Today Sat Sun
It is forcast to be Mostly Cloudy at 10:00 PM EST on February 10, 2012
Mostly Cloudy
4°/-8°
It is forcast to be Chance of Snow at 10:00 PM EST on February 11, 2012
Chance of Snow
-2°/-3°
It is forcast to be Chance of Snow at 10:00 PM EST on February 12, 2012
Chance of Snow
2°/-5°

35 Comments

news

Signs of Anger

20090825signsofanger1.jpg
Dario Saleki isn’t happy. In late May, he applied for a Boulevard Café Licence (the city’s fancy term for a patio permit) for his new Italian restaurant, La Veranda Osteria, which is located on the northwest corner of Bloor Street West and Royal York Road. It’s August now, and he’s still waiting for his permit. In the meantime, his empty patio is costing him business. Saleki blames the strike (which has created some licensing problems for restaurateurs) and the city’s bureaucracy for his woes, and in a pseudo–grass roots effort has put up several colourful signs in his windows urging Torontonians to complain to the city on his behalf.


20090825signsofanger2.jpg
Here’s what one sign reads:

WHERE IS OUR PATIO LICENCE?
We have been waiting since May 21.
Please, please, please help us by calling the CITY and telling them how much we want it!!! This is CANADA! (not a third world country!)

“The customers, they come everyday and ask, when?” Saleki told Torontoist. “It’s not like this patio is dangerous or blocking someone; it’s away from everything. It should be easy for them [the city] to do it, but they don’t want to do it…I’m hoping to have it done by the Taste of the Kingsway, in the second week of September, at least.” But Saleki suspects that the city will probably approve his patio just “as soon the first cold weather comes in.” We sympathize with Saleki, as the city’s bureaucracy can be frustrating, but equating Canada with a third-world country just because you can’t get a patio licence is simply ridiculous.
20090825signsofanger3.jpg To get the other side of the story we talked to Curtis Sealock, district manager of municipal licensing and standards for Etobicoke-York, and he told us that La Veranda’s problems have nothing to do with the strike and everything to do with the owner’s timing and poor planning. “In this particular case, the drawings provided were inadequate. The owner was told that, as was the gentleman that was representing the owner. That delayed the process.”
Getting a patio permit is a complex process. In addition to forms and inspections, every application has to be approved by a community council. “There is no council meeting in the summer months, so I can’t take anything to council,” explained Sealock. “If you bring your plans in in late June, there’s no council in July or August, so you can’t go forward…I phoned the owner as late as two days ago, and I’m still waiting for plans, because of the canopy which is up there, which is an encroachment, which I brought to their attention…I’ve asked for proper sets of plans to go forward, and I haven’t been given that.”
La Veranda’s garden patio looks like it’ll make a great addition to an otherwise dreary intersection, but if Saleki wants it, he’s going to have to play by the city’s rules, even if they are overly abstruse.
All photos by Stephen Michalowicz/Torontoist.

Filed under: , , , , ,

Report error Send a tip

Comments

  • http://undefined goodbyecity

    ugh, what a tool! reading this article was incredibly frustrating… what does a patio license have to do with being in a third world country? i find that offensive. and why does he think his customers would call the city on his behalf? it’s not their problem, they can go somehwere else that has a patio if that’s what they want. i like how the guy from the city sells him out, saying that it’s his own fault.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    In the meantime, his empty patio is costing him business.

    This is false. From a business perspective you can’t put a cost on ‘possible’ business, only a projection. Therefore it’s impossible to say he’s losing money or has a false ‘cost of business’ associated with the patio. He’s simply not making “more” money. Either way it could totally backfire and the plans themselves could be a money loser. Courts won’t recognize that as an argument, neither should we, as the people.

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    “Help us complain” is an unusually candid way to frame the issue.

  • http://undefined cprincipe

    “Poor planning on your part (the restaurant owner) doesn’t constitute an emergency on our part (the city).”
    You applied for a permit at the end of May for a summer patio license and you’re ticked at the city? What an idiot. Don’t patronize this place, he’s wasting the tax dollars of the city by encouraging a call-in protest.

  • http://undefined corky

    “La Veranda’s…going to have to play by the city’s rules, even if they are overly abstruse.”
    Ummm, excuse me? Overly abstruse? Your article doesn’t provide any evidence that the city’s process is “overly” obscure. The licencing officer you spoke to made the requirements clear. It’s the fault of the owner of the restaurant and not the city.
    To the author: please take your personal agendas elsewhere.

  • http://undefined David Toronto

    Judging by the window sign, he’s both begging and goading the public.
    What successful businessman resorts to those elements?
    Maybe he’ll have a license by next spring. He should have foreseen the length these things take. If he
    can’t foresee that, then where’s his business sense?
    I wonder what the place is like. Maybe someone will give
    it a review and find out how well it’s run as a restaurant.

  • http://piorkowski.ca/ qviri

    Your </blockquote> tag is misformed and causing formatting snafus.

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    …should be fine now!

  • http://undefined Lu Galasso

    I can see why the restaurant owner is frustrated because but I can see where it is his own fault as well. Everyone knows the government slacks, especially in the summer months (no council meetings in the summer months, what are they? high school students?)
    Lu Galasso

  • http://undefined Stephanie

    No *community* council meeting, it says. Given the need for quotas, putting together those meetings in summer could well be a tough go.

  • http://undefined David Toronto

    I believe that Stephanie means the word quorum. That’s the minimum number of persons required for a meeting or event to take place.
    Quota suggests to me that there is a certain minimum of
    items to be on the agenda.
    Maybe Stephanie can clear this up for us.

  • http://undefined rek

    We live in an age when loss of hypothetical business in movie and music retail is considered loss due to piracy.

  • http://undefined McKingford

    equating Canada with a third-world country just because you can’t get a patio licence is simply ridiculous.
    Exactly. In a third-world country you could just bribe someone and get your licence…
    ~
    he’s going to have to play by the city’s rules, even if they are overly abstruse
    I have to agree with corky’s comment here. There is nothing in the article to suggest the city rules are abstruse.

  • http://undefined McKingford

    Exactly. Or, to put a local flavour to it, where the government gives a prospective airline $20M because it cancelled a bridge that was in the planning stages only. These are called “damages”, even though the airline is now flourishing (in no small part due to the infusion of taxpayer monies qua “damages”) without the very bridge the airline claims it needed to survive (but now acknowledges was unnecessary).

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    We don’t live in the U.S. Sorry.
    @McKingford
    That’s cause they had a contract. In this case, there is no obligation on the city’s part.

  • http://www.twitter.com/vicdezen Vic De Zen

    I don’t think a plea to your customers to complain to the city is the best way to make your case. I really don’t think he has a case for this and is going to have to wait for the city to get back to him on this one unfortunately.

  • rek

    That business paradigm leaped the border years ago. Maybe next time you’ll Google first.

  • http://undefined McKingford

    a) Nonsense.
    b) Even assuming a breached agreement, damages are intended to compensate for a loss. If there are two grocery stores next to one another and one stops stocking Count Chocula – even after promising me a supply – my damages for such a breach are zero.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Piracy = debatable stealing
    Waiting for bureaucracy = what exactly?
    You’re comparing apples and oranges here.
    I previously said, that courts won’t recognize THIS PARTICULAR complaint in the story (not one about internet piracy, which is MUCH MORE OPEN TO DEBATE)
    All I’m saying is that if he truly had a loss of business he’d have a case for suing the city. He has none.
    Classic bait and switch trolling, Rek.

  • torontothegreat

    There is much more to the lawsuit for the island airport then your tiny paragraph.
    The lawsuit (which one exactly are you referring to?) wasn’t about bringing a product to market and competition. Your example is as poorly laid out as your paragraph.
    Again, it’s apples and oranges here…

    In January 2004, the federal government would put approval of the project on hold, preventing its construction.[34] Immediately, Deluce would file a $505 million lawsuit against the City of Toronto, claiming that Miller “abused his powers”, by threatening councillors, had Toronto Fire Services and Toronto Hydro “interfere with the construction of a fixed link” and lobbying the federal government to “withhold certain permits.”[34] The federal government later transferred $35 million to the TPA in May 2005 to settle claims arising from the cancellation from Deluce, Aecon Construction and Stolport Corp.[35] Compensation terms were not disclosed.

  • http://undefined Svend

    Due process and red tape are part of Toronto’s culture and should be respected. We need another level put into the system to ensure speedy results never happen.

  • http://undefined montauk

    Why do you keep accusing Rek of trolling? I don’t think you know what that means. Someone isn’t a troll just because they irritate you personally. They’re only a troll if they irritate everyone. Man, if this were a sitcom the two of you would start passionately making out mid-argument.
    That would be hot.

  • http://www.eleganthomesinwesttoronto.com David Pylyp

    If we spend all the time enforcing and minding the rules, no business’s will open to increase the city’s lacking and dwindling tax coffers as people move to the surrounding 905.
    Not saying they should break the rules but the city could (should be able to) issue conditional or provisional licences that could be seasonally adjusted until a council vote is available.
    Government needs to work for the people.

  • http://undefined McKingford

    You have no idea what you are talking about, which explains in part why you don’t understand my point.
    To begin, the City of Toronto paid out a grand total of $0.00 to the parties that sued it as a result of the bridge cancellation.
    The only parties that had a legitimate grievance (iow, a *legal* case) arising from the bridge cancellation were those who were contracted to build the bridge – principally Aecon. This is in large part because of the stupid and rash decision by the TPA to sign the contract on the eve of the 2003 election, when it knew full well the bridge was in danger of being cancelled.
    My point involves Deluce. He had no contract, simply an intention to start an airline. Nobody owed him anything, which pretty much eliminates any legal claim he had. But even if one were to assume for a moment that there was a contract, the bridge cancellation could not conceivably be worth the money in damages he received (by way of settlement, btw, because there is no way a court of law would have awarded him a dime). In today’s Star, Deluce is quoted as saying that building a tunnel would not necessarily increase the number of people flying Porter, which clearly refutes the notion that cancelling the bridge cost Porter anything.

  • http://undefined Chrissy

    Just a small correction – the restaurant is on the northwest not southwest corner as stated.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Hey! Here’s a thought. The island airport isn’t a patio on Bloor “claiming” to have lost business due to bureaucracy by city licensing.

    Why do you keep accusing Rek of trolling? I don’t think you know what that means. Someone isn’t a troll just because they irritate you personally. They’re only a troll if they irritate everyone.

    I’m not sure if you know what trolling is…

    In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, to disrupt otherwise normal on-topic discussion

    Throwing island airport and piracy into a thread about a restaurant patio on bloor? Yeaaaaaa…
    Comparing small claims law to corporate law? Yeaaaaaa…

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    The only parties that had a legitimate grievance (iow, a *legal* case) arising from the bridge cancellation were those who were contracted to build the bridge – principally Aecon.

    But even if one were to assume for a moment that there was a contract, the bridge cancellation could not conceivably be worth the money in damages he received (by way of settlement, btw, because there is no way a court of law would have awarded him a dime)

    Thank you for proving how irrelevant your initial point was.
    So again, to re-iterate. This patio owner has no legal stance.

  • http://undefined rek

    In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, to disrupt otherwise normal on-topic discussion

    Aren’t you thick. I offered a counter example of where business/industry has contended that loss of possible business is actual damage (yes, even in Canada! because geography completely changes whether or not something happened!). It just so happens that said loss was blamed on piracy rather than a bridge or patio permit. Irrelevant or off topic? No. Disruptive? No.
    You’ve done more to disrupt the thread with your name-calling and silly attempts to score points.

  • http://theintrepid.blogspot.com/ Stephen Michalowicz

    You’re absolutely correct Chrissy. The restaurant is on the northwest corner not the southwest corner.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    I’ve already countered that point. You’re hanging on it (speaking of thick).
    Piracy is (or at the VERY least could be construed as) stealing.
    Waiting for a patio permit is not.
    The former can be debated by the courts as a loss of profits, quite easily actually.
    The latter, not so much.

  • http://undefined montauk

    Sure, you could make the argument that Rek is trying to “disrupt” the existing “discussion” (of two comments), sending those two comments into a three-comment tailspin about piracy, but that’s a stretch. He was making an analogy to piracy/copyright, where the “missed opportunities for profit = losses” mentality is also popular. You might dislike or disagree with that analogy, but that doesn’t make it trolling.
    More importantly, trolls aren’t community members. Their online presence is defined by their inflicting of disruptive and inflammatory behavior on the pre-existing community. If Rek persisted in making every thread about piracy, for example, you might have a case. As it stands, however, you don’t. He wasn’t being inflammatory or trying to get our collective goat. He might play with you, but your personal clashes with him don’t warrant troll status.
    And I think you know that.
    After all, if he’s such a troll, why feed him?

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    Sure, you could make the argument that Rek is trying to “disrupt” the existing “discussion”

    I wasn’t aware I was making another argument?

    trolls aren’t community members

    That is totally untrue. Many communities have ‘regular’ trolls are trolls that defend the status quo of the community. I think you know that.

    You might dislike or disagree with that analogy, but that doesn’t make it trolling.

    It does when the OP moves past the point with a counter and the ‘troll’ keeps repeating themselves or using tactics such as the straw man, bait and switch etc etc.

  • http://undefined montauk

    You pasted a definition. You said that Rek meets that definition. In so doing you made the argument that the definition applies to Rek. I’m not sure where the confusion is here.
    “Many communities have ‘regular’ trolls are trolls that defend the status quo of the community. I think you know that.”
    I don’t agree whatsoever with that usage of the “troll” designation, but pretending that I do, I don’t think Rek meets that criterion either. Hedge all you want, but you have to admit, the guy’s valid comments far outnumber those you could quibble over. If he’s a troll then so are you, and so am I. But none of us are (although at the present moment we’re certainly derailing, we aren’t trolling).
    Also, repeating one’s self or arguing in ways you feel are poor doesn’t make someone a troll either. By the same criteria half the Torontoist contributors are trolls too. If he uses a bait-and-switch or strawman and you want to call him on it that’s fine, but at least acknowledge that you used an ad hominem. I hate this thing in Internet discourse — everyone’s learned about fallacies and now superciliously spit Latin at each other. I don’t give a shit whether either of you has been throwing around fallacies like candied popcorn; my sole qualm is that Rek isn’t a troll.

  • http://undefined torontothegreat

    although at the present moment we’re certainly derailing

    exactly… next.

  • http://undefined LKC

    Hello Everyone!!!! Nice to see you care! I am personally the hand behind that handwriting ad would like to say that we deserve to have a government that helps it’s businesses not hinders them!
    That is what we mean! The “3rd world country” part that seems to get people going (which it should)refers to the fact that those countries have governments that don’t help them—this is why they are under developed. Canada is developed!
    And it is not poor planning on the owners part at all—you try opening a restaurant in May before the real summer hits and have to deal with a shitty city strike!
    Thank you! And come by to meet me so I can serve you the best Italian food on The Kingsway FOR SURE!!!!