Rocket Talk: When's the TTC Going to Roll Out More Fare Collection Methods?
Newsstand: November 9, 2009
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Have questions about the TTC? Rocket Talk is a brand new regular Torontoist column, featuring TTC Chair Adam Giambrone and Director of Communications Brad Ross's answers to Torontoist readers' questions. Submit your questions to rockettalk@torontoist.com!
Reader Brock Warner asks:
I live in Mimico, and head west to Humber College every weekday, and east to downtown at least a couple times a week. Why do the streetcars arrive bunched up in groups of 2 and 3 so often? I understand that delays happen, but it is becoming frustratingly frequent.
TTC Chair Adam Giambrone says:
We get this question a lot.
Service reliability—having buses, streetcars, and subways come as often as they are supposed to, and on a regular and predictable basis—is one of the most important parts of providing good quality transit. This is reasonably easy to achieve when the service is operating in its own private space—like subways in their own tunnel, or LRT in a dedicated right-of-way—and you have almost complete control over what goes on in that space.
However, when buses and streetcars have to operate on public roads, and compete for space with everything from private cars to courier trucks, they have almost no control over what goes on in that space, so it becomes much more difficult to ensure that the service will be regular and reliable. Often, buses or streetcars get delayed, causing a “gap” in service.
Once a bus or streetcar falls behind, the problem “snowballs” because more and more people end up waiting at the stops, and it takes longer for these bigger crowds to get on board, so the streetcar falls even further behind, and so on. The streetcars behind the delayed one catch up, the streetcars become bunched together and, when they finally arrive at the stop, they are in twos or threes.
Here’s an example of how even a few seconds here and there can make have a big impact on a busy route:
Say the buses on a given route run every 3 minutes apart. Bus A gets held up an extra 18 seconds at a stop with an unusually large group of people waiting. Then it gets stuck behind 2 cars making right/left turns and it takes 18 seconds more than normal to clear each intersection. Bus B—behind bus A—does not have these problems (it is lucky enough not to get stuck behind cars the large crowds were picked up by Bus A.) This means the bus A is now 30% (or 54 seconds) behind and, instead of 3 minutes between buses, Bus A is only about 2 minutes ahead of bus B. Presuming another bus is ahead of Bus A, it is now at least 4 minutes (instead of 3) behind that bus. If this continues a little more, bus A and Bus B bunch together, and the gap at the front grows.
This is a deterioration of service which frustrates all transit users. Here are the main reasons why it happens, and how the TTC is trying to improve the situation.
- Traffic congestion causes streetcars or buses to fall behind schedule, and so do blockages such as double-parking, road construction, or emergencies. The TTC is working to implement the Transit City Light Rail Plan which will create a network of exclusive rights-of-way for light rail so that the service won’t have to contend with congestion or obstructions and can keep moving quickly and reliably even when traffic on the road around it is not moving. With this, and other service improvement initiatives, the TTC will attract more people out of their cars and onto transit, and this will help reduce traffic congestion and the negatives that flow from it such as air pollution and collisions. In the meantime, the TTC and City are working together to put in place changes to traffic by-laws and regulations which will help reduce congestion in obvious problem areas.
- Traffic signals can cause streetcars and buses to fall behind schedule, especially when they just miss the green light and have to wait for a whole red light to move. The TTC and City of Toronto have installed transit signal priority—which gives buses and streetcars green lights faster and holds the green light until the bus or streetcar has made it through the intersection—at almost 350 intersections in Toronto, and plan to expand it to another 1,500 over the next three-to-four years. This will significantly reduce the delays which are caused by waiting at red lights.
- Big crowds of people all trying to get on a bus or streetcar at the same time—and all through the front door—can significantly delay the bus or streetcar. This happens at the end of the work day at a large employer, when a large store closes for the night, or a movie or sporting event lets out, or a busy intersecting bus or streetcar route has a lot of people transferring onto another route. The TTC is working on expanding its proof-of-payment system—which lets people board faster using any door—and is part of a larger initiative to introduce a “smartcard” automated fare collection system which also allow people to board quickly at any door and reduce delays which currently result from riders all “funnelling” through one door.
- A shortage of supervision can also cause vehicles to be delayed and get bunched up. Bus or streetcar operators don’t have the “bird’s eye” view that a supervisor does, so they can’t know when an incident has occurred on a route or where the other streetcars or buses are. Route supervisors have access to this information and can tell operators what’s going on and what they should do to provide the best possible service. The TTC is implementing transit-specific GPS monitoring on its services so that route supervision can be more effective, with hand-held units. There is also an increase in the number of route supervisors by 20, with a plan to get 40 more when funding will allow it.
- Routes that are carry very large volumes of people require very frequent service to accommodate the demand. With very frequent service, even relatively minor delays can cause bunching. Short turns are an old way of improving headways, and even though the TTC is trying to reduce the number of them needed, they’re unlikely to go away altogether anytime soon. Few people know why vehicles are short-turned, and are understandably miffed when it happens on their ride. Short-turning a vehicle, though, and plugging it back into the line to space things out better, is sometimes necessary to ensure overall service reliability. Going forward, the TTC will be purchasing larger light rail vehicles, with multiple doors, that can carry about twice the number of passengers that our current streetcars do. The larger capacity will allow the vehicles to be scheduled somewhat further apart, and this will also reduce the incidences of bunching and gapping.
There are other factors which affect the bunching-up of streetcars and buses, and the TTC is working on as many of them as possible, but I hope that this helps make this problem more understandable, and helps explain what the TTC is doing about it.
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The streetcars behind pick up less people so they stop less frequently so they catch up to the packed streetcar. This will never ever change. The end.
I hate it when a streetcar purposely blows off going through the intersection just because there's a streetcar ahead of it that went through.
These answers are hilariously vague.
Traffic congestion: Bunching still happens on Spadina, which already has a right-of-way.
Traffic signals: We've been promised priority signals for over a decade. Nothing yet. Also, let's not forget the far-side stop, a glaring traffic-friendly compromise (or design flaw, depending on your perspective) that exacerbates the problem of a streetcar just missing the green light: the car has to wait for the light, and then stop again on the other side to load/unload passengers. My understanding is that far-side stops will also be a feature of Transit City.
Big crowds of people: You're exactly right that front-door boarding is a huge problem. But what is holding back proof-of-payment? You could basically implement that today if you wanted to. Since you're "working on expanding" it, I won't hold my breath.
A shortage of supervision: You're trying this right now, and my understanding is that the effect is not large.
Routes that carry large volumes of people: So the problem is that two cars arrive at once, and your solution is to have a single car that is twice as big, arriving half as often. Are you actually serious??? Has it occurred to you that you're solving the wrong problem?
I dunno, what do you want him to say? Gremlins?
Lots of street lights *do* have the hold in place. For example, I saw it today on College at Bathurst. You can tell it's happening because the pedestrian crossing goes to red, but the traffic light remains green until the street car begins to cross, when it turns red.
I too am disappointed with Torontoist's deliberate concealment of Giambrone's notorious obsessive compulsive disorder. I have it on good authority that the man must have everything in sets of two or three or heads will roll. Recall that Giambrone was fined for excessive and persistent tailgating on the DVP in 1997; when asked to explain his actions he allegedly responded to the law enforcement officer, "If you saw a Honda Civic on the freeway - desperately alone, not a friend in sight - wouldn't you be its little buddy? I did what any man of sound mind and robust heart would do." At the time, this event was just a blip on the public radar - a forgivable eccentricity rendered heartwarming by an indulgent media. Now we must acknowledge that the Toronto darling's mental faculties have deteriorated at the cost of the Commission. Two spoons, three neckties - minor trespasses, easily accommodated. Buses and streetcars - not so. The question is not "How come streetcars and buses bunch up?" -- the question is, what does our complicity in his tragic and disregarded illness say about our morality, our convictions, and our insatiable love of convenience and complacency?
Now is the time, gentlemen.
This made me LOL
10/10!
Actually, I don't find them vague at all. They are pretty specific reasons. Reasons that can be fixed? I doubt it. But reasons nonetheless.
It just goes to show you that a streetcar system is inherently flawed especially in a city like Toronto. If you want to lay blame anywhere, it should be squarely on the boneheaded urban planners of the 60's who didn't foresee Toronto "needing" an extensive subway system. Way to go assholes.
Toronto should've built tunnels all over the goddamn place during the depression as a make work project or 100 years ago when labour was cheap.
I used to be content with the congestion reasoning for this until I moved into Leslieville.
I take the queen car to broadview/queen at which point I transfer onto the King car. Almost without question, there won't be one streetcar for 10 minutes, then there will be 3 or 4 back to back, almost bumper to bumper.
So I decided to investigate further and went to the source - Broadview Subway Station - at which point things became increasingly clear to me. The streetcar drivers would sit at the station (sometimes just sitting there, other times socializing with other drivers, twice I witnessed the driver re-boarding the vehicle with McDonald's food.) and then leave TOGETHER. 3 in a row!
There is no way that this should happen at Broadview/Queen (especially so consistently). In the end, this causes a snowball effect where by one car (usually the first) is jammed while the last car (usually the 3rd or 4th) is totally empty until after Sherbourne.
I think the lack of both supervision and enforcement has more to do with this then anything.
I agree. On a few different bus lines I have seen 2 buses waiting together. Then they leave together and take turns on the occupied bus stops making less work for them and their route time shorter. Unfortunately, it also means that instead of one bus every 10 minutes we get two buses every 20 minutes. Frustrates me every time.
I wonder if the new GPS tracking they're putting in place might solve this problem...
just to add: This is a great series! I hope there are many more.
One problem, that I especially have a pet peeve about, are the people who insist on exiting through the front doors, bypassing the center doors, and blocking the passengers wanting to board. Even in summer.
When I had kids in their strollers, I ALWAYS exited through the center doors (buses and streetcars), even with the stroller and steps.
Northbound Bathurst streetcar = SHITTIEST LOWEST RUSH HOUR FREQUENCY OF ALL TIME
You mean the Bathurst streetcar goes northbound? Never seen it.
If I may speak with the authority of someone who has neither done nor read any formal study on the subject, it seems to me like the biggest problem is passenger loading. As Andrew points out, Spadina streetcars still get bunched up despite the right-of-way. I suspect this is because everybody has to trudge up the front steps single-file, being held up by people getting off at the front instead of the back, getting held up again by people plunking their change into the fare box... it takes freaking forever.
I bet having low-floor streetcars with nice wide doors and a proof-of-payment system (ideally POP only, like Viva) would go a long way towards eliminating the "bunching" problem. Until that glorious day, how about having TTC employees on hand at busy stops to check passes and transfers? And when 4 vehicles get to a crowded stop at the same time, why not send the first one on ahead empty to gain a little ground instead of having everybody pile on the first one while the others are stuck right behind it waiting?
These are pretty good ideas, especially the second.
I think that customer behaviour is part of the problem. Many times when I've see two streetcars approach a stop at the same time - or one within a block or two of the streetcar ahead - I've witnessed everyone gets on the front car even though the one immediately behind is empty. I usually get on the second one and often have two seats to myself, while people on the first car are standing and crowded. If more people would take the second streetcar I think it would be more efficient. It would also mean more space on the first streetcar for riders at subsequent stops.
>And when 4 vehicles get to a crowded stop at the same time, why not send the first one on ahead empty to gain a little ground instead of having everybody pile on the first one while the others are stuck right behind it waiting?
This could totally work, except the public would freak out. I mean look how people react when there is an actual problem.
Maybe, but I think in the case where the other vehicle was right there (not like half a block away or faintly visible in the distance) most people would view it as an acceptable hardship. At least, I would, and I'm more high-strung and impatient than most :-P.
"This could totally work, except the public would freak out. I mean look how people react when there is an actual problem."
Yep. People freak out when completely crowded streetcars go by too, because they're convinced there's at least one nook or cranny somewhere left for them. Which means, more often than not, a driver will leave behind passengers at one stop yet stop at the next with noone needing to get off (usually just to argue with irate commuters). How does that even make sense?
In all the times I've been in packed streetcars (as packed as you can imagine), I've only had one instance where a driver sensibly announced, "OK, unless someone requests a stop, I'm not stopping." Why don't they do this more often?
I have been taking the Queen streetcar for about five years straight to and from work, previously in Parkdale and now in Leslieville. I have had streetcar drivers say "we're too full, get on the next one" or just not even stop unless the bell is rung*. It is rare and I wish it happened more. I think the TTC generally frowns on this kind of behaviour, however; but I have seen it happen more often on buses in North York than downtown. Please draw your own inferences.
My solution tends to waiting for a streetcar that isn't insanely full [501 westbound at Logan 7:30am - 9:15am is insanely full]. If I am in a rush I'll take a cab. If I can't afford a cab I'll excuse myself by simply stating "sorry I'm late, the streetcar was really full".
I too like this series, and montauk is full of win with that comment.
* Streetcars that have broken bell/pulley/ropes and don't stop at my stop...that's a pet peeve.
There are two problems I see regularly. One has a simple fix and applies to streetcar routes that run multiple lines. The other is tougher but I'll mention it anyway.
Simple fix: When you have two streetcars waiting at Spadina station, one bound for Union Station and the other turning around at King, make the first streetcar a King streetcar. That way, people bound for Dundas/Queen/King will take that car and people bound for Queens Quay/Union will take the Union car. This will give you some automatic load balancing and not have a packed streetcar weighing down the line in front.
Tougher fix: I often notice streetcar drivers spending up to two minutes trying to squeeze on those last 3 people waiting at the stop while there's an almost empty streetcar in tow. Drivers should be stopping at this stop only to let people off, not let more people on until the car has emptied out a bit. Since the empty streetcar will inevitably end up waiting behind the filled up streetcar while it squeezes on people one at a time anyhow, it will only speed up the line. The "tough" part is that drivers will actually have to take the initiative to decide that their streetcar is full and take the dirty looks from those waiting at the stop.
Wait a minute. A bus route scheduled for buses 3 minutes apart? Where in the city does this occur - I'd like to move there! For six years of school I waited on Bathurst street every morning for the 7C and it came once every 20 minutes or so....
montauk elevates commenting to an art.
Torontothegreat is so right. I'm frequently at Main Station and it's the same thing - gabbing, waiting forever to take off while having a smoke, another streetcar comes behind them and... they leave together. Without fail! It's apparently lonely just being a single streetcar.
Follow up question, touched upon by Andrew earlier: what sort of work is involved in expanding the proof-of-payment system? From the user's perspective, I can't see much beyond a) mechanical changes, if any, to allow back doors to be opened by driver and stay open and b) administrative changes to instruct drivers to open back doors, let the passengers know this is officially in, and perhaps hire/repurpose more controllers to enforce the POP. Is there more?
What is your estimate for the timeframe necessary to do this for all the streetcar routes as a start?
I've seen a driver do this himself at Yonge/King (when no supervisor/checker was present to do it himself), telling the big crowd waiting to board to use the back if they had Metropass/transfer. I guess it's easier to use the honour system when there's security cameras pretending to Big Brother you.
Hey all, I'm not sure that Adam or Brad are going to hop into the comments to reply to any of these follow-up/subsequent questions. It's probably most wise to e-mail your questions—especially the ones that'd take a long answer—to rockettalk@torontoist.com!
Giambrone is either lying or incompetent. Probably the latter.
As Steve Munro ably points out, Giambrone is full of shit. The TTC simply has no clue how to properly run the Queen line: too long, too few cars, and improper route supervision.
Streetcars are inefficient because people exit from the front doors blocking people from getting on and delaying the cars departure.
Adam Giambrone: instruct the drivers to tell passengers to exit at the rear.
that's one problem solved and it costs $0.00
of course the TTC ignores simple and cheap solutions in favour of something more Rube Goldbergesque.
Streetcars are inefficient because people exit from the front doors blocking people from getting on and delaying the cars departure.
Adam Giambrone: instruct the drivers to tell passengers to exit at the rear.
that's one problem solved and it costs $0.00
of course the TTC ignores simple and cheap solutions in favour of something more Rube Goldbergesque.
Guess what? Drivers tell people to move to the back too, and it doesn't always work. What's more, they have to ask everyone to do it every time more people get on. I've noticed that every time the driver has to remind new arrivals what to do, other commuters get annoyed being talked down to so often.
Many drivers don't because they want to avoid confronting customers. To solve that, the TTC implemented electronic announcements that can be activated by the driver. It looks like it's working, since I hear a lot more of those announcements. After that, it's up to passengers to listen.
I'm not sure why this is a problem of the TTC's. If some people behave badly -- like hogging seats, not removing their backpacks, not moving to the back of the streetcar, blocking exits -- it's passengers' problems. The TTC isn't here to mother us.
McDonald's employees don't have to remind us not to spit on the floor or to chew with our mouths closed. Similarly, the TTC shouldn't have to tell us a thing, because we all should know better.
I've never heard an automated "please exit from the rear doors" announcement
Just need to start tasering people who exit through the wrong doors. They'll learn soon enough, by God.
In other news: death to streetcars! These wretched slow things that can't dodge left-hand turning cars in front of them. They're utter blight on our roads. We should have buses like in Edmonton that run off those wires, which can also maneuver.
I've heard of these new-fangled wireless buses. They can go wherever regular vehicles can go. Amazing technology.
You might not have. But they do exist, and I hear them more than any other announcement. Apparently they even have a "remember your stuff" announcement recorded.
Ban left turns on all streetcar routes.
Ban parking on all major streets.
Make a streetcar-only lane on Queen St., if not then split the route in half with an overlap downtown.
OK, so let's package all this advice to the TTC, since it is evident that very little is being done right now.
- First, arguing that streetcar reliability will be improved by Transit City is a little odd. Existing streetcar routes are nowhere near Transit City. If anything, there is nothing to indicate that the TTC would do a better job managing Transit City lines.
- Signal priority should be at every intersection and should actually work. Right now, the College streetcar sits at the phantom light at the Maple Leaf Gardens built for a Loblaws that never happened, or the Dundas car sits forever at Victoria St. The TTC's idol, the T3 streetcar in Paris, has absolute signal priority: the streetcar does not stop for any other traffic. It only stops at its scheduled stops. Imagine that here, even on Transit City lines.
- Number of stops: there are way too many stops and they have never been rationalized (Sunday stops???). Often, stops are located in front of buildings long since demolished. Look at any European streetcar system and stops are located further apart. Then each gets a nice sign with its name, a map and a schedule.
- Left turns: restrict left turns on streetcar routes and lobby for the TTC to allow enforcement.
- Limit and enforce parking at rush hour. Consider serious enforcement, again, by TTC staff. The police doesn't care.
- Choose: enforced boarding from the front and exiting through the rear - giant signs, ad campaigns, fines, etc. OR allow boarding and entering through all doors. The current system is not a system. It's chaos. Only rarely does the driver ask to exit through the back door. Those who do repeat it a few times and use a big voice.
- In case of bunching, adopt protocols to accelerate the leading car and stall the following cars. This includes refusing boarding in the leading car and skipping stops, and slowing down following cars.
- Crack down on the few drivers who sit at a stop exceedingly long until everyone has moved to the back (prevalent on the 506). After a few minutes, it defeats the purpose and no one pays $109 to be treated like a small child.
- Continue getting rid of the centre bar in the front door and the double seats in the back. It will be years till we get more capacity on these lines and we need more standing space.
And all of you, write to your councillors. Ask why streetcar service is so bad, and why nothing is being done. Refuse the argument that Transit City will fix things. Transit City is somewhere else.
Rockettalk seems to suck. What's it been like 2 months? And one question "answered" by that douchebag Giambrone. There's a tonne of problems with the TTC that wouldn't take anything but brains and hard work to fix... But you won't find either of those things in either the union or the car-loving dilletantes that run the TTC.