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news

Bombardier Wins

By David Topping

20090424ttc1.jpg 20090424ttc2.jpg
The TTC has announced that staff is recommending Bombardier—over Siemens—to manufacture more than two hundred new low-floor light rail vehicles, due to roll out across Toronto’s existing streetcar network starting in 2012 (for “passenger service,” after a prototype arrives in 2011), at a cost of $1.22 billion.
According to TTC Director of Communications Brad Ross, cars for Transit City “still need to be ordered,” and those cars “will be different—bi-directional, doors on both sides, different truck assemblies, etc.” The release sent out today notes that the contract, to be voted on at next Monday’s meeting, “also allows for an option to purchase up to 400 LRVs for the new Transit City network.”
You can take a look at Bombardier’s website for the vehicles now; they’re apparently calling the new LRV vehicles “Flexity,” which we, until now, assumed was a typo.
Renderings, sent today with the announcement’s press release, courtesy of the TTC.

CORRECTION: APRIL 24, 2009 This article originally said that the Bombardier cars featured above were “due to fill out Transit City starting in 2011.” Brad Ross, the TTC’s Director of Communications, clarified to Torontoist this afternoon that the cars are “for the existing network only”—not Transit City, though the contract with Bombardier includes an option for additional cars to serve that network. We’ve fixed that mistake, and updated the article with additional information from Ross and the TTC’s press release.

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Comments

  • http://null nib

    wicked, those look awesome.
    looking forward to riding in them in a few years!

  • http://www.pragmatic.ca Greg Smith

    These streetcars are not to “fill out Transit City”, they’re to replace the current fleet. The Transit City streetcars will come later. C’mon, Torontoist, the bones of this story could have been written (and fact-checked) well in advance of this announcement. Instead, we get misinformation.
    Also, they’re not “calling them” Flexity – Flexity is what they are (and have always been) called. That’s the name of the base model of which Bombardier bid a variant for this contract. There are various versions of the Flexity in service all over the place (as demonstrated by the Bombardier site that you linked to in the post).
    See the vertically mounted bicycle in the interior rendering? Interesting…

  • http://www.pragmatic.ca Greg Smith

    To clarify: the TTC press release mentions Transit city, but only to say that this contract includes an option for up to 400 additional cars, but these ones aren’t those ones.

  • http://www.torontoist.com David Topping

    I double-checked my facts with Brad Ross just now—I must have made a mistake in interpreting the section in the release that mentions Transit City, and I’ll fix that mistake immediately.
    …that said, I don’t see how the “Flexity” comment qualifies as “misinformation” when that is what Bombardier is calling the new vehicles, whether it’s the vehicles’ (sorta-silly) base names or not.

  • http://undefined David Harrison

    With due respect, the wording in the article strongly implies that “Flexity” is a new name.
    Anyway, it looks like these are actually “Flexity Outlook Cityrunners” to give them their full name.

  • Dan Gouge

    That lonely green bike strangely reminded me of Seinfeld’s apartment.

  • http://null andrew

    Funny that even in renderings, the sign can still be wrong [obviously heading westbound although it reads Neville Park].
    I wish renderings would include dirt, graffitti, advertisements, and garbage. It would make it a hell of a lot easier to visualize the interior of a streetcar instead of the brandnew shiny thing 99% of us will never see.
    I’d like to see how that bike upright mechanism works better. Is that supposed to be a folding bike?

  • http://www.pragmatic.ca Greg Smith

    Looks like a normal bike to me, with the rear wheel obscured by a seat. Besides, why hang a folder?

  • http://undefined andrew

    just seemed to me like the rear wheel is either below the floor level, or removed. perhaps it is merely a poor rendering, or a trick of perspective. in any case, it strikes me that vertical bicycle hanging mechanisms/storage devices should have bicycles parallel to the streetcar, and not perpendicular to it.

  • http://null W. K. Lis

    The latest Bombardier Flexity model is the Berlin, built for, of course, Berlin. See this link. I just we will have the “Toronto” version.

  • http://www.pragmatic.ca Greg Smith

    True, the position shown in the render would be prone to swinging the bike side to side (or at least stressing the rim if that’s how it’s hanging) as the streetcar starts and stops. I guess the perpendicular orientation is necessary because there’s no perpendicular bulkhead, and they’re still trying to use potentially dead/standee space productively… or, it’s just fake/mocked up for the rendering.

  • http://undefined rek

    Doors on both sides? Why? And how is the fare collected and verified if the door is a good 20 feet behind (presumably) the driver?

  • http://undefined David Harrison

    The Transit City cars will have doors on both sides and cabs at both ends because they will not use loops, but will simply reverse and change tracks like subway trains do.
    As for fair collection, they will use a fare card system -almost certainly Presto – with fare inspectors. This is needed to support all-door boarding, which is important on a 30m long vehicle.

  • http://null ambrose

    I’m actually kind of excited for these!

  • http://null Rachel Lissner

    I really like the streetcars we have now.
    I wonder how those will look in the background of all the films shot in Toronto.

  • http://undefined leonardbast

    Berlin’s streetcars are awesome, so it’s fantastic news that we’ll be getting similar models.
    The main difference between Berlin public transit and the TTC, though, is that there are no fare collectors (or turnstiles, or cards to swipe, etc) in Berlin–there are only random inspections of tickets on the subways and streetcars themselves, with hefty fines for those riding without a ticket. Might be worth considering for Toronto–even though fare shirking might increase, the system would save a lot of money by not having to pay fare collectors or worry about turnstiles, equipment to collect fares, etc.
    This of course also explains why Berlin can have long streetcars with doors that automatically open for anyone to hop on (sometimes the streetcar drivers there want to see your ticket, but not always).

  • http://undefined leonardbast

    Forgot to add: the grey and red colour scheme is a little drab. Why not go all red, the same way that Berlin’s cars are all yellow? Would certainly raise the TTC’s profile and give the city a more distinctive identity.

  • http://null rek

    These look generic and unremarkable, not nearly as iconic as the current streetcars.

  • http://null Paul Kishimoto

    My impression (from at least a year ago) was that the TTC was down on Presto because it would mean reduced Metropass revenue. Has this changed since?

  • http://undefined Rachel Lissner

    They have the same system in Copenhagen as well. I think Toronto should stick to a method that makes every person pay for each ride (DC and NYC) and not have to worry about a lottery for fines. The character of this city suits the first model better and would guarantee the TTC is making money, not losing it or gambling to.
    I like the idea of the Presto cards. In every city I have been in, scanning cards is the most efficient way to pay for transportation and they are reusable.
    When I went to Berlin, I was quite annoyed that no one bothered to see if I had paid. If no one bothers to check, why pay? I was a tourist, I doubt they’d really crack down on me.
    I totally agree with you on the colours.

  • http://undefined qviri

    For a local example, see YRT’s Viva.
    The big big big point of proof of payment is the all-door boarding which it permits and the consequent speed of loading. It feels so excruciatingly slow to have to file in one by one at a stop, especially on a longer vehicle like this when you could use any of the three other doors instead. Stuff like this has influence in making people not bother with the TTC.
    The turnstile system is fine on the subway because there’s an inherent need for access control, but on a streetcar with more than two doors you’re just going against the design and the objectives of quick transport and becoming part of the city by forcing front door entry. It’s fine at stops where there’s two people waiting, but downtown it’s really a horrible horrible idea.
    Fare evasion is the large problem, of course. A certain toughness with the penalties might help, though I’m not convinced people would be okay with taking it as far as it might be necessary to truly deter everyone. (Zero tolerance $1000 penalty, anyone?) Just to note, certain amount of fare income is constant (Metropass), and will stay constant. And as an aside, while certainly harder and therefore less frequent, it’s definitely possible to scam your way through the single-file entry.
    “If no one bothers to check, why pay? I was a tourist, I doubt they’d really crack down on me.”
    They wouldn’t, not the least because they don’t want to scare the tourists away. But if you knew that you could walk into a grocery store, mill around, then take a newspaper and leave without paying for it, would you still do it? If you could get away with it daily, would you do it? (Some people would and there’s no helping that.)
    At some point, it comes down to deciding between believing most people are decent people who deserve a decent system, or believing most people are out to screw you over and you should screw them over to prevent that. What would Canadians do?
    (Can you tell I’ve grown up using a POP system? On a bus-only system, no less.)

  • http://undefined Solex

    The current ones are easy to get off on and onto, and will be easier for people with strollers, shopping carts, walkers and wheelchairs-fuck being ‘iconic’.