Historicist: "The city that nobody loves"
Elsewhere in the Ist-a-Verse
Photo of Pavel's Facebook profile picture on an iPhone's screen by David Topping.
For a guy whose self-given nickname has the word "lover" right in it, Pavel the Lover is a pretty piss-poor courter.
A proud disciple of Dimitri the Lover (a man with a decidedly unsexy past himself), Pavel's prone to pestering young women and handing them business cards asking if they want to "swing on a star." And in the new year, he's trying out a new tactic to woo the opposite sex: showing photos of his penis to them on the subway.
That's what happened to Jocelyn, a 23-year-old University of Toronto drama grad (whose last name we've left out at her request and whose honesty we can vouch for). Two Wednesdays ago, Pavel approached Jocelyn on a Bloor-line subway car headed east towards Bloor-Yonge Station, motioning to her to take her headphones off, saying hello, and passing over a business card that read "Pavel the Lover" on one side and "Being a good girl is not enough" on the other (no phone number this time, but the card still featured a list of accomplishments that included studying under Dimitri). The second Jocelyn figured out what was going on, she told Torontoist, "I was like, 'ah shit.'"
"You're really elegant," Pavel told her. "Call me when you get the courage."
"I'll never have the courage," Jocelyn replied. Pavel asked if she was single, and Jocelyn replied that she was—but "just not interested" in him.
"You should consider calling me," Pavel persisted.
"Your card is ugly," Jocelyn told him. "No," he replied.
Catching the Dimitri reference on Pavel's card, Jocelyn turned her attention to Pavel's tutor. "I've heard his stuff on the internet," she said. "It makes him sound insane." Pavel, Jocelyn says, "didn't know what to do with that"; he didn't have a reply (not even a "no"!). "So, basically," she offered as a presumed final shot at Pavel, "you have nothing to offer society."
Pavel backed away, and Jocelyn anxiously put her headphones back on. But, as the train got nearer and nearer to Yonge, Pavel took out his iPhone, "started tapping away"—with Jocelyn "thinking 'what the fuck is going on?'"—then tapped her on her shoulder and proudly displayed a photo of his penis on the phone's screen.
Jocelyn, understandably disgusted, quickly and decisively told Pavel to get away from her. But, amazingly, Pavel seemed even more shell-shocked by Jocelyn's reaction than she was by his penis. "But," he spluttered, "you asked what I had to offer society..."
As the train arrived at the station and Pavel, neutered, returned to his seat, Jocelyn hurried off the subway and away from him. Pavel—slightly cross-eyed, totally creepy, and the proprietor of what Jocelyn "would optimistically describe" as a "three-quarter-inch penis"—would have to wait for another day to show the world all he had to offer.
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Way to go, Jocelyn. Although it's depressing that this sort of thing can happen to women on a...depressingly regular basis.
Whatever. Look I'll admit this guy is a douchebag and the cock shot was completely unacceptable, but you're making it sound like every guy who approaches a woman is a stalker. Do you suggest that we all sit around and wait for women to approach us for fear that we may come off a little creepy?
Now I understand why everyone I know who's traveled extensively says that Toronto is a hard city to date in. It's because of guys like Pavol or people like you who think all guys are like Pavol.
Yeah, you just hand a chick a card with your credentials as a lover and she goes and calls you a creep.
Who can figure broads out?
I never said that all guys are stalkers, don't get defensive. I said that this thing happens to women on a regular basis. By "this thing" I don't mean a friendly, well-intentioned man with basic social skills trying to pick you up. I mean an unwanted, overtly suggestive, profane or otherwise sexually graphic advance. It happens more often than you'd think. For example, it happened to me today. I was riding the subway, a dude was smiling at me and said hello, I smiled politely and then stared right back down at my ipod (which was not on, but it's an avoidance tactic), and when I glanced up again he was making "kissie" noises with his lips at me, and massaging his own crotch through his jeans. It's hard to explain how this can feel awful and disgusting, but it does. And I'm average-looking and was dressed for winter.
Isn't this episode a good reason for pushing on the black and yellow emergency strip? This is sexual harassment, isn't it?
* I appreciate your continued coverage of these creeps. Hopefully the coverage helps discourage their antics, or at least discourages potential students.
* This story seems a bit embellished.
Although I don't know exactly how I would have reacted I would like to think that I could have pushed the bar at this point. Showing you a picture of his penis is not acceptable.
I would love to be on the subway when someone presses the emergency bar on this shithead. And is showing women pictures of your penis supposed to make you more attractive to her or something? Especially after she's clearly said no multiple times? That's an act of aggression and this dickhead needs to be arrested.
Plus, his pickup lines are just so cringe-inducing and tacky. The best pickup technique I saw was in my local video store once. This guy walks up to a woman who was browsing the movies and hands her a piece of paper with his number on it. He says, "Hi, I'm ______, and I've seen you in here a couple of times before and I thought I'd introduce myself and give you my email in case you wanted to do something sometime. I live right up the street. Nice to meet you!" He then smiles and walks right out of the store.
What was so interesting to watch about that was that he didn't leave any time for an answer, an excuse, or any awkwardness, but totally left the ball in her court with no pressure. Her friend, who saw the whole thing, came trotting over and I eavesdropped as they talked about it. They were kinda confused, but totally intrigued, and debated whether or not she should email him (she was leaning to yes). Slick, crystal clear, relatively safe, and totally inoffensive.
That was a slick move. But, if she was attracted to him it'd be slick, if she wasn't attracted to him it'd be "creepy".
...if she wasn't attracted to him it'd be "creepy"
I find it hard to believe that a move like that could ever be considered creepy. In fact, I don't know of any other move that could be any less creepy. He's probably thinking to himself, "Hey that wasn't so hard! If I don't hear from her maybe I could try it again!"
I'm a woman and I wouldn't find that approach creepy, whether I was interested in following up or not.
Agreed - A guy who I would often be getting a morning coffee the same time as I would once approached me (after a fair bit of small talk over a few weeks) and suggested we arrange to meet to grab coffee or even dinner. I wasn't interested and turned him down letting him know I had a boyfriend. Maybe it was a bit awkward but it wasn't creepy, actually kinda sweet.
Someone else I told mentioned that it was creepy too, but I think it was entirely not creepy, especially since he took off right away before she answered, sparing her from awkwardness or a feeling like she had to answer him. I guess he figured that if she was interested, she'd email or call him, and if not, he'd go on with his life and she'd have an "out" by not feeling obligated to do anything.
In a way, I saw it as a very clear message that, hey, I'm not a stalker or a dirtbag, but I'm interested in you, and if you might be interested in me too, you can let me know and we'll take it from there. It didn't seem like he did it to everyone he met, but it did give him an incredible air of self-confidence and also showed an awareness that approaching a stranger can put them on the offensive. He seemed to disable that right away, kapow, kapow!
That being said, I don't think it would have worked if the guy didn't truly have strong self-confidence, and he didn't at all seem cocky or presumptuous.
+1 for being honest, and I agree, I don't find that approach creepy at all but I guess it depends on the woman.
Some would complain that he didn't have enough confidence to stick around and that that makes the situation a little creepy.
Who knows, I've stopped trying to figure out women a long time ago...
Maybe you'd have better luck "figuring out women" if you adopted the presumption that they are just as diverse as other genders, and therefore there is no "one rule fits all" for the whole bloody gender. What woman likes another might not. What one woman wants from men another might not. How shocking and confusing!
You need to keep in mind that there's a bit of a power differential between men and women when it comes to physical stuff. If a guy indicates that he wants an interaction with you, sexual or not, and you don't want that interaction, there can be a little threat there - whether the guy has behaved in a threatening way or not - because you don't know how he'll take the rejection or whether he'll leave you alone or whether he was being covertly sexually aggressive (and I mean aggressive in a bad way). That's the unfortunate situation; it's easy for a friendly woman to be mistaken for sexually available and flirty, and it's easy for a friendly guy to be mistaken for sexually threatening and creepy. It's amazing we hook up at all.
I think this is the same guy who said "you have no idea how desireable you are" to me in Bathurst station. Had he shown me a photo of his penis, I'd report him to both the TTC and the cops.
Let's get these guys arrested already! How many more women have to go through this?
The law is sort of weird when it comes to street harassment, it's not actionable under the Human Rights Code if it's not in a workplace or school or whatever. You might get some kind of smaller charge to stick, but some of these situations have no useful witnesses and legal bills might come into play.
For the record, when you push the bar, it sounds a sort of long-beep alarm (not as loud as you'd expect) and then a TTC employee will hunt down your train car, but the ride itself is not disrupted, so it's less likely that fellow commuters will be pissed at you.
It's not an offense under the HRC; it's actually a Criminal Code offense. Offence Tending to Corrupt Morals, s.163(2)(b):
"Everyone commits an offence who knowingly, without lawful justification or excuse, publicly exhibits a disgusting object or an indecent show."
s.169 sets out Punishment - imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.
I don't see how the law is weird, how the Ontario Human Rights Code is relevant, or why legal fees matter given that the alleged behaviour would be criminal.
While the exact scope of "public indecency" is ultimately a matter for the courts, I tend to think that:
(a) showing a photo of your genitals
(b) deliberately
(c) in a public place
(d) to someone who hasn't asked to see them
is a violation of what the community would accept and, therefore, pretty much the definition of the term.
Just wait until those new trains come into service on the TTC in 2010-those trains have cameras, and anybody pulling bullshit will get caught in the act and dealt with.
Good for Jocelyn for showing disdain for this creep. I wouldn't blame her for slapping him, knocking his iPhone to the floor and kicking it unto the subway tracks and then calling the police.
It's d-bags like Pavel that ruin it for the majority of guys who approach a woman with good intentions. This problem seems magnified in Toronto. No wonder women on public transportation here hide behind books and Ipods.
Travel to Europe and beyond and it's a different world. Smile at a woman on a subway in France and you likely won't be branded a "stalker." Strike up a conversation with a woman in a coffee line in Sydney and she likely won't think you're some perv.
There are Pavels everywhere in the world. Are Toronto women just more cynical or is our perv-per-sq mile ratio really higher then in most places?
this guy approached me at bloor station on the yonge line last night. he appeared drunk and had been eyeing me for a while. he asked me if i was single, i lied and told him no, and he said i should contact him when i was.
he gave me one of his ridiculous cards and got off the train.
pavel and this dimitri guy are twisted and disgusting. read dimitri's website advertising ways to manipulate and trick new immigrant women and tactics to achieve psychological and sexual enslavement.
i think more awareness should be made to protect other targets who are more naive than myself and the other women interviewed here so these rapists don't get away with this for any longer.
Just has the the honour of meeting Pavel last nite at Broadview Station. Totally creepy.
If it's meant to be a gag, this shtick is really not funny. The most upsetting thing is that there was no way to get rid of him.
There was a guy standing a few feet away who watched the whole thing indifferently and then commented that that was an 'interesting' way to pick up women!!