Historicist: Life in Wartime
Weekend Planner: November 7–8, 2009
Well, this is weird.
In the wake of Torontoist's impending new year's shutdown, announced last Friday, contributing editor Jonathan Goldsbie created a Facebook group called "Torontoist is dead...Long live Torontoist!" in the interest of, as he put it, "gaug[ing] interest in the site being resurrected in one form or another." (Adam Giambrone joined it!) Suggesting that Torontoist might continue if it splintered off from its current publisher, Gothamist, and was created anew, Goldsbie hastily put together a new logo for a joke site he called "Torontoest"—our current logo with an "e" slapped over the "i." Other amazing suggestions offered on the group's wall included "Torontoish" and "Torontoesque."
"Torontoest" and the accompanying logo were, of course, wishful thinking, a "fanciful suggestion" as Goldsbie later put it. But on Monday, Himy Syed—who is most known for creating Torontopedia.ca—registered Torontoest.com and began discretely recruiting contributors from the "Torontoist is dead" Facebook group. For the past few days, Torontoest.com has been promising a launch of 5 p.m. today.
Here's the problem: the site is not now nor was it ever affiliated with, approved by, or in any other way involved with Torontoist or any of its current or past staff members, Goldsbie and myself included.
Until yesterday, Syed had the site set up with the Torontoest logo (used without Goldsbie's permission) linking to the "Torontoist is dead" Facebook group, even though upon learning of the site, Goldsbie distanced himself from Torontoest in the group's "Recent News" section, writing that: "Please note that the site http://www.torontoest.com is unaffiliated with Torontoist and that no one from Torontoist (including myself) is currently involved with it."
After Gothamist's publisher, Jake Dobkin, sent Syed an e-mail, notifying him that the site was infringing on Torontoist's name, reputation, and intellectual property, and warning that Gothamist was willing to pursue legal action, Syed changed the site's name—to The Toronto Est. Then, Syed replaced the Torontoest logo with, amazingly, a link to the "Torontoist is dead" Facebook group that has now so clearly distanced itself from him.
And Torontoest even has a Flickr pool whose "About Torontoest" section simply copies and pastes from the description of our Flickr pool, so shoddily done that the word "Torontoist" has only been replaced with "Torontoest" once.
A last-ditch e-mail I sent to Syed today—requesting that he not go ahead with the project in its current form and warning him that if he did I would be forced to publicly distance Torontoist and myself from the project—was not returned. Gothamist is serious about calling in the lawyers, as Jake Dobkin told Torontoist earlier today: "If they launch, they'll definitely hear from our lawyers," and, "If they persist, I guarantee they'll spend every dollar they make and then some defending a lawsuit from Gothamist LLC."
Toronto needs more blogs like Torontoist, not less, and we're sure that Syed has the best (albeit totally misguided) intentions at heart. But imitation is not the sincerest form of flattery. Torontoist and its staff are enormously grateful for everyone's interest in preserving, resuscitating, or reworking Torontoist—and we share that interest. We're optimistic that in some form or another, in some way, at some time, Torontoist will continue. But Torontoest is not Torontoist or anything close to it; it's a lame, confused, and confusing attempt to cash in on the site that we've worked for years to make great and to trick our readers into accepting something much, much less than the real thing.
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I should also make clear that I was quite genuine in my effort to gauge interest in a potential new project from myself and other Torontoist staffers, as well as others wanting to take part. I stand by everything I wrote on the Facebook group. And something may still come of that.
But that something is not the site that is at http://www.torontoest.com.
I appreciate Himy's project, but I would appreciate it much more if he changes the name or holds it off for a bit, if only to minimize confusion.
Though to say he is "cashing in" is also a little misleading; I am very doubtful that that is true in the literal sense (i.e. he's not looking to make money, as far as I know).
Dear Gothamist, you can have the url.
Hmm, so that last comment is stating that he isn't going to develop the site?
Stay classy, Gothamist.
Further clarification:
"Torontoest" and the accompanying logo were, of course, wishful thinking, a "fanciful suggestion" as Goldsbie later put it.
That refers merely to the use of that particular name (and slapped-together logo). I still like "Torontoest" as a working title.
Himy updated Torontoest shortly after this article was published to include e-mails that I, Jake, and Jonathan sent to him in the lead-up to the launch, and that last line you quoted above, Gauldar. And the Flickr pool's been deactivated. Sigh.
What's that the Premier of Newfoundland said about AbitibiBowater and their timber leases? Something like "you get a public good while you provide jobs but lay off the jobs and the public takes back their leases"?
@Gothamist, Syed's unclassy move aside, now that you're laying off Torontonians please consider the name Torontoist abandonware. You can keep the logo - that's if the Feds and the City don't sue for the silhouettes' copyright.
Ok, is the brand worth that much to bring in the solicitors to pursue a civil action, given that Torontoist is being shut down given Gothamist's stated intent to put their money on Boston, Chicago and New York? Yes, obviously launching now is a little premature [Himy, you should see a doctor about that little problem, and don't worry it happens to all us guys once in a while] but not worth getting litigious about it.
Sheesh.
to trick our readers into accepting something much, much less than the real thing.
Uh, soon the "real thing" will be nothing. No matter how lame the imitation might be, it's hard to imagine it will be less than nothing.
Regardless of Torontoist's demise there needs to be a distinction between what, if anything, follows and the "real thing", especially if it's something started by someone with no connection to the present site.
If a new site started by someone on the staff, say Mr Goldsbie and his Mini, and he engaged many of the present contributors, then there could be said that there was some continuity and an association, whether sanctioned by Gothamist or not, accompanied by an explanation of that connection, would be justified.
Echoing others: if Torontoist is so important to Gothamist why are they shutting it down?
Gothamist should also go after Kingstonist. Not as hilariously blatant a rip-off as Torontoest / The Toronto Est, but it should be punished for not only stealing the -ist as a "city blog" but mostly for being so terrible.
Experience the awful at kingstonist.com.
I don't get this post. This morning NOW magazine unjustly slammed Torontoist's editor who they say should work for free. http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=166484
"If Topping believes he resigned on the grounds of integrity and is justified in not handing the reins to one of his more-than-willing staff, he is absolutely wrong. There are passionate and able writers in this city (and on the site masthead) who would gladly step in, regardless of what resources were available. I should know; I never received a cent running Torontoist."
This deserves a lawyer's letter response, not Himy's utopian little project.
"Echoing others: if Torontoist is so important to Gothamist why are they shutting it down?"
Shutting it down and it being an important asset are not mutual exclusive.
I always thought it was a bit ironic that a blog about Toronto was owned by distant overlords in New York, what with that whole inferiority complex thing we have going on here in TO.
Fuck Gothamist. If they can't be bothered to keep the site up, but threaten lawsuits when someone else wants to take it on - FUCK. THEM.
What makes Torontoist good isn't the URL, it's the people who write for it, and they can write the same stuff on another URL. With their own ads, and without having to share revenue with Americans.
Despite all parties misguided actions regarding this, I hope Torontoist is able to close its doors without leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
@dudeTO: That NOW article was full of a whole lot of conjecture, but I'm not sure that suggesting I am greedy for wanting to pay myself and Torontoist's staff is actionable.
@fantasygoat: the issue for me with this is not that "someone else wants to take [a new Torontoist] on," it's that someone decided to do so without everything that you said (and that I agree) made the existing Torontoist good: "the people who write for it." I agree with Miles. Again, this "Torontoest" project—the one this post is all about—had nothing to do with Torontoist as it exists now, or ever has existed, and it would have had absolutely none of the same staff. It was someone trying to take advantage of everyone's confusion around our closure and their hope for our return.
I digress, but typing email addresses like "torontoest at gmail dot com" or "username [at] site [dot] com" doesn't do shit to prevent email harvesting by spammers.
the 'aw shucks dont make me call my lawyer' vibe from the gothamist guy is sort of hilarious
The spelling is reminiscent of Dan Quayle.
The whole litigious american thing is also funny, as it's not entirely clear what they would take you to court for. "Torontoist" doesn't seem to be a registered trademark in Canada (see: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/cipo/trademarks/search/tmSearch.do), so I don't know what standing they think they have to the mark (and associated IP rights) anyway.
Having said that, "torontoest.com" is just a sad sad name, and why start with something that's such a clear imitation? (if' people are hellbent on torontoist, torontoist.net and torontoist.org are not yet registered)
Torontoest? C'mon! There's only five vowels and ToronToast is obviously a THOUSAND TIMES BETTER!!!
Echoing others...it's not what's on the table, it's who's in the chairs. Count me among the number that would be interested in seeing a resurrected Torontoist, ideally with as many of the current contributors as possible.
Dude, everyones just grieving right now...some are angry, Himy's obviously bargaining...
...me, I'm just in denial, pretending that Torontoist will still be here for me on Jan 1 :(
@travellinmatt
http://www.torontoast.com has already been claimed it seems.
I wonder what Gothamist thinks about the use of the -ist suffix. Copyrighting a suffix seems absurd.
AR: As I recall, the colour purple has been trademarked in Germany by a phone company or hydro supplier or the like; they send cease and desist letters to basically anyone using purple in a commercial capacity.
That's interesting. I wonder if you created a new shade by mixing a trademarked colour with another, whether it be yours to use. The new colour wouldn't create confusion and people wouldn't associate it with the old. In the same vein, if you applied -ist to a noun in a way not yet done by Gothamist (or anyone), for instance, Bramptonist, it would seem that there would be no problem at all.