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45 Comments

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Change We Can’t Participate In

20081104vote.jpg
It’s election day down south, and you all have a right to be jealous. Except for those lucky Torontonians with American citizenships, most of us are forced to be spectators to what seems to be nothing less than a defining moment in history. (We’d say more about that, but the importance of this campaign has become an untranscendible cliché.) And though Obama will almost certainly win tonight, and though we’re already pretty sure where this city’s—and the world’s—loyalties lie, we’re still curious: if you could vote today, who would it be for? Consider this your absentee ballot.



Photo by Joe Crimmings Photography.

Comments

  • Gauldar

    I’ve only heard the opinions of Obama, Nader and McCain but none of the others. I like independants and out of all of them I’d go with Nader. Obama would probibly be the best for the situation the US is in, but we’ll just have to see how things play out when he is prez. And if McCain wins I will have officialy no longer have any faith in the US.

  • PickleToes

    If the founding fathers could see who is about to win the election tonight, I’m sure they’d be spinning in their graves.

  • Gauldar

    I’m sure Thomas Jefferson would ask “What part of separation of church and state don’t you understand? If only Republicans acted like Republicans.

  • PickleToes

    I hope everybody using this poll to vote for Obama realizes that the Democrats are pretty much the ideological equivalents of the CPC. I don’t know why he’s getting so many votes, (Canadian) conservatism doesn’t fare to well in Toronto.

  • PickleToes

    Gauldar: I agree with you there.

  • Gauldar

    It’s called “The lesser of two evils”. There is less that can go wrong with Obama running the country. As for Canada, the NAFTA situation may get worse, but the US economy is in the shit hole and they need to get out of it some how. But Obama is the kind of guy where if he doesn’t win the election and flys to Canada you’d want to greet him with a beer and a hockey stick and ask him to run our country.

  • rek

    Nothing will change.

  • PickleToes

    Oh, come on rek, don’t be so pessimistic!

  • Gauldar

    He has a calm and cool mind, he’s charismatic and effectivly diplomatic. He’ll be twice the man Bush is (I know that’s not saying much at all). You have to admit though, the first black US president is long overdue.

  • Gauldar

    I appreciate pessimism, it means you actually care and you look for problems before they happen. Cynicism on the other hand does not have the same quality. It’s like patriotism vs nationalism.

  • PickleToes

    He has a calm and cool mind, he’s charismatic and effectivly diplomatic.
    But what about when the teleprompter is gone?

  • Gauldar

    He’ll probibly just start telling jokes. If the same thing happened to Stephen Harper, you’ll need to press the “reboot” button behind his neck.

  • taraariano

    The worst? Being a Canadian living in the U.S., and unable to vote. sad.

  • Marc Lostracco

    Yeah, because Obama has never spoken without a teleprompter over the last two years.
    /sarc

  • PickleToes

    Marc: Here’s an example of what may happen when he doesn’t: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/barack-obama-wa.html … Without casting judgement over his ideology, I have my doubts about him being all that eloquent and charismatic.

  • rocketeer

    Cracked.com has some highly comprehensive coverage of Cynthia McKinney:
    http://www.cracked.com/article_16748_6-most-insane-people-ever-run-president.html

  • Jeannelle

    PickleToes, that’s ridiculous. He makes one or two slips over the course of what length of campaign? Is that man expected to be entirely gaffe-free over 18 months of a grueling campaign?
    He was a professor for years and he manages to debate without cue cards. He speaks at countless rallies; are there teleprompters set up at each?

  • Marc Lostracco

    I don’t doubt Obama’s eloquence or charisma after two years of campaigning, primarily because my eyeballs and ears are operational.

  • PickleToes

    He was a professor for years…
    Nope, he was a Senior Lecturer. There’s a difference.
    PickleToes, that’s ridiculous. He makes one or two slips over the course of what length of campaign? Is that man expected to be entirely gaffe-free over 18 months of a grueling campaign?
    Hah, I think there were a few more than two gaffes. http://www.obamasgaffes.blogspot.com/ — here you go, here’s a website where you can read about them all! But you’ll probably be quick to discredit as simply a biased, and therefore irrelevant, conservative site.
    The site is useful, if for nothing else, because of the tagline: How many more gaffes until we can call him stupid. There was such a fuss over the course of the Bush presidency about how George was an idiot because he mispronounced a word or stuttered during a speech. But when Obama has been found to be just as awkward (on numerous occasions) its somehow regarded differently. It’s a blatant double standard used perpetrate the stereotype that right wingers are stupid, it needs to be exposed.

  • Svend

    Obama will be a breath of fresh air.
    His only problem will be turning hope into realities, he’ll need the people onside even when economic times get worse and expectations can’t be met. But I can’t think of anyone better suited for that task.

  • PickleToes

    Hah, wow, I rushed through that comment. Sorry for the grammatical errors, I guess they mean that I’m stupid because I’m not a Democratic supporter.

  • rek

    Bush isn’t considered stupid just because he talks like a stupid person.

  • Damon Kemp

    The Democratic party is the equivalent of the CPC? I think I’ve seen it all now.
    LOL and that McKinney article was classic. Once she attacked the cop in D.C. and they splashed it all over the news in Georgia, I knew she was done.

  • PickleToes

    Damon: Hah, okay, if the Democratic party isn’t the equivalent of the CPC, then it must instead be a little more right wing.

  • tak

    HAPPY APPLE DAY

  • rowrasaur

    Could you explain why the founding fathers would be spinning in their grave and not at the prolonged disregard for checks and balances and abuses of power by the executive branch?
    Like it or not, the world has now changed. If you don’t accept that as the reality, reality is going to leave you behind.

  • PickleToes

    Could you explain why the founding fathers would be spinning in their grave and not at the prolonged disregard for checks and balances and abuses of power by the executive branch?
    Read my other posts, I never said that Bush wasn’t a bad President who violated America’s founding spirit. Quite openly, I will say he is.
    Like it or not, the world has now changed. If you don’t accept that as the reality, reality is going to leave you behind.
    This rhetoric at the end is stupid. Of course I know Obama won. What am I, high or something?

  • rowrasaur

    Way to answer my question.

  • PickleToes

    Alright, let me be more specific. It’s obvious that liberty is a cardinal American virtue. Now, I understand that Bush has greatly diminished social freedom (Patriot Act, Guantanamo Bay, etc.), but now that Obama has been elected we can expect economic freedom to decrease as well. I think as long as Congress co-operates with Obama, the end result of his administration will be a Government that is larger and more invasive than ever. This is why I say that the founding fathers would be spinning in their graves.

  • Rosem

    “Economic freedom”, what is that? The freedom of the plutocrats to bankrupt everybody?

  • PickleToes

    Rosem: Isn’t that what socialism does after it destroys enterprise through taxes?

  • Rosem

    PickleToes: Regardless what you think “socialism” might do in theory, this has actually happened in capitalism – with disastrous results for millions of people. and the bailed-out bankers will still pay themselves performance bonuses this year. seems like your ideology is not allowing to actually to engage with reality here.

  • PickleToes

    Rosem: It’s not what socialism is predicted to do, it’s what socialism has done in practice (with few exceptions). And it seems odd that you would bring up the bailout with regards to the faults of capitalism. For that itself was socialism, since capitalism allows people to feel the true effects of their failure. I guess your idealism is preventing you from actually engaging with reality here.

  • Rosem

    PickleToes: You don’t make sense. It is capitalism alone that has created this ponzi scheme of credit default swaps and such – and it has now collapsed. what’s to celebrate in that?

  • PickleToes

    You are right to blame credit for the current mess that we’re in. But I don’t see how credit is an essential feature of capitalism.

  • rek

    Rosem – He doesn’t understand the concept of capitalism doing harm, so don’t waste your time. He will swap socialism in at every opportunity to explain why capitalism failed.

  • Rosem

    By: Thanks for the last word on this topic.

  • Damon Kemp

    “Alright, let me be more specific. It’s obvious that liberty is a cardinal American virtue. Now, I understand that Bush has greatly diminished social freedom (Patriot Act, Guantanamo Bay, etc.), but now that Obama has been elected we can expect economic freedom to decrease as well. I think as long as Congress co-operates with Obama, the end result of his administration will be a Government that is larger and more invasive than ever. This is why I say that the founding fathers would be spinning in their graves.”
    Doesn’t this kind of make your argument about the Democratic party being like the CPC moot?

  • David Topping

    I nominate PickleToes for president of “precipitating angry comments on Torontoist articles.”

  • PickleToes

    Damon: No, because I’m not saying that the CPC and the Democrats are the same, I’m saying that they’re similar.
    David: Awesome! Now will there be any contenders or will I be acclaimed?

  • Gauldar

    The Conservatives may be close to the Democrats, but the bulk of the CPC is there because of the Reform Party, and they act like a bunch of Neocons. True Canadian conservatives are stuck with them, and need to put out for them because they know they don’t stand a chance without them. It’s put out or get out, and that was attempted a while ago which you’ve seen and resulted in a 4 term Liberal leadership. Sorry Pickles, but Prairie Province Jesus says “Say mah name”.

  • rowrasaur

    Sorry, getting back to pickle toes’ argument of ‘economic freedom’. It sounds like you’ve taken a shameless partisan stance here with the automatic assumption that the left-of-center candidate will bankrupt the working class with useless taxes and extend their reach into people’s lives just for the sake of doing so.
    I don’t think you can blame people if they don’t quite believe the Republican Party’s promise of small, non-invasive government. (If you’d like to debate that specifically, please say so.)
    But with that said, both parties believe in ‘economic freedom’. Just as both parties recognize that certain investments have to be made as communities and as states and as a nation. I guess these investments are what you’d call socialism. In practice, this has meant paved roads, education, the military, firefighters, and police officers. Hardly failures of ideas. The fact is there are plenty of cases where investment from the government can and has yielded returns much greater than the initial sacrifice, so you should probably stop using socialism like it’s a dirty word.
    With THAT said, it is possible for a government to invest poorly, and both parties have been guilty of this in the past. In the end, your ‘economic freedom’ comes down to how responsible your government is, and if it makes wise investments in its people.
    For the future, a healthier criticism than “Democrats will spend money,” would be to show why specific investments will provide poor returns.

  • PickleToes

    …you’ve taken a shameless partisan stance here with the automatic assumption that the left-of-center candidate will bankrupt the working class
    I never even mentioned the working class. But Obama is on record for saying that he would raise taxes for the richest Americans. Obviously he won’t bankrupt them, but he’ll surely put a damper on their productivity.
    I don’t think you can blame people if they don’t quite believe the Republican Party’s promise of small, non-invasive government.
    No, I can’t blame them because I don’t believe the Republican party either.
    I guess these investments are what you’d call socialism. In practice, this has meant paved roads, education, the military, firefighters, and police officers. Hardly failures of ideas.
    I don’t know if that’s true for education. All the public institutions seem to be plagued by gigantic class sizes and slowly degrading value. If you want an American example of that, then I suggest you compare the academic prominence of the private Ivy League universities in comparison to America’s public universities; most come nowhere close to the level of excellence found in the former. I admit that there are some really terrible private educational institutions, but the accomplishments of successful private institutions seem to surpass the pinnacle of achievement in public examples. I’m sure that some of the other socialist endeavors which you have listed can be shown to be less successful than private sector ventures.

  • rowrasaur

    Indeed, Obama will undo George Bush’s tax cuts to the rich, restoring them to Clinton-era levels where people with a taxable income in excess of $357,700 would pay 39.6 percent instead of 35 percent. In the instance of someone who’s taxable income is 357,000 that’s about a difference of $17,000.
    How will they ever scrape by?
    For longer term stability, the narrowing of the gap between rich and poor will provide for greater productivity, ultimately benefitting all classes.
    ***
    Looking at Ivy League schools, I admit this is a great example of the private free market, at the same time I think we can agree that nations are better for having public schools, especially at earlier levels of education. It’s in situations like this where the private sector’s sole concern for profits isn’t appropriate, and that’s where socialism works.

  • friend68

    “I nominate PickleToes for president of ‘precipitating angry comments on Torontoist articles.’ ”
    Seconded… I think it is the angry eye-blurs of his avatar.