Newsstand: February 9, 2010
Duly Quoted: Adam Giambrone
Bob Kinnear isn't Greg Kinnear
Adam Giambrone and Our Need for Political Wives
Newsstand: February 8, 2010
Photo courtesy of The Hidden Cameras.
The Hidden Cameras' local leader Joel Gibb is playing a snippet of a new song at Queen's Park today, telling people to bug off and leave animals to their own business (and it's not cause they'll give you a case of swine flu H1N1). Get out your notebook, 'cause today at 12:30 p.m., Gibb and friends are holding a sing-in featuring a chorus that goes a little something like this: "We take and take, we know it's wrong/The earth belongs to animals and/Animals belong alone."
Wait, is Joel Gibb telling you toss your potty-trained pooch out into some grassy field? Perhaps an Animal Farm-ish anthem asking our kind to back down and let the four-legged creatures take the crown? It could be that that's what Gibb secretly wants us to think. But what we do know for sure―he wants us to stop clubbing to save some animals. The end of clubland's heyday? No more 905 at 2 a.m. at Richmond and John? Unfortunately, no. But putting the weapons away to save adorable baby seals would be nice (just look at how cute they are!).
According to PETA, this year's Canadian seal slaughter will steal the lives of 333,000 baby harp seals, often only for their pelts (which are banned in much of the U.S. and Europe). Two months ago, Russia told hunters to pick on someone their own size, outlawing the hunting of harp seals younger than one year of age. Next year, of course, Vancouver's hosting the Olympics, and PETA's afraid that though most of the seal hunting occurs on the other side of the country, it will draw extra attention to animal cruelty in a country generally reputed as a Mr. Nice Guy. Gibb says it's an atrocity like this (warning: graphic content!) that gives the entire country a "black eye." So if you prefer organic cotton to seal scarves, go ahead and sing along against animal cruelty this afternoon―'cause even if you can't carry a tune, it's still better than Pam posing in a leaf bikini.
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CLUB SCENE?
"gives Canada a black eye"?
I'm going to protest against the horrible lameness of this ad by buying a sealskin coat.
If this was created internally, then it's bad enough. But if a creative team at a real ad agency came up with it, then the stench is even worse.
I never expected torontoist to condone and promote PETA who are a bunch of hypocrites. I think I might have to stop reading this site if you actually believe their lies.
Funny, I thought Torontoist would have at least one line talking about how PETA is full of shit, and the concept of Canada CLUBBING BABY SEALS is little more than an animal rights propaganda topic. Wasn't this debunked the last time someone completely clueless talked about how horrible it was?
PETA won't be satisfied until all of humanity is either grazing on grass, or rotting in the dirt.
Wow, what a ringing endorsement.
That guy's so famous that his second search result in Google is the Tall Poppy interview in Torontoist and the fifth is an article in Exclaim about this same issue.
I'm sure he's a nice guy and a fine artist but...
Who the hell is Joel Gibb and why does he think that performing his unique brand of "Urban folk" in the middle of the Tamil protest will get his point across.
If he wants to be taken seriously he should stop standing like an American Apperal mannequin with an english cucumber between his legs.
Im sorry.
PETA should go back to what they do best... killing thousands of otherwise adoptable dogs.
I detest PETA. Detest. Using fear, graphic images, and scare tactics is not how to educate people. I feel ashamed that people associate me with PETA because I am a vegetarian.
Also, that poster is really lame and looks like Joel should pull down his shirt a bit.
I still like the Hidden Cameras, though.
I've been vegetarian for eight years and hate PETA too, especially for their "sell out the women to save the animals" tactics in ads and demonstrations. I'm not just talking about those annoyingly misconceived "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" ads, I'm talking about storing almost-naked women in cages for a demo, packaging reluctant bikini-wearing female interns in Saran wrap and making them lie outside in hot weather, the sex doll campaign, the "female pubic hair is gross and so is fur" campaign, the "Milk Gone Wild" site and campaign, the "naked woman on all fours acting like a cow" "Mother's Day for Pigs" campaign, blah blah blah. Actually, I'm not sure if they've done any campaign that couldn't be placed on a scale from "irritating and ineffectual" to "completely fucking offensive and damning of PETA". I don't know who this hypothetical yokel is who will walk by a PETA demonstration, ogle the naked woman crouched on the ground, and say, "My God! What if we treated humans like we treat cows!" and then puke up his hamburger.
I got an in argument with some PETA douchebag on Pedestrian Sunday in Kensington Market about it. He argued that a) the leader is a woman, therefore whatever she greenlights is acceptable to womankind b) I shouldn't condemn them outright when they've done soooo much for animals c) isn't the objectification of women not as important as brutal animal deaths and d) PETA people go to feminist rallies so shouldn't I, as a feminist, join PETA in solidarity?
PETA could be Jesus for all I care, I can't support an organization that is totally fucked up towards women.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/petas-veggie-sex-super-bo_n_161180.html
I like that they made an ad that they knew wouldn't be aired, questioned why, and then prided themselves on being banned, knowing that they would be. (Not that I disagree with the statement they made.)
I wish PETA would go away. Not that I disagree with the statement they made.
I LOVE THIS WOMAN FOR SPEAKING UP AGAINST CRAPPY ADVERTISING. It takes courage to go against the grain. If you are single, I would love to meet you.
Apparently, Joel Gibb is straddling an arctic crevasse or something in that photo. That rocker pose is teetering pretty close to the border of Zakk Wylde territory.
I would also like to note that while Joel would apparently never be caught dead in a baby seal pelt (and I really can't blame him), the jeans (and probably the t-shirt) he's wearing are almost 100% likely to be the product of a human sweatshop. I'm just sayin'.
And what's so wrong with pair of overinflated tits?
This ad is awesome! Its clever, creative and fun, all while bringing attention to a serious issue! I applaud both "the hidden cameras" and peta for speaking up for the hundreds of thousands of seals who are skinned alive! They are right! Canada's Club Scene does suck!!
What an unflattering photo.
It's easy to dismiss the seal hunt as "the greed of a few", it's harder to admit those pelts put food on families' tables in communities that are difficult enough to sustain. PETA would probably have more success finding other lines of work for the "few" than appealing to millions of people to get angry and rage in some unspecified direction.
On the contrary--look here, for example: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/04/17/the-millions-ottawa-spends-subsidizing-the-seal-hunt.aspx
An editorial from the National Post (last year) explaining the incredible inefficiency of the federal government's subsidizing the seal hunt. The food-on-the-table argument is a red herring: we'd put more food on more tables by giving our tax dollars straight to the erstwhile sealers & stopping the hunt.
That would make a much more convincing ad.
The Canadian commercial seal hunt is cruel and barbaric, ecologically unsustainable, and completely unnecessary economically. It is time for this killing to end, once and for all. The rest of the world has already come to this conclusion.....it is just a matter of time before the EU is going to ban the import of all commercial seal products.
I am pleased to see that an international organization has joined with a Canadian musician to help bring attention to the plight of over 1 million of seals that have been (and continue toe be) inhumanely slaughtered.
On another note, after reading some of the remarks here, I am disappointed that rather than looking at the big picture- the seal hunt itself- people are instead focusing their attention on criticizing PETA, and posting nasty remarks about the musician involved.
Just wanted to point out that all the activists who participate in PETA campaigns are volunteers, and they're not only women ...guys have done the "naked thing" too.
Say what you will about PETA's tactics but they do get attention.
This is not a popularity contest- it is about the senseless killing of innocent animals.
If PETA doesn't want to get hated on, it should really reconsider its strategies.
Also, you have got to be kidding me if you think that PETA's use of men in its ads and demos is as a) frequent b) sexualized and c) loaded as its use of women. PETA wants to demonstrate that animals are commodified and objectified and treated like crap, but it can't skin an animal right in front of us (because that would be wrong!) so it commodifies and objectifies women instead, begging us to draw the parallel. Just as PETA members would be outraged if PETA skinned animals to get its point across, I'm outraged that PETA resorts to the lowest denominator of sexism to get its point across. Get it?
The fact that women volunteer for PETA is completely irrelevant to me. The modeling industry is filled with women competing for positions but that doesn't mean it's a lovely and unproblematic industry. Believe it or not, women can willingly participate in the perpetuation of sexism. That doesn't make it less sexist, and that doesn't make it less abhorrent to me.
And I agree that PETA's tactics get attention -- negative attention. After all those demos, do I remember what the actual cause was for? Vaguely, if at all. But I do remember that PETA is an organization I want no affiliation with. This idea that "any attention is good attention, even if it's outright condemnation of us" doesn't really work for social justice organizations. And just what are you drawing attention to? Do people leave your demos saying "Wow, that really made me think about animal rights" or do they leave saying "Hey, a naked woman!"? And you're surprised when the comments section isn't focusing on Teh Animals?
@DD
That's like saying why look at Hitler and the Nazis when you have to look at all the great medical achievements of Josef Mengele (Yeah, you can declare Godwin's Law all you want, it's just an example). I can see that you would like to think that the ends justify the means, but PETA has a soiled reputation that it's still proud about, and there are much better animal rights organisations out there then it that your better off supporting. The people you associate with always have an impact on your credibility, which of course isn't fair but hey, that's the way life is. Just because they are louder and more obnoxious doesn't make them better.
I just have to add this - I don't know if this is training you guys receive, but every time I talk to PETA person, they say "Say what you will, but sex sells!" or some variation always preceded with "say what you will" and followed with some unsubstantiated vote of confidence. No. You can not brush off, undermine and devalue my criticism with "say what you will". I have told PETA people time and time again that their tactics communicate to me that I am not welcome at their events, that I am not respected, and that how their tactics make me feel is not cared about and not heard. I am not going to actively support something that's actively shitting on me. Say what you will.
Here are some fun seal hunting myths:
1. Seal hunting is not sustainable.
2. Seals are skinned alive.
3. Somehow, something that provides food, fur and money is a totally pointless activity.
I am shocked at all the riduculous comments here. I thought we were supposed to be a kinder and gentler nation. I LOVE THIS MAN FOR SPEAKING UP AGAINST THE HUNT. It takes courage to go against the grain. If you are single, I would love to meet you. REAL MEN PROTECT THE DEFENCELESS. Red necks would harm a seal. RED NECKS, BE GONE. Time to evolve Canada. Do not let American values makes us ruthless, so hell bent on making money that we forget, all beings deserve a right to live. STOP SHAMING CANADA, AND FIND A JOB THAT IS PRODUCTIVE, NOT DESTRUCTIVE.
WHO ARE YOU SHOUTING AT
Ahahaha, American values? Really?
Hahahahahahahahaha. Americans have feelings and soft spots for baby animals, too.
I am always surprised why any Canadian would be so threatened by the seal hunt. The Maritimes make very little money off the seal hunt. It amounts to a couple thousand dollars for EACH hunter. And it's subsidized by the federal government, so basically the government(and thus taxpayer) is paying people to go out and kill seals. On top of that, all the money lost by seafood boycotts around the world because of the seal hunt puts the hunt even more in the red. It would be a no brainer to scrap the seal hunt, considering all of these costs which the government seems to ignore (like loss of seafood sales income and their own money spent to prop up the industry). When you add the costs of the seal hunt, it doesn't make money but LOSES money. Industries which need to be subsidized are not profitable, otherwise, the government wouldn't need to infuse cash to keep it going. Maybe the goverment subsidization money would be better spent actually retraining people to do something constructive rather than pay people to torture animals.
Thank you for this. I am sick and tired of people thinking that the seal hunt is either not an issue, or is keeping people from starving. It IS cruel, inhumane and pointless, and the government ignoring the various bans on seal pelts, etc. is ridiculous.
And there are cases of them being skinned alive. And more often than not, they leave their bodies behind. Rather than everyone having a knee-jerk reaction to PETA, read something from the IFAW or a similar organization.
http://www.stopthesealhunt.ca
It's interesting that you want to protect the cute and fuzzy at the expense of potentially tens of thousands of more cold and slimy fish that would be dragged from the ocean and suffocated in compensation. I thought PETA cared about animals.
Rek,
No, not fish. Sea kittens Rek, sea kittens!
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2009/01/desktop_sea_kittens_peta.jpg
http://blogs.citypages.com/food/sea%20kitten.jpg
I attended this event and it was great. Nice and peaceful on a beautiful day. It was alot like the love in of the 60's and that really is a nice break from the stress, madness and repression of our time. The group protesting the genocide of Tamils were super nice and stopped chanting during Joel's and band's singing. We joined them afterwards showing unity for the rights of animal and people.
It is easy to bash Peta because that allows you to ignore all they say and can tell you about. After 25 years of telling people about the atrocities done to animals that are 100% unneccessary and unnice and being ignored, you would be a bit crazy for attention as well.
I think people's guilt and selfishness has taken over where kindness,compassion and a willingness to care should be. Which does explain the cruelty that exists in our world from massive starvation and poverty, to crime to animal abuse. Idolizing celebrities and celebrity culture for wearing fur and disrespecting those who don't because they know that fur is the result of agonizing and brutal animal suffering and death just to me seems like the real old same old.
I haven't eaten meat in eight years, I'm cutting out non-vegan animal products, I avoid leather, I donate to humane societies. Don't insult me by assuming my only motive to criticize them is because I'm scared of their truths or whatever. Consider that I might actually have some legitimate qualms, please.
Plenty of other groups also strive to get their message out - for hundreds of years - and they don't have to sell out women to do so. Needing attention doesn't give you carte blanche to get it by any means necessary. And again, let's question what exactly you're drawing attention to, and whether there might be more innovative ways to do it.
"Idolizing celebrities and celebrity cultures for wearing fur..."
WTF?
Does anyone idolize a celebrity because he or she wears fur?
"Celebrity cultures" .... I presume you mean the Inuit? It's true, we idolize them. Bigtime. They're the Britney Spears of cultures. And it's all because they wear fur!
People, the point of all this isn't that bashing seals is cool; it's that this ad is lame, and that PETA are so in-your-face that they irritate even those who would otherwise be open to the ideas they promote.
I am really disappointed in the massive amount of negative comments directed at PETA when there is a much MUCH bigger issue here. The point is, these are innocent animals that are killed in cruel ways for their fur, which is totally and completely unnecessary. PETA may have some unconventional means of spreading their message, but sometimes it's necessary. The issue is that there are countless animals suffering and being used for economic gain. It's wrong, and if we can do something to stop it, we should... and encourage those who try to show the world what's going on... and encourage those who show compassion to animals and those who can't defend themselves. So instead of bashing each other ... quit being so shallow and see the bigger picture.
Nope. Not "sometimes necessary" to be sexist. Just as it's not "sometimes necessary" to be racist. It's never necessary.
I resent the implication that my criticism amounts to "bashing". I'm not just blindly hating on PETA here. I am identifying a specific problem PETA has - sexism - and I'm saying that I cannot support them as a result. Can one of you PETA people possibly address my concern without trying to de-legitimize it? Honestly.
But thanks for calling me shallow for having an issue with sexism.
Whoa?! Holy hostility here!
Hey…I’m certainly not always “for” all of PETA’s tactics, but I am FOR doing everything we can to end the suffering of animals at the hands of humans (and if you care about animals, I don't think PETA-bashing is an effective use of your time by any means). I’m also FOR public figures willing to stick their necks out and take a stand for what they believe in…there are so few “people of influence” who are brave enough to give a sh!t. So kudos to you, Joel Gibb!!! I’m not that familiar with The Hidden Cameras, but I’m about to get familiar.
I'm glad you're concerned about the effective use of my time. What would be a more "effective" use of my time? Favourable comments? We're all just commenting on a goddamn blog post. Lets be frank, this is not an "effective" use of any of our time. I do care about animals, but I do not go about every day asking myself, "Am I effectively using my time to save seals?"
The closest we could get to "effective" discourse here is to address T-rek's comment, which no one is interested in doing. I'm just obsessed with the sexist part, and you PETA people are just obsessed with the suffering part, and no one here is talking solutions to sealing. Let's not delude ourselves.
Well, now I've replied to T. Rek. Short version of the NatPost editorial I linked to up there: Our government spends millions of dollars subsidizing & otherwise supporting the hunt, so that a few thousand sealers can make an average of $1000/year (these are the DFO's own numbers). Therefore, the reason for continuing the hunt can't be putting food on sealers' tables, because we could put way more food on way more tables by stopping the hunt & giving the sealers a fraction of the money we'd save.
>I think people's guilt and selfishness has taken over where kindness,compassion and a willingness to care should be. Which does explain the cruelty that exists in our world from massive starvation and poverty, to crime to animal abuse. Idolizing celebrities and celebrity culture for wearing fur and disrespecting those who don't because they know that fur is the result of agonizing and brutal animal suffering and death just to me seems like the real old same old.
Well I agree with most of what you say, this is a bit of a fallacy.
Since the beginning of time, humans have pampered the ideology of: mass starvation and poverty, to crime to animal abuse and Idolizing celebrities and celebrity culture.
So to change our 'human nature' is a feat indeed.
Thank you Joel Gibb and PETA. It is time the baby seal slaughter which is cruel and embarassing for Canada ends. Anyone and any organization that helps is wonderful in my world.
PETA is the Westboro Baptist Church of environmental activism.
Yes.
Thank you PETA for doing this. Nice add.
For all the critical people out there I just want to say, how about $1,000-$1,500 dollars a year that the sealers get annually makes SUCH a big difference? BTW few days ago, fresh pelts from harp seals were found in a garbish container in New Foundland and several clubbed or shot baby seals have been found on the ice dead and just left with their pelts intact. WHY? Because the fishermen (sealers), get not enough $ out of them. So now they even throw them away. That is what PETA and other big orgs. are against: cruelty and waste. This "hunt" also risks the lives of the sealers and the extreme conditions surrounding the "hunt" endanger their lives. It is just not worth it to risk your life for such a little income.
Just a note: The Canadian commercial seal hunt is not a hunt, but a slaughter!
To stay with the real purpose of this article, being the seal hunt, I think it important to provide you with an educating document so you can learn the truth about what is going on. Whether you agree with an organization or not, should not be the basis of your opinion; but rather the issue they are trying to raise awareness about. If a racist is trying to raise awareness of woman's rights, would you simply not support woman's rights because you are against racism? Would not the women be suffering? This is what I see with negative comments towards PETA. Is not your prejudice towards PETA further prolonging the suffering of the animals? I encourage you to look at the facts about the seal slaughter for the seals who are suffering and for no other reason:
http://www.stopthesealhunt.com/atf/cf/%7B705410E5-CFD6-40B9-B365-217E790CF6D3%7D/Seals_Fact%20Sheet_pp04.pdf
If a racist is trying to raise awareness about women's rights, I'll still support women's rights, but there's not a chance in hell I'll support the racist, or any of the racist's efforts. I'll find a feminist organization to throw my money and support behind that doesn't require that I condone its assholery.
Likewise, I am still into animal rights, but there is not a chance in hell that I will ever support PETA, attend a PETA event, or distribute PETA materials.
I can't stress this enough: you don't need to be involved in PETA, in any shape or form, to support animal rights. You can even actively disapprove of PETA, like I do, and still support animal rights. Yes! Your mind is blown!
Finally, it's ironic that you're calling me "prejudiced" against PETA for pointing out their prejudice. I don't think "prejudice" means what you think it means. You PETA folks seem to think that my criticism is "bashing", "prejudice", hurting the cause, an "ineffective use of my time", a defense mechanism against taking action -- you'll come up with virtually anything to avoid acknowledging the legitimacy of my criticism, won't you guys? Why don't you just fucking address it? Must you fall prey to the oh-so-common activist fear that if you admit you've got problems, you'll lose your causes? Don't you realize that you can just as easily lose momentum by making everyone hate you?
Lastly, no, my criticism of PETA is not "prolonging the suffering of animals", although I'm flattered that you think my comments carry such regard. I do plenty for animals without PETA. The most damage I could do is turn others away with my criticism, and if that's the case, it indicates that change within PETA is needed - not change within my commenting habits. I mean, if all it takes to turn people off PETA is to learn about PETA's campaigns, that says something rather damning about the organization, doesn't it?
I said this before, and I'll say it again: if PETA doesn't want to get hated on, it should really reconsider its strategies. If it doesn't want to get called sexist, all it has to do is stop being sexist. Consider the radical notion that PETA is being called sexist not because I'm a crazy defensive animal-hating asshole, but because it actually is.
About the seal hunt, it is the rich and celebrities who wear fur, they are the demand and as long it is hot and glamourous for a celebrity to wear fur they will. And as long as they buy and wear fur innocent, powerless animals will live their lives in cruel confinement, be trapped, bludgeoned, electrocuted,shot, tortured and brutally slaughtered in other words all to meet that demand. As long as people are debating and arguing about Peta and their stategies, the longer celebrities and the rich will not be the culprits and the fur trade will continue.
As for Peta and their sexism. When this issue arose I thought about it and decided it was wrong. I even wrote them a letter about it. But after some thought I have changed my mind. I think what PETA is doing by showing caged, bloody nearly naked women is painting a really ugly picture about the fur trade, what is done to animals on a regular basis. It is not pretty or nice and I think that message comes across very well with their demos. It is distrubing to see a caged women but so is the truth about the fur trade.
I don't think people discussing PETA is the real threat to seals. People, in lieu of discussing seal hunts, also discuss some inane things like:
+ baseball games
+ the latest IKEA catalogue
+ pregnancy scares
+ bed bug infestations
+ who drank all the juice but left the empty carton in the fridge
...and you aren't accusing them of wasting their breath on non-seal-saving conversation. Face it, you just don't like what I'm saying, and you're worried that I'm poisoning your cause. But if seal-hunting is truly continuing because of people like me focusing on PETA's sexism, you'd think PETA would drop the sexism to save the seals. Right?
If PETA has a problem with me discussing its sexism, it can instantly stop me by not being sexist. Don't imply that I should shut up because I'm talking about sexism instead of seal hunts. Maybe you should shut up for talking about seal hunts instead of genocide. But I would never suggest that, because you should have the right to protest seal hunting, even if it's not everyone's top priority. Just as I have the same right to protest sexism.
Finally, regarding your comment about PETA's sexism being okay:
Let me ask you a question: if it's just about showing what animal cruelty looks like when applied to humans, why does PETA almost exclusively use almost-naked women in its demonstrations? Why not men? Children? The elderly? Why sexualized women?
If it's about painting a really ugly picture, why also make it sexy?
Why is it okay to perpetuate the objectification of women, but not animals?
You know, I'm okay with shock activism when used sparingly and intelligently. But I'm not okay with using shock activism that sells out another marginalized group. It's just a slap in the face. It also means keeping one's thinking firmly inside the marketing box with no evidence that it's the best plan of action.
CLUB SCENE SUCKS IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE....
I wouldn't have thought so much passion would have been roused at the chance to knock someone for standing up for an issue they believed in. Criticisms about PETA’s past practices don’t seem to apply here. And those who dismiss the animal rights issue need to do more research.
There's so many HATERS here! Someone stands up and speaks out about what they believe in and all we can do is knock it? I’d have to say that while I agree with some of the critiques about PETA’s tactics and think they are valid, I wonder, wouldn’t it be better to try and do it right rather than criticize but remain apathetic and inactive? It seems like that's Joel Gibb and his band were trying to do – take the courageous but vulnerable step of speaking out about an issue they cared about in a way that wasn’t sexist or preachy. Oh so you don’t like the advertising images? Really? Are we that superficial and petty that we’re going to focus on the images rather than the issues?
My sense is that HATERS are HATERS and nothing anyone else does is going to change that – it’s really more of a personal choice than an informed opinion. And just to be clear I see a big difference between being a hater (brave with your criticism but not willing to step up and try to do things better) and critics (which are an important part of democratic vitality).
People who step up and take a stand are vulnerable for doing so - why are so of you ready to hammer down on them? THE CLUB SCENE SUCKS IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE…..
I agree with these seal slaughter campaigns:
1. Bludgeon demo where a volunteer dressed as a sealer bludgeons fake bloody plush seals to depict the way in which seals are slaughtered: unpredictable, unmanageable, and taking place under dangerous and hurried conditions. It is precisely these conditions that have led some experts to conclude that this hunt can never satisfy the requirements of a humane hunt.
2. Crawl Demo where volunteers are dressed completely in a white suit with a seal face crawling around in fake blood to depict that very often during the seal slaughter the seal's scull is not fully crushed, and therefore the seal is likely to be skinned while still conscious. During an overview of the seal hunt by a veterinary team who witnessed it by helicopter and video documentation, it was concluded that only 15% of the hunt conformed to the Marine Mammal Act, meaning that only 15% of the time the seal's were checked for vital signs before they were skinned, mutilated, or even dragged across the ice by a hook imbedded somewhere in their face.
3. 'Hug me don't club me' demo, which includes a cute baby seal costume to depict that around 95% of seal's slaughtered are between the ages of 13-3.5 months old.
And to put these sentient beings through such suffering only because they need a scapegoat for their own irresponsible overfishing and environmentally destructive practices...
When the Department of Fisheries and Ocean's own scientists recognize that there is a complete lack of scientific evidence to suggest that seals contribute to the decline in cod stocks...
The seal hunt is disgusting and should have been stopped years ago.
PETA's history of sexism is ongoing, not "past practices". This particular ad isn't sexist, but I find it perfectly acceptable to discuss the sexism of an organization involved in an event, just as I would find it pertinent to mention if an organization sponsoring a sports event is also horribly racist.
You don't get a free ride for "standing up for what you believe in" any more than you do for "following your heart" or "being yourself" or whatever Disney platitude you're working from.
You're right, it's better to try and do something right than to criticize it and remain inactive. But I don't know why you assume everyone's inactive, or that being inactive renders someone's criticisms invalid, or that being inactive in PETA means being inactive in animal rights.
"Are we that superficial and petty that we’re going to focus on the images rather than the issues?"
Yes. Thank you for implying that I'm superficial and petty for taking issue with sexism. I'm sure you'll show up to call me a shallow bitch for complaining about racism someday. Honestly, if PETA doesn't want me to focus on the images, it should stop using sexist images. It's that easy, folks! Think about this for a second - PETA puts naked women gratuitously all over its ads and you're surprised and outraged that the images are getting more attention than the text? Really?
Finally, if you don't want me to keep derailing you, try not trivializing my criticisms. Or, you know, just resist my derailments.
Just to be clear when I refer to superficial critiques of the advertising image - I mean the one shown above featuring Joel Gibb from the Hidden Cameras. Some people don't like the way he's wearing his shirt or standing -whatever! That's not the point.
Sorry for any confusion though, because I do think images matter and sexism (racism and other isms for that matter) in advertising isn't just a superficial image thing and should be criticized.
Yes it's valid to discuss PETA's actions overall, my point was to acknowledge that in this case the artist involved was trying to do something different. If you are critical of PETA's tactics (a brief google image search shows me that I agree with you), why be so quick to knock an individual artist's attempt to do something different from that?
Finally, DIsney has nothing to do with my opinions about taking a stand other than perhaps inspiring me to boycott them.
I realize that PETA's whole schtick is sucking the humour out of everything and being intolerant of anything that might indicate a nanometre of possible grey area, but it is possible that one can comment on Gibb's silly rockstar pose and have an opinion on PETA at the same time—or to comment on the former and not care to offer the latter.
Because when it comes to PETA, the dialogue tends to look like this:
"Ha ha, what a goofy pose Joel Gibb is st—"
"BUT THE ANIMALS ARE DYING! HOW CAN YOU BE SO GLIB WHEN THERE IS A BLOODY HOLOCAUST HAPPENING IN KITCHENS ACROSS THE COUNTRY!!!", etc.
Oh, and before anyone invokes Godwin on me, the comparison to the Holocaust is PETA's, not mine.
You know, I appreciate that you're probably the only person on the PETA side of things who responded nicely and coherently in this comments section. So, you know, total bonus points.
I wasn't one of the ones making fun of the ad, so I can't comment there. However, I do think that Torontoist commenters aren't obligated to stick to any particular facet of a post.
Regarding the Disney thing, I'm saying that nobody is going to get my respect (or gentler treatment) by virtue of "standing up for what they believe in". People can stand up for a belief in something terrible, stupid, or whoppingly unethical. The fact that they had the balls to voice an opinion doesn't earn them any leverage with me.
I mentioned "Disney" because the whole "stand up for what you believe in!" thing seems to have the naivety of a Disney plotline, where the main character just learns to "stand up" or "believe in herself" or "follow her heart" or whatever. I'm trying to say that it's a rather insipid and juvenile point, no offense.
Thanks for the respect and explanation.
I see what you mean and agree with the sentiment.
Lot's of racists stand up for what they believe in and there's nothing noble about it.
peace
Today the European Union voted against the importation of Canadian seal products into any EU member country. Does this not tell us something about how the world views us?
IF the Canadian government truly wants to help sealers and their families the government will support new business and industry; business and industry that has a sustainable future and can truly support sealers and not just give sealers a few extra dollars in their pockets.
Wow! How about eco-tourism. I know Canada could easily set up a tourist industry taking people out to see the seals and their pups. Polar bear watching is big business in Churchill Manitoba. Where once people went on Safari in Africa to shoot lions now they are taking photos. Come on Canada, wake up to the new world. If we truly love this country and care about its citizens we will have to change.
What I wanna know is what the Pet Sh—I mean, the Rescue Shelter Boys have to say about all of this.
I'm confused. Hasn't Torontoist been historically pro–seal clubbing?
Interesting:
peace2peace, Helmut, Openview, una1rose, kitty, Roger, Annexchick, Sunflower, trp74, Essena, DD, Lucas s, (and possibly what-the?) are all likely PETA members or employees alerted to this post and asked to comment. Check their profiles (what-the?'s won't load) and you'll see this is the only article they've commented on.
Only two of the overly supportive commenters here (Eric26 and noizangel) have a posting history.
I'm a fan of the Hidden Cameras and that's why I decided to join the group so I could comment. Up till now I've mostly been a "lurker" on the Torontoist. I'm not a PETA member, though I've learned more about the issue here and I don't think it's such an open and close case.
However, this glimpse into the kind of discussion that happens on the Torontoist has left me unsure about wether its how I want to spend my energy and time. I'm a big fan of debate, I think it's boring if everyone agrees, but I also value a certain kind of respectful disagreement and thoughtful critique that I'm not sure I see here (at least not in the form I'd be interested in participating in). To be fair, I don't even think it brings out the best in me. It seems more about the fight than what's right. In some cases I sense that folks have a legitimate critique but it's wrapped up in lots of other psychological-bully-type- baggage. Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one. That said, it's only been a brief glimpse and I'll sustain my judgement till I have a bit more to base it on.
Up till now I've mostly been a "lurker" on the Torontoist.
Your lack of posts means you've only lurked until now.
However, this glimpse into the kind of discussion that happens on the Torontoist has left me unsure about wether its how I want to spend my energy and time.
A consummate lurker such as yourself should already know what kind of discussion happens here.
ROLLING OUT THE WELCOME MAT.....
Oh boy, is this about debating issues or nit-picking people's posts so as to scare them off your turf?
Perhaps I'm reading the tone of your posts all wrong (which is possible with dis-embodied text) - if so I'm sorry. However, my sense is that, your posting-bravado is more about silencing folks or winning a pissing contest than engaging in discussion.
In terms of your above comment I think you are contradicting yourself.
As a "lurker" I haven't posted before. I never claimed to be a "consummate lurker". i've read stories on and off over the past year (mostly on topics I have a direct interest in) and on the occasions I have read the comments thread I usually give up because it's often too much work weeding through the bravado to get to the more thoughtful, informative or respectful contributions. Though, as I said, in spite of that impression, I don't want to jump to judgment yet, I'm trying (though not always successfully) to have some humility and optimism and trust that perhaps my initial impression is wrong.
I'm taking the time to speak up here, but I also want to be careful not to get too drawn in. I can see that perhaps the tone of these discussions has more to do with the medium than the participants.
PS. To be fair, several folks on the "PETA side of things" have come off pretty condescending and (ironically) aggressive too.
Like I said, I feel that I'm even coming off as more confrontational than I would in a face to face conversation.
@rek
Yeah, I'm used to stuff like this when a cult/organisation/group is being "attacked", I call them clown car tactics. It's either some guy instant messaging his friends to comment or one person with multiple names/accounts.
Sorry, genius, I am NOT a member of Peta, nor do I work for Peta. The only thing you got right is that this is the first time I have been on here because a friend told me about the backlash going on because the more EVOLVED of us are speaking out. Some of us have a life, and do not sit on computers all day, thinking we are a legend by attacking those of us who are waking people up to what one of the greatest minds said "you can tell the evolution of a people by how they treat the most defenceless" Ghandi...in our case, the animals. Einstein, Buddha, Tesla, Pythagoras and D'avinci made similar comments. It seems you are stuck on the lowest wrung of the Maslow hierchy of needs. If you spent more of your time studying philosphy and spirituality instead of your conspiracy theories, you would see what we are saying. As for the capitalizing of words, it is FOR EMPHASIS, and trying to CUT THROUGH THE CRAP HERE. GOT IT, MONTAUK. THE EUROPEAN UNION GETS IT. THEY VOTED TO STOP THE IMPORT OF THESE BLOODIED PRODUCTS. IT IS ABOUT TIME. Morrisey said we are as bad as CHINA....and he is right. COME ON CANADIANS....GROW A HEART.
I do think I'm a legend for sitting around all day on my computer. I'm also a forty-five year old man living in my mom's basement. With no friends. And a tiny penis. We're talking three, four inches, max. I basically spend my day having unsuccessful cybersex with other men pretending to be girls, dialing a woman's number on my phone and then hanging up out of performance anxiety, and playing Dungeons and Dragons with myself. Sometimes I do laundry - it's all elastic-waisted sweatpants and pit-stained T-shirts from old Star Trek conventions, naturally - other times I skip it and lie around the basement in my embarrassingly crotch-baggy underpants. I won't lie to you, Essena - I have a disturbing, supplicative, almost incestuous relationship with my mother - the smell of her hair, newly waxed and coiffed from the salon, fills me with such uncontrollable rage that I'm forced to lie under her bed, rubbing this chafed spot on the inside of my thigh furiously, hissing "Give it back, give it back" until my nails bleed. And I have a fixation on the cheese powder packets in Kraft Dinner; I eat them raw, slathering the neon orange paste onto my tongue, I hate it and it's awful but it makes me feel alive. My only other hobbies are sitting forlornly on abandoned swingsets, smelling suspiciously of urine on the eastbound Danforth train (there's always one of us, isn't there?) and paying for my groceries in handfuls of nickels and quarters.
If you take Torontoist from me, what will I have left?
I realized I have a few typos in the above comment, and that I should mention that I somewhat agree with Montauk's observation of treating women like meat is NOT the higher road, but at this point, whatever gets attention is the way to go. I believe it is done with tongue in cheek, and I would do the same, if it meant that animals, who have a more difficult time of it, are getting the help they need. IT SICKENS ME TO KNOW THAT THIS IS THE WAY IT IS. The European Union's decision makes me believe there is hope. As humans, we need to realize that we need these animals more then they need us. WATCH AFTERMATH, and you will see, we are PARASITES here. There are close to 7 billion of us, should there be a hunting season for us to keep us in check? COMPASSION IS IN FASHION. Give it and you may get some back.
One more time. Sexism is never necessary. It's fine if you won't question whether PETA's attention-getting tactics are doing what they're supposed to, I don't expect that at this grade level. But at least recognize that there are other ways to get attention than by being sexist - ones that might not alienate potential PETA supporters.
Also, you've really misconstrued what Maslow's hierarchy is about (it's not a ranking system of how "evolved" someone is, it's a list of needs - being stuck at the bottom rung means that we need to breathe, not that we're neanderthals) and it's probably worth noting that no psychologists or scientists have ever found evidence that the hierarchy has any validity to it. I'm sure, if you really put your mind to it, you can find a more clever and well-researched insult.
>we need to realize that we need these animals more then they need us
I realize this everyday when I eat one.
Ouch.
I actually have quite a bit of sympathy for the anti-seal hunting point of view, but not so much for PETA and their weird tactics, which alienate and entrench people in positions entirely counter to what they're trying to achieve.
What I don't understand though is why all the fuss about seals hunting vs. other inhumane things we Canadian humans do. The seals at least live outdoors and some of them evidently grow up to live roughly normal natural lives.
Meanwhile, in the local slaughterhouse/pig farm/henhouse, animals live and die in conditions that make the life of the seal seem like a delight...
nuff said, knuckledraggers...as for the slaughterhouse animals, that is not what we are talking about here...i do not eat meat, so they are not being farmed for me...they now know that Swine Flu, as well as Mad Cow Disease and Avion were all created by Factory Farming....as Morrisey said Meat is Murder....got blood on your hands?
>as Morrisey said Meat is Murder....got blood on your hands?
Yes, Meat is murder *yawn*
Lock me and the Lions up. In fact, better yet, let's kill all the carnivores to save all the herbivores... better?
And I don't have blood on my hands, I leave that up to the Amish & Hutterite farmers that I buy my meat off of. You know about non-factory farms right?
one more thought,PETA should use some mimbos to make the point that animals are not here for our use and abuse...some men that look like the cover of men's health magazine....i am sure none of you could volunteer...no six pack abs here, you are all eating too much animal fat and sitting in front of computers, making comments about things you could never understand at your evolutionary level...pearl before swine....but that is an insult to the swine...
Sometimes my fat actually spills over my hands onto the keyboard, so I have to type using a pencil in my mouth. It's terrible and embarrassing but my undeveloped neanderthal brain can't find a better solution. Help me, Essena.
I still don't understand why Canadians get so up in arms over this issue.I would think that any Canadian would feel the seal hunt is useless and a very negative blot on Canada's reputation. This hunt is SUBSIDIZED by the government, meaning, you LOSE money on this hunt. Get it? Taxpayers are paying for it, meaning it wouldn't even be profitable if the government didn't infuse money to prop it up.
And there is no need for fur anymore. We don't live in centuries past when furs were needed to keep warm or even alive from frigid temperatures. We're well past that point in our history. We don't need to brutally slaughter these animals for coats. We have loads of alternatives that are much better quality without the inhumane skull crushing slaughter of hundreds of thousands of animals. It's 2009 people, not the 1800's. Wake up and get with the program.
Since Godwin was invoked, let's remember that Hitler was a vegetarian.
Zing!
There's a good article on Hitler's supposed vegetarianism on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler
"Reports state that Hitler occasionally ate meat during the 1930s. While Hitler reduced his meat consumption, he may have not eliminated it entirely, with culinary accounts indicating a sporadic preference for sausage, squab, liver dumplings, ham, and caviar."
There is no such thing as a vegetarian who eats meat.
As Canadian Senator Mac Harb says: "It's time for the government to respond to the wishes of the people. In fact that's what democracy is about."
It's time for the Canadian government to end this behind-the-times dead end industry and start to invest into more alternative and economicaly viable employment opportunities.
Support the Harb Bill.