wrong.

  • rek

    Creationists should be mocked.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    Torontoist once again eloquently and precisely captures my beliefs.
    To paraphrase some of you, “The more fervent creationists won’t be swayed by rational argument. Therefore it is effective and useful to insult them, along with all other believers.”
    There’s no logic in this. Intelligent people invariably run into existential quandaries. As those raised in poverty have trouble escaping it, those raised in organized religion are similarly entrapped. Are the poor stupid because they haven’t become rich? To suggest that all 3.8 billion followers of the Abrahamic religions were born or educated stupid displays a profound lack of empathy (or, if you will, emotional intelligence).

  • http://undefined JHGRedekop

    I don’t think Dawkins is interested in making converts. He’s much more interested in getting atheists and freethinkers out of the closet.
    Furthermore, Dawkins has never claimed that religious people are stupid, and has argued just the opposite many times — and has worked with religious people and organizations to promote science and reason.

  • http://www.amoresplendidlife.com Richard Whittall

    If the target is hard-core, anti education fundamentalist creationists actively preventing the teaching of science in schools, than yes, not only should they be mocked but rigorously opposed anytime they deign to tell others in a democracy what they can and cannot learn about the world.
    But your average, rational Anglican church goer? Should we throw bricks at St. James Cathedral? Are the many professors, doctors and lawyers who attend services on a weekly basis the baying morons atheists seem to think?
    And for those who think Dawkins is a respected scientist, I will quote my philosophy of mind prof: evolutionary biology is bad science, nothing more than reverse engineering the biological world. Imaginative, yes, explanatory, certainly, demonstrably verifiable? Absolutely not. I’m no believer, but theorizing that a “religious impulse” was “useful” (an anthropomorphic adjective if there ever was one) by providing some sort of societal cohesion in our proto-human phase is about as scientific as describing the size of God’s balls.

  • http://undefined Gauldar

    He’s a great speaker. I haven’t been disappointed with any of his seminars, and there are some great videos out there of them too. I don’t see anything wrong with militant Atheists calling Creationists stupid, where militant Creationists would gladly consider Atheists or any other religion misguided when preaching their own beliefs. When push comes to shove, all’s fair is fair.

  • http://undefined Will.Jackson

    Responding to Paul Kishimoto:
    Unlike money reason and critical thinking are free to almost all in the secular west. A more apt analogy would be atheists mocking theists is like the sighted mocking people with their perfectly functional eyes voluntarily closed. This may be unsympathetic, surly, but what will sympathy get us, other than limp and useless compromise over objective facts. It’s like saying it’s okay to be a holocaust denier if you were home schooled by Nazis, it’s not okay its wrong. Moving on. This argument is unbelievably trite, it’s embarrassing that it endures, playing nice, and being empathetic grants too much legitimacy irrational faith.

  • http://www.guesswork.ca Patrick Metzger

    There’s a big difference between religious people who believe in the unproven and creationists who believe in the disproven.

  • http://undefined Bebop Loco

    I sympathize with the rationalist point of view, and believe that science is the best tool we have to understand how our universe has developed over billions of years. But it doesn’t tell the whole story i.e. how (or why) it got started. That’s where mystery enters the picture, and that’s what religions try to explain. There’s no contradiction in relying on both science and religion to come to terms with the cosmos and our existence in it. A reasonably flexible mind can accommodate both, so long as it’s done with a healthy dose of doubt and scepticism.
    As for the tone of Dawkins’ remarks, militant and intemperate language never helps any situation, even if it feels good to unleash it. These days, what passes for discourse is just people yelling at and insulting each other – just check out your nearest blog, or talk radio show. That doesn’t help us understand each other, hmmmm?

  • http://undefined Ben

    I think that OK is a lot more anthropomorphic than ‘useful’. The O is the head, the stem is the arms, and the chevron is the legs.
    Criticizing based on your choice of adjective is a ridiculous argument. Criticize the theory, not the language you are using to describe it.
    Relying on your profs argument is an appeal to authority. It’s also an authority I would question, considering that a Philosphy of Mind professor is likely not a scientist. There are counter-examples of course.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    “The term Godwin’s law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to “lose” the debate.”

  • http://undefined escape

    I’m uncomfortable with everyone lumping together religious people and creationists. The two groups do overlap, but I was raised in religion and was taught that the Bible is not literal and that science and faith are not completely incompatible.
    Believing in creationism and taking the Bible literally are lazy ways of being religious.

  • http://undefined Machinations

    Internet checkmate!

  • http://undefined Joseph

    panko
    wrote:
    “… if someone believes the Earth is 6000 years old … they’re stupid.”
    However,
    Evidence from Cutting- Edge Science tells us:
    ” Many worldwide natural processes indicate an age for the earth of 10,000 years or less. These include population kinetics, influx of radiocarbon into earth’s atmosphere, absence of meteorites from the geologic column, and decay of earth’s magnetic field.”
    Partial quote from:
    What Does The Catholic Church Teach about Origins?
    What Does Cutting- Edge Science Teach about Origins?
    http://www.kolbecenter.org/church_teaches.htm

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    “The Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation (United States)[7] was founded in 2000.[8]”
    Partial quote from:
    List of Catholic creationist organizations
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_creationist_organisations
    The difference? The Kolbe page contains no citations.

  • http://undefined Andrew

    Creationism is nonsense. But the case for the existence of God is far less settled.
    Ask yourself this: do you believe that there exists intelligent life beyond Earth? Because there is exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of ET as there is for the existence of God, which is to say, absolutely none.
    I wonder how Richard Dawkins would answer that question.

  • http://undefined panko

    Ugh, you got me. We were wrong and you are right. Your evidence is strong and convincing, and more so because you capitalize Important Words. I’d adopt your beliefs but, gosh, darn it, I just signed up – and paid cash – for Scientology.

  • http://undefined Jordan

    The truth is, we know nothing.
    We can clobber evidence together for one theory or another, one religion or another, one evolutionary theory or another. But in any case, nothing will ever be concluded, because we weren’t there. Time and history have always been incongruent with one another, and it’s unreasonable for anyone to suggest there’s one truth out there to be had. No one really knows anything about anything. Take medical science – there’s a lot that’s known that can help people – but a good majority of how the body works is a mystery. Ask a doctor how the brain stores memories and I’m sure you’ll get a few different answers. Ask a physicist how gravity works – and I’m sure you’ll get another few answers. And in a few years time, both answers will likely have changed again. There will always be more questions than answers – so why not get outside, and enjoy the sunshine.

  • http://undefined Rick @ The Pits

    Since when was suffering fools gladly required ? Dawkins simply won’t let Creationists and their fairy tale ilk off easy. In his estimation and mine religion has outlived it’s usefulness. Far too much blood has been shed for gods. Stop ignoring all the harm religion has done and wake up to the wonder of this planet and this life we all have.

  • http://www.bitpicture.com Marc Lostracco

    We don’t “know nothing.” For example, we know that evolution is a reality, which has not only been scientifically theorized BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, but also been observed in action. We also know, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that the earth is way, way, way older than ten-thousand years.
    The culture of intentional anti-intellectualism deserves to be torn to shreds at every opportunity.

  • http://undefined Jordan

    Of course there are doubts, there are always doubts. The point is – there is not one truth, every answer leads to more questions.
    The real trouble always appears when someone ‘knows’ something – and attempts to prove it to someone else, in your words ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt’. It’s that very stubbornness – of not allowing other people’s view to exist, that is dangerous.
    As for teaching evolution – it does have its faults, yesterday it was thought that humans descended from chimps – today it’s thought that chimps descended from a more-human like species. If I would have said that to an evolutionist yesterday, I could have appeared a little daft, though today I’m all good. The point is, as I’ll say again, is that no one really knows anything. Ask one evolutionist where life begins – and I’m sure they’ll come up empty handed. Ask one creationist where dinosaurs come from – and I’m sure they’ll also come up with empty hands. Both are to some degree, stories. Stories we like to believe in, because they’re comforting to our extreme ignorance about the world around us.
    In any case, both can also work hand in hand – just because animals can evolve, doesn’t mean the stories religions tell are false. Maybe god zapped in adam and eve after he played with some chimps for a while. The details in religion are vague, because they’re unnecessary – religion is about people coming together and living to a moral standard. I wary at the thought of dismissing religion so easily. Christianity is the foundation of many of the laws and views of western civilization – many of the views we pride ourself on as Canadians are routed in the christian tradition. And if anyone, a evolutionist should know that animals evolve on a basis of elimination of the weak – the wars you blame on religion, easily have a strong foundation in darwinian evolution as well.
    The point is, as much as we can prove evolution, or prove creationism – a million other external factors could have come into play, that we have no idea about whatsoever. Magical polar bears, Sand Monsters, Polka-roo, Jesus, or aliens – any one blip and the whole story goes ka-put.
    If people would come to accept, that we can’t know everything – we might be able to stop bickering on both sides of this rather dodgy fence.

  • http://undefined Bebop Loco

    You’re right, Rick. Too much blood has been shed for gods, such as Osiris and Jupiter and God and Allah. And nationalism and capitalism and communism and life, liberty, and the pursuit of whatever the hell we feel like.
    Gods come in many sizes and shapes. Whether “religious” or “rational”, an unexamined belief calcifies into dogma, doctrine, and ideology. When we follow them without question, they can lead us to commit the most horrendous crimes.
    The mass murders of the last century had nothing to do with Religion. Their justification arose from the perverted ideals of nationalism, progress, and racial politics. And of course they took the fruits of our vaunted science to kill far more efficiently and on a vaster scale than anything that ever came out of the Vatican. They could be the end of us yet.
    Don’t get me wrong – I’m no religious fundamentalist. I just get a little tired of all you “free-thinking” athiests who point at religion as the greatest destructive force of the past 10,000 years. “Science” and “rationalism” have a lot of blood on their hands too.

  • http://undefined Andrew

    The most murderous organizations of the 20th century — and arguably of all time — were secular. Just sayin’.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    The mass murders of the last century pale in comparison to the mass murders of religion since the birth of humankind.
    “The mass murders of the last century had nothing to do with Religion.”
    I’ll make sure to let my Rabbi, my Somalian family and my native fams that grew up in residential schools know this :P
    Galileo that murdering bastard!

  • http://www.bitpicture.com Marc Lostracco

    Proving evolution—and it has been proven—may lead to new questions, but those new questions absolutely, unequivocally do NOT even remotely disprove the theory. And when I say “theory,” I mean it in the scientific sense, and not how the Creationists like to hijack the word (they actually refer to a hypothesis of evolution, which it is not). Yes, evolution has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and that’s not being stubborn; it’s being factual.
    Scientists reject most theories of Creationism because it isn’t science, and these methods wouldn’t even be entertained for a nanosecond if they were employed elsewhere in scientific theory.
    What’s even more ridiculous: I think that evolution is even a stronger thing to stand behind when someone is attempting to prove the existence of God. Religious concepts and science can be simpatico. I don’t get why many view it as incompatible to their faith, especially when they don’t take other things the Bible says literally, like, oh, say, executing a woman who is found not to be a virgin when she is married off as property (Deut. 23:22).
    Your point about teaching evolution is also flawed. First of all, we have known for a long, long time that humans and chimpanzees shared a common ancestor; not that we turned into humans from monkeys, or that, as you say, chimps descended from a human-like species. They didn’t. We followed the same path and then branched off, and not only that, but along the line, multiple hominid species that branched off didn’t make it.
    If there is anything that “has its faults” in teaching, it’s the teaching of Creationism, which has absolutely zero place in a science classroom, primarily because IT ISN’T SCIENCE.
    And I will, once again, counter your argument that “we don’t really know anything,” because we know a shitload, and when you’re comparing evolution to Creationism, there is no comparison. And you’re right that we are constantly learning and revising our knowledge, but with every advance in science and knowledge, it’s yet another nail in the coffin of Creationism hypotheses.
    Anyone institutionalizing a curriculum that teaches kids that the earth is less than ten-thousand years old, that we appeared instantaneously in our current form, and that we walked the earth with dinosaurs is doing incredible harm not only to future generations, but it’s promoting a culture of willful anti-intellectualism, and that’s not only unconscionable, but may I suggest that it’s “un-Christian” too.
    As for Christianity being the foundation of many historical elements of Western civilization, that is also true, but so is paganism and superstition.
    We can’t know everything, but what we know—and can scientifically prove beyond a shadow of a doubt—is that evolution is a reality, and Creationism is bunk science.

  • http://undefined Gauldar

    Could it be possible that religion is not the reason of the act, it’s just simply the excuse? Motivation for heinous acts it usually rationalised by whatever the individual can internally connect with that act. Do psychopaths actually have any reason for doing what they do other then the fact that they are psychopaths, no matter what they believe? People being killed over comic strips, abortion doctors being murdered (last one in a church no less), and never ending wars fuelled by dogmatic early childhood education injected with hate. Is a god going to clean up this mess, or are we?

  • http://undefined Gauldar

    Yep, we’re still learning. If science knew everything… well, it would stop.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    The mass murders of the last century pale in comparison to the mass murders of religion since the birth of humankind.

    Next time, check your facts before spewing BS.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    I don’t see King David’s conquering of Israel on that ‘fact sheet’ (over 200k dead). Hrmmm what else is missing? I don’t even SEE a mention of the Crusades (500k to 1 million killed) on that page. Not to mention these are all ‘estimates’.
    Also read a bit more and you’ll realize a huge percentage of the ‘wars’ that you link to are religiously fueled. Only further proving my point.
    War isn’t the only ‘noted’ thing that kills people. Genocide, pillaging, conquering (usually based on religion). Also the the Spanish & British weren’t as diligent as the nazi’s and IBM. More natives were killed than the jewish holocaust (mostly for land, but let’s not forget it was JUSTIFIED in the name of God/Christianity, those SAVAGE HEATHENS!). Nobody actually KNOWS how many people died in many cases and in many cases, genocide, war and conquering aren’t even documented throughout history.
    Why you point to ‘natural disasters’ is beyond me…
    The “Estimated world population at various dates” is based on a faulty math algorithm (HUGE estimate). Doesn’t even dilute by continent. So unless you have a time machine it’s a stupid point/link.
    Your point is hugely flawed. Next time don’t be so lazy by running to Wikipedia for your ‘facts’. Give it some more thought. Most of the ‘facts’ on that page aren’t even substantiated (where’s the notes and references?)

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    speaking of spewing BS…

  • http://undefined Andrew

    At least he provided links to Wikipedia, which is more than you did. Love the use of scare quotes around ‘facts’ btw.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Hey the Holocaust never even happened!!!
    does that substantiate my point anymore?
    Why do I need to link to something like the crusades? Are you not aware of this? King David, okay perhaps, but look it up your damn self, someone break your fingers?

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    I’ve pointed out why the word ‘facts’ is under fire here. Hence the quotes.

  • http://undefined Andrew

    So you’re saying that the website “666ismoney.com” and Wikipedia have an equally valid claim to truth and accuracy?

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    What I’m saying is that underlining a point with hyperlinks to the internet is a not very bulletproof way of validating a claim. Wikipedia has it’s problems, even the founder of Wikipedia realizes this.
    From a technical standpoint, I can write any page on Wikipedia to validate a claim, whereas I can’t on 666ismoney.
    More importantly, I also pointed out the flaws in the Wikipedia links posted.

  • http://undefined Andrew

    No, this is exactly the point. You pointed out those flaws without explaining where you were getting the alternate numbers. You could be getting your numbers from a reliable source, or not. How would I know?
    Taking your advice, I did a google search for “crusades death toll”. As I expected, the exact numbers are (a) disputed, and (b) controversial for a variety of contemporary political reasons. So dropping a number in conversation without knowing where it comes from is unhelpful. (Also, the consensus estimates seem to be between 1 and 5 million, so whatever source you’re using seems to be wrong.)

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    You know, “I don’t know” is a valid answer.

  • http://paul.kishimoto.name Paul Kishimoto

    Suppose there were enough, hitherto unknown events as deadly as the conquest of Israel and Crusades combined (generously 200,000 + 1,000,000 = 1,200,000 total, by your uncited numbers) to outweigh the WWI/II body count (conservatively 55,000,000) plus other 20th-century events.
    Dividing, 55/1.2 = 45.83. That is, forty-six instances of the Crusades happened and somehow escaped everyone’s notice. Really? To me that smells funny.
    Arguing that population pressures, resource greed and ethnic tension are actually ‘religious’ causes of conflict—or even that without a religious excuse these would not have led to murder and wars—would have earned you a failing grade in high school History. That isn’t because teachers are subverted by the Illuminati, but because it’s a terrible explanation.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Arguing that population pressures, resource greed and ethnic tension are actually ‘religious’ causes of conflict—or even that without a religious excuse these would not have led to murder and wars—would have earned you a failing grade in high school History.

    By your argument than, there is no such thing as death by religion.
    Unless of course you’re insinuating God happened to smite these people to death all by Himself.
    Teachers are not subverted by the Illuminati but you’d be foolish to think that History has any truth to it’s merit. Loosely factual? Yes.

    plus other 20th-century events.

    Which many have been fueled by religion. I always forget why my parents and I fled Somalia. Do you happen to know?

    In the last 30 years or so historians have generally distinguished between the ordinary prejudices of his (Hitler’s) background and time (Roman Catholic, Upper Austria, lower middle class, around 1880-1910) and the obsessive hatred that later became one of his hallmarks.

    So you can deduct 17 million (conservatively) from your death toll. For the holocaust was at least partially fueled by religion (if there was no religion, Jews would not exist the way we do today, therefor it’s safe to say we wouldn’t be targets like this).
    I’ve given 2 examples. I’m giving you the opportunity to think beyond these 2 events. 1.2 million can easily be multiplied.
    So I’ll see your 38 Million (with my own deduction) and raise you:

    In American Holocaust, Stannard estimates the total cost of the near-extermination of the American Indians as 100,000,000.

    Which you conveniently left out of the equation whilst doing the math.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    between 1 and 5 million

    Which is why I defaulted to the lower number :P If I was prying my point, would I not use the latter number?
    I think most sane people can at least imagine that the Crusades killed “at least” the former number.

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    Reminder! There is a little red “reply” link below every comment. Click it to reply to what comment you want to reply to. How can I tell which ones of you are Nazis otherwise?

  • http://undefined panko

    If you want to play math you should view the deaths not in absolute terms but as percentage of the world population at the time they occurred. Otherwise you’re going to give more weight to recent events when the planet was much more populous than before. Have fun.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    The ones you disagree with are Nazis.

  • http://undefined rek

    …more recent research in the year 2005 indicates that the non-religious group has risen significantly. Phil Zuckerman, an Associate Professor of Sociology at Pitzer College writes of several academic sources who have in recent years placed atheism rates in Canada between 19% and 30%.”
    I find those numbers reassuring.