Haydain Neale, 1970–2009
Transit City and Transit Cities
Peeve Patrol
Newsstand: November 23, 2009
The Making of a Medley
Torontoist is following the TTC's strike, using our own reporting, other local news sources, and any other resources available to us to keep this article updated continually with the latest information. Use the TTC Strike tag to view Torontoist's other strike coverage, or view our list of online resources to see coverage, photos, videos, and ideas elsewhere.
Russell (Connaught) Carhouse, Sunday, 12 p.m. Photo by somebody_ from the Torontoist Flickr Pool.
Current Status: Strike Over
LATEST UPDATE: Earlier today, the provincial government—with Liberal, PC, and NDP support—passed legislation forcing TTC employees back to work in time for service to resume on Sunday night. Subways, buses, and streetcars are now running city-wide, and Monday morning will see the TTC running as normal, with full service. We're happy to have it back.
Last updated on April 27 at 9:00 p.m.
Spadina Station, Saturday, 6:45 a.m. Photo by Cy Goldsbie, featured in this Torontoist article.
Late on Friday, April 26, the TTC union rejected the tentative agreement that had been reached the previous weekend, with 65% of its members voting against the proposed terms. Just before 11:00 p.m. on Friday night, the union issued a news release stating that "a strike will begin as of midnight tonight." (The TTC released details of that rejected agreement at 12:30 a.m.—it had previously been under wraps.) All TTC service—save for selected Wheel-Trans service—was shut down from midnight Friday to Sunday evening.
Bob Kinnear, president of TTC employees' union (Local 113, of the Amalgamated Transit Union) said in the union's release last night that: "We have assessed the situation and decided that we will not expose our members to the dangers of assaults from angry and irrational members of the public." Kinnear defended the short notice, saying that "the reports from our members of increases in threats and abuse from passengers last weekend, after we gave our original 48-hours' notice, has left us no choice but to withdraw our services immediately. We have a legal responsibility to protect the safety of our members and so does the TTC."
At an address just after midnight, with Chair Adam Giambrone at his side, David Miller praised the original offer, calling it "fair," and made it clear that he was unhappy with the union's refusal to give 48-hours' notice, blaming Kinnear for refusing to honour his commitment. Miller also announced that Dalton McGuinty had agreed to move to legislate the union back to work, says Miller, "at his earliest opportunity."
Roncesvalles Carhouse, Saturday, 7:13 a.m. Photo by bigdaddyhame from the Torontoist Flickr Pool.
Twelve hours later, McGuinty followed through, issuing an order for Ontario Legislature to hold an emergency meeting at 1:30 p.m. on Sunday. Both John Tory and Howard Hampton declared their support for the proposed legislation.
Meanwhile, the TTC and its union returned to negotiations at the Sheraton Parkway hotel just after noon on Saturday. According to Global, "the Union is deeply split and the strike may have been orchestrated by union members seeking to embarrass or oust ATU President Bob Kinnear." Talks ended just after 6 p.m. and the TTC issued a statement at 6:19 p.m. declaring that it had considered the union's new demands, "but [that] they were significantly different from, and more expensive than what was tentatively agreed to last Sunday. The union was informed of this; they then indicated no further discussion would be productive. The release encouraged the cooperation of the public, requesting that they "please remember that TTC employees have a right to be treated with dignity. The TTC shares the public's frustration with the lack of TTC service this weekend; however, its workers' safety is paramount."
Just before 2 p.m., the proposed legislation was quickly passed (and made law by Lieutenant Governor David Onley—at the Air Canada Centre during a Toronto FC game, no less). The NDP, PC, and Liberals all supported it, though the NDP had "reservations"—they wanted to make it clear that the issue of declaring the TTC an essential service was a separate matter, to be debated at another time (and that they would not support essential service legislation should it be proposed). All party leaders, and the TTC, urged Torontonians to be nice to the workers when they come back to work.
Earlier in the day, the TTC had informed workers to show up for their Sunday night shifts if legislation passed; once it did pass, the TTC announced that it was "working hard to restore service as quickly as possible," likely within three to four hours from the announcement (so, by 5 or 6 p.m.) so it could "bring the service up to safe, normal operating standards." Monday morning will see the TTC running as normal, with full service. TTC Chair Adam Giambrone (first spotted by the Post and Spacing) changed his Facebook status to "Adam is looking forward to full service resuming at TTC TODAY if the back to work legislation passes. Likely service would be up and running by 9pm"; Giambrone reiterated his comments to media later, saying that service would resume between 8 and 9 p.m. At 4:15 p.m., one Torontoist reader spotted a bus back on the road.
Bay Station, Friday, 11:53 p.m. Photos by David Topping.
Torontoist went to Bay station just before midnight on Friday, and found the bulk of the doors leading into the station locked, as an announcement was broadcast over the TTC's PA system about the strike. Commuters who tried to beat the deadline weren't able to get inside, while many more—who hadn't heard of the strike at all—were surprised (and, unsurprisingly, frustrated). At 11:53, a TTC employee ascended the escalator to the station's Bay Street exit and hurriedly locked the last door (photos above).
The Globe and Mail broke news of the strike at 10:22 p.m. Friday night, pointing to the union's chaotic Wednesday meeting as the beginning of the TTC's end. The TTC's website was updated only minutes before midnight to alert riders to the news—and mistakenly reported that shuttle buses were running in lieu of subway service (they weren't).
Transit advocate Steve Munro also contributed his thoughts to his blog, pointing to the union's problems of internal and external communication concluding that: "I am deeply disappointed. Once again, the cause of transit is set back by events that have nothing to do with improving the system." An operator weighed in in the comments, as well, providing an as-of-yet unheard insider's view, attempting to downplay Kinnear's responsibility for the strike and, instead, blame miscommunication over the terms of the offered agreement. (When the TTC released details of that rejected agreement after the strike was called, it included a statement about one particularly contentious issue—contracting out labor for maintenance workers—saying that "There has been discussion in the media that the TTC was attempting to contract out repairs to buses under warranty in an attempt to reduce jobs at the TTC. That is not true. The facts are this: the manufacturer is responsible for certain repairs to buses that are under warranty. TTC employees currently do a substantial amount of warranty work that is charged back to the bus manufacturer." TTC General Manager Gary Webster repeated that message to the Globe.)
Just before 5:00 p.m., Giambrone updated his Facebook status to read that he "is relieved to have seen his first operating streetcar in 2 days! Thanks everyone for your understanding this last two days!" The strike may have left a bad taste in the mouths of many—the public, politicians, and TTC workers alike—but we're finally on our way. Here's hoping that the TTC remains the better way.
With additional reporting from Jonathan Goldsbie.
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That's one in the eye for Bob Kinnear.
The news is popping up on other local news sites now.
Bring on the red bar!
You know what, screw this. I'm moving to Europe. They seem to have more competence on the transit scene. The politicians, unions, and everything in between in this city are just pathetic and are really pissing me off.
How do we expect transit to ever become a viable alternative to the car if it's going to be so easy to just flip the switch and deny service to millions of people for no good reason other than greedy and selfish ones.
I thought we were going to get 48 hours notice?
Let's strike against them and ride our bikes for the rest of the year.
So anyone who may be relying on the TTC for getting home from a party/bar/work/whatever tonight is effectively screwed? Nice one, transit union.
Ronald Reagan. Air Traffic Controllers.
Goddamn it! That giant sucking sound you hear is this city going down the tubes. God, I wish I didn't have to rely on these assholes to get to work.
This is bullshit. My sister is at a birthday in North York. How the hell do they expect her to get home?
Fuck you, Bob Kinnear. Rot in hell.
According to the union when they gave 48 hours notice people didn't take it too well and yelled at drivers, so in a brilliant PR move they decided this time they would just strand people downtown at midnight instead and avoid commuter anger.
They must have confused us with goldfish, because we will remember this.
My fiancee and I are supposed to be going to the Toronto FC game tomorrow. I guess I'll have to shell out for cab fare for at least part of the journey. If the union won't agree to a deal with Miller and Giambrone in charge, what do they think will happen when the political pendulum swings back to the right? This may just be the impetus for more automation and privatization for the TTC, rightly or wrongly.
Only a group of people as out-of-touch and entitled as TTC workers would find a 3% per year wage increase with a guarantee to be the highest paid workers in the GTA unacceptable.
And for them to strand thousands of people downtown at midnight with no advanced warning? That's absolutely disgusting.
This is just dangerous. There is no way that people could know about this. I'm worried about people at parties, clubs and bars trying to get home. Leaving the subway at 11:40 tonight we encountered 3 people who had no idea why their metro passes weren't working but luckily had cell phones and enough money for a taxi. This is NOT 48 hours notice and the TTC have just lost a whole lot of sympathy from the people of Toronto.
also what is with the TTC/Union PR? Launching a campaign on the day a possible future strike is announced? Not a good idea. promising 48 hours and then not delivering also a piss poor bit of public relations and customer service. We want to like you TTC. I believe that the people of Toronto want to believe and fully endorse their public transit system but you make it so hard.
Well, it is a shame to use up the fossil fuels... but if it is a choice between riding with the greedy, rude, lazy, racist, "union" thugs (really a cartel, pretending to be a labor union), then yeah fuck it, I am driving my car!
Basically, no one should have to fear being disrespected, humiliated, and harassed in order to enjoy public services, but that is not an option in Toronto. The union has a gun to the head of the public, and so they get away with murder. When I can be treated like a human being with dignity and respect, then I may ride the TTC, but that is highly unlikely in my lifetime.
There will never be a viable and trustworthy transit system in Toronto until all the good-ol-boys there now are fired, and replaced with people who don't have a "war on the city" mentality.
Hopefully, this will be the wakeup call the city needs to finally break up this anti-democratic cartel that is extorting the most vulnerable people of Toronto!!!
I'm not sure there were many people in Toronto left who were sympathetic to the union, but they're sure as hell made sure there aren't any now.
There are going to be some really vulnerable people stuck without a way to get home tonight. If the TTC isn't designated as an essential service after this...
I see it is 12:10 a.m. in Toronto right now, and I suppose all the busses, streetcars, and trains are returning to their depots. Since TTC employees work for us, the citizens, the "public" in "public transit", I hope the government comes through with its plan to designate this as an essential service and order them back to work.
I also happen to support unions and employees right to organise. But striking is not the only collective action that can be taken to use during negotiations.
Not to mention the fact as recalled here before, that TTC employees are not exactly hard-done-by. There is no child labour, and employees can enjoy short, 8-hour days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Labor
Government labour laws protect all of us from the worst offenses. And the TTC union depriving us of mass transit for the sake of negotiation over 50 cents (or whatever) offends me.
Cheers,
Tuds
Good for the maintenance workers, they were going to get shafted in the deal. I was talking to a friend that works for the TTC who did not think they had the numbers this morning to reject the offer and when I talked to him just after 11 PM tonight he said it was a go. When they gave 48 hours the last time around I was with having lunch with TTC workers and we all said with the 48 hours notice that the drivers were at serious risk, and if we were drivers we all have started calling in sick. They have the right to strike and until it is removed they are allowed to use this tool to fight for their rights.
Hm, would I be considered a scab if I _volunteered_ to drive a bus or a streetcar? I'd love to get behind the wheel of one of those things!
Please, Acadie. Why shouldn't we outsource the maintenance department? Why should I, as a taxpayer and rider of the TTC, be forced to pay the people who work in the maintenance department above-market wages to do what they do?
Good on the TTC for trying to keep its costs on control. Shame on the union for its continued view of the public as a piggy bank to be fleeced at every opportunity.
Oh, yes, this is a bright move. Nice one, Kinnear. You thought the passengers were angry and abusive BEFORE? You have no idea.
A pox on them.
I was downtown at 11 and was gonna see a movie at 12:45. My dad calls at 11 and says the TTc just started striking at midnight so we had to high tail it home... then they pretty much stopped service at 11:30! Ugh! So I had to taxi from Sheppard to Fairview Mall.
They're definitely going about this the wrong way. They've got everyone in Toronto against them now.
And I totally ked on this... this is so dangerous and will definitely encourage some more drunk driving. Fuck the TTC.
Wow, really loving the TTC website's take on things:
A section indeed...
As a caller into CP24 just pointed this will also have a great impact on shift workers such as nurses.
For me the most distasteful aspect of this sudden strike is the fact that people won't be able to get home tonight/this morning. It's bad enough to not get to work but to not be able to get home at this time of day is totally unacceptable.
Meredi: The TTC's front page is much more blunt.
I just drive home through the city from Vaughan and it's a mess. I didn't know the TTC was on strike, and I couldn't figure out why there were so many people limping home along the sidewalk in high heels and so many others desperately trying to hail taxis. And now that I know, I realize there were no streetcars and why it felt so easy to drive along College Street tonight.
Right now I can see a load of people waiting at the transit shelter for a streetcar, obviously unaware that it ain't coming. Great, let's strand everyone wherever they are on a Saturday night—that'll really get people sympathetic to our cause!
Greediest. Union. Ever.
(and I'm pro-union! ...at least normally)
I wandered along Yonge between Davisville and Eglinton just after midnight to check out what was going on at either of those stations. No sign of any TTC personnel. No signs on the doors of the stations - only locked doors and a guy spreading the news at the corner of Yonge and Eglinton to indicate that the strike was on. Cursing and car horns filled the air, as people darted into the middle of Yonge to flag down any taxi. Stray buses going out of service were greeted with jeers.
Some more fresh + lively commentary from a few other sites, to boot:
BlogTO Thread
http://blogto.com/city/2008/04/ttc_strike_is_back_on_the_table/
Spacing Thread
http://spacing.ca/wire/2008/04/25/ttc-workers-to-strike-at-midnight/
Globe and Mail Thread
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080426.wttc0425/CommentStory/National/home#comments
Can someone explain to me why the TTC shouldn't outsource engineering/maintenance work if it saves money and the job gets done to the same standards?
Is there an argument on the part of the union engineers that standards will drop if work is contracted out?
MAKE TTC AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE!!
LET’S GO PICKET DOWN AT THE UNION HEADQUARTERS AND TTC DAVISVILLE!!!
Outrageous! AUTOMATE SUBWAYS AND OUTSOURCE CLEANING!! I definitely haven’t noticed any cleaning at St. George or any other station. If they are going to make big money they have to EARN it.
I was on the subway at the time the announcement came on, but none of us could understand what was coming over the speakers. A few dozen of us stood stupidly at the streetcar stop for a few minutes before word spread.
I'm going bike shopping tomorrow, I hope there's one left for me.
If you don't already know the song, I highly recommend downloading "TTC Skidaddler" by Stompin' Tom Connors. It is the best piece of music one can be listening to at this moment.
Bring me the head of Bob Kinnear on a pike! I've been thinking of moving back to the GTA (and Toronto proper) in June from London, ON but now I'm having second thoughts. I'd love to be making the kind of dough the operators make! Plus with full benefits and pension! And you don't even need a post-secondary education to become an operator, just a driver's licence (though sometimes I wonder about the Queen streetcar drivers when they accelerate at practically warp speeds along the Queensway straightaway pat St. Joe's.
At least in London though the buses stop at midnight you don't get idiotic strikes like the ones in TO. fucking ridiculous! Normally I'm pro-union when it comes to such things as factories and other industrial types of jobs but I've never seen more complacent, rude and lackadasical attitudes towards work ethic than that of the unionized operators of the Totally Terrible Crap!
the thing that gets me too is do they assume that everyone who rides the TTC works and lives right downtown and within walking/bike riding distance of their places of employment? what about people commuting in from the burbs?
I'm having trouble thinking of words to express how pissed off i am. I'm a student, my finals ended last week and my funds are pretty much depleted.I went out tonight to a party tonight with the last bit of booze i have and my metropass. Needless to say, if it wasn't for the word of the strike spreading i would be waiting at a street car stop for the 501 right now. If it wasn't for a friend of mine with a car, i would actually be stranded downtown because i don't have the money for a cab.
Up till now ive been sympathetic to the union during these negotiations, but i feel this was a violation of the trust that i put in the transit system. As far as im concerned the union can rot.
Absolutely disgusting, this strike by the TTC union is. It's a damn filthy tactic to cut service to unsuspecting riders at the dead of night. If the union wants to improve job safety, how about it think twice about provoking its 1.5 million riders.
The city oughta' fire the whole lot of TTC employees who don't know how good their government job is, just like Reagan did with PATCO. Fire them all and hire people who have some common courtesy and appreciation for their job.
(In all seriousness, can the city do that? And I'm usually pro-union and pro-help-workers..)
This strike will be remembered, just like the last one, as useless, annoying, and ineffective.
Wee!
Time to stop artificially inflating incomes and benefits for low/unskilled work.
Essential Service. Do it McGuinty.
I couldn't find one so I made my own:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15072197546&ref=mf
Yes, facebook groups are mostly useless, but I still think they're one step up compared to those online petitions.
What business strands their customers at midnight? One with union employees. This will not work in favour of the union. If you think the threats were bad during the 48 hour notice, just wait till you are back at work.
Why do people equate privatization with savings, look south of the border to see how well it works and even up here. It is pure delusion to think privatization saves money, the corporations that get the work make profits and the workers get shafted. Every time I hear that something going to be privatized I know eventually it will cost more than we are paying now. Think because they pay the workers less it costs less? You have a profits going to the already wealthy and not the workers. Anyone who thinks privatization is a solution is just ignorant of the facts. They gave 48 hours notice, what part of the news conference last Friday did people not hear? The deal fell through and they went on strike, it has been way longer than 48 hours, for those whom are unable to count. A strike deadline was set if a deal was not reached, they worked until the ratification vote and a deal was not reached, they went on strike long after the 48 hours, and Bob Kinnear is just an idiot.
The bashing of the concept of privatization is way off base. Private industry realizes the best way to more revenue is to increase rider-ship and cut EXCESS expense. That isn't achieved thru fare hikes and crappy service (the plan now in place). The 48 hours notice was a small gesture of respect to our citizens which they have decided we were not worth anymore. They claim they are afraid of verbal assaults but I wonder how at risk they will be come Monday when they are legislated back and have accomplished is pissing the residents of Toronto off.
This is ridiculous. I really hope this strike causes the backlash it deserves! Stranding everyone on a Friday night, I don't think there's anything worse the TTC could do
I haven't agreed with David Miller in so long... it actually feels kinda good. Ditto for McGuinty.
It’s incredible to hear all the lefty transit-advocates-types, on one day bemoaning higher fares, and on the next, encouraging people to not “trample on the rights of TTC workers.” The reality is that if the TTC outsourced all its operations, and therefore cut its labor cost in half, it would have *hundreds of millions more dollars* every year to provide quality service.
The calculation behind this is simple. Take every hour of labor the TTC uses. Let's say 9,000 people at 2000 hours/year. That's 18MM hours. Shave $15/hr (conservatively - that's pure wage savings, not including benefit reductions) off everyone's pay, you save the TTC *$270MM/year*. Privatizing, you'd also have more efficient use of labor since you wouldn't have arcane union rules specifying things like "only a maintenance employee can screw in a lightbulb", etc.
Fares would go down, routes would go up - new routes my even get built. Are the rights of 9,000 rude, overpaid people worth $270MM/year?
If other transit systems (including YRT) do it, what is there to say the TTC shouldn’t do it, also? I’ll tell you, the drivers on VIVA are far more friendly than the rude TTC employees on any day of the week.
I'd like to see some competitors to the TTC.
Of course, there is only one subway system but why not other bus companies!
tdotg,
Thank you for helping put this in perspective. I've long been an advocate of privatization, and to think that our current, unionized system is anything less than rider-subsidized welfare is simply delusional.
You can't have it both ways! We either get the service this city desperately needs, or we continue to get reamed in the name of charity.
Honestly, I just can't resent anyone the right to strike, guys.
I can't believe it's a cozy or particularly pleasant job. It may not be super physically demanding, but I imagine it's incredibly grating. I've had to work jobs where I had to deal with throngs of people all day, and I imagine it's rarely fun or particularly rewarding.
It's also weird to hear people complain about the quality of people employed at the TTC and in the next breath suggest "outsourcing" them to lower wage earners. How exactly is that going to improve anything? You think you find some ttc workers to be surly now? Not only that, the attrition rate would go up significantly, and that'd really hurt service quality too. Man, whatever, I rarely have negative experiences with the TTC. Unless it's egregious, be polite and grin it.
I'm not a fan of the strike, luckily I only had to walk home from my subway station last night (a solid twenty five minutes), after waiting fruitlessly for a bus for half an hour. Last night would've sucked for the really drunk who are also broke.
Anyways, on to Bob Kinnear:
I couldn't help but laugh. "Hey, you know what, fuck you, you assholes". I have to respect that. I've really disliked people's attitudes to ttc workers these past few days. I doubt they're going to win anyone else's sympathy with that, tho.
Now, off to my completely altered Saturday plans.
Okay, that deal was respectable. I wonder what they dislike about it.
Kinnear says that the public wasn't warned because they didn't want "irrational" people berating the drivers—I'm sorry, but that's just an unfortunate hazard of being in the service industry.
When I worked at Tim Hortons, customers would scream at me because the Walnut Crunches were too small or there was too much carrot in the carrot muffins. When I was the only male serving drinks at a racetrack bar, I'd get berated by my tables for not being female. When I worked in a restaurant kitchen, customers would scream that there weren't as many nachos on the plate as last time.
So, yeah, part of being a service employee. It's not nice to be yelled at and a lot of customers are total douchebags, but suck it up. Everyone else has to—and TTC employees make a lot more than a crappy minimum wage.
So much of what the union complains about seems to be, "wah, wah, we have to deal with the public all day," yet events like this just reinforce that image of contempt for its customers, whether that's an erroneous perception or not. Holding the general public hostage as a tool to threaten your employer seems childish and contemptuous.
And if some angry customer assaults a TTC staff member, that's what the police are for.
How hard and irresponsible would it have been to suspend service when the TTC subway normaly stops at about 130 am last night? Why couldnt they wait the hour or so to help ease the potential hardship the sudden ( yes, Acadie - there wasnt 48 hours notice - ask Bob Kinnear!) strike poses to everyone...ask the poor TTC SOB who had to barricade himself into the booth at Queesn subway last night if the sudden strike protected any TTC workers..
Really..do they expect people to not be abuseive to the TTC workers now? How stupid are these union dudes?
well said marc l!
i would add;
what would have happened if the strike started at 2am instead of 12am?
if the tcc was willing to stay open two extra hours a lot more people would have been able to get home without much trouble. yes, those that depend on all-night service routes would be put out but most of the ttc riders would have appreciated that the ttc took into consideration that their public/customers/citizenship were out friday night and would need a way to get home safely.
most likely people would still be upset but i imagine much more understanding. I support unions and am against privatization. but it is really hard for me to be supportive towards the tcc workers when they disrespect their riders.
i don't think it is too much to ask that they make some concessions for their ridership.
WE KNOW THAT THE TTC IS ESSENTIAL FOR OUR CITY!
you don't need to remind us all the time by disregarding our needs. we know that we need and rely on the ttc and its workers. and whether we show it all the the time or not we appreciate the services being offered.
is it ridiculous that you show us some of the respect that you wish us to show you?
Average hourly wage for some Toronto jobs:
Cashiers $8.65
Truck Drivers $17.90
Delivery and Courier Service Drivers $12.95
TTC Drivers and Collectors: $26.58.
Sales, Marketing and Advertising Managers $24.65
Chemical Engineers $27.05
Civil Engineers $24.85
Head Nurses and Supervisors $24.27
Secondary School Teachers $27.60
Social Workers $26.05
Crane Operators $24.40
http://www.toronto.ca/invest-in-toronto/wages.htm#background
SPOT THE DISCONNECTION IN LOGIC!!
When the TTC strike ends, I am using up my tokens, and then never riding the TTC again. I will vote against any politician who proposes increasing funding for the TTC, regardless of any other issue or party, unless the funding increase involves firing all the current employees.
It isn't just that the vehicles are filthy, it isn't just that you can't rely on the service at all - But it is that in Canada, a 21st century democracy, I shouldn't be treated like a piece of shit by the government. The TTC is the only government operation than gets away with treating people like utter shit! We wouldn't tolerate it from police, we wouldn't tolerate it from our health system, we wouldn't tolerate it from teachers, and all those workers have way more responsibility and make less money than TTC workers.
I am not a serf, I am not a peasant, and I am not going to be treated like one. It is truly disgusting and shameful how we allow the TTC to treat people, and all the crypto-fascists pretending to be "progressive" because they support a corporate cartel outside democratic control that calls itself a "Union", better wise up! Without the support of the common people, a union is nothing, and we aren't going to allow you to treat us this way forever!
The sad thing is that we all know the TTC is drastically underfunded, and we know there are problems that can only be solved by government, and we know that people sometimes treat TTC employees like crap—so the public is already going to automatically be on side with the need to make the TTC way better than it is, but then this nonsense happens, and all that built-in, automatic good will goes to shit.
People want to be on the TTC's side so badly, but they constantly make themselves hard to love. It was crystal clear already that the TTC is in dire straits, and now the union is making themselves look like selfish babies while everyone else is desperately clawing at solutions to our long-standing funding and infrastructure issues.
I'd rather the union spend their money and energy doing some serious lobbying to the provincial government and the feds—but why bother helping out your employer when your job is protected? So what if they're hemorrhaging ridership and can't even support themselves enough financially to maintain a current level of service? Your bills still get paid!
Unions are essential and often painfully necessary in the industrial and service industries, but when they're so strong that they refuse to change with the times and scale with the market, or wield their power to bludgeon the public, halt crucial economic services, threaten the jobs of innocent people, and hold a desperate city hostage in order to get quick approval of their demands, they can't be whining how people call them names or that they're not being treated fairly. Seriously.
Marc - I couldn't agree more.
Yes, the TTC is "drastically underfunded". The government should do more in this regard. I totally agree. But at the same time, the TTC would have a lot more money to use if it wasn't forced, with a gun to its head, to pay these ridiculous union salaries. Most of the people employed by the TTC would be lucky to make two thirds (if not less) than what they make right now, and I'm sure there are plenty of fully qualified people out there that could do their jobs for much less.
But no, they have the noose around the city's throat and fuck if they'll give that up. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
This used up the very last ounce of goodwill I had towards the TTC. Yesterday was one of the only days in April I didn't ride my bike to school, because I was going to be staying until the middle of the night. I was lucky and got a ride home, but if I hadn't been working on a project with one of my few friends who has a car, I would have been stranded at Queen and Sherbourne at 2am. I really don't know how I would have gotten home - I have zero money for cabs.
I feel sorry for all the people who had to work at 5am and went to bed with no knowledge of the strike. Eep.
If the TTC workers want so badly to be brought in line with other transit systems, when are TTC riders going to get the same treatment in the form of a time-based transfer? It would be really nice if people could run an errand on the way to their destination without having to pay another $2.75, like they can in any other city.
The walkout-at-midnight completely blew it for me. Kinnear says they were trying to protect the members' safety, but sacrificed the public's safety. They couldn't have waited until the subway closed, not even 2 or 3 stinking hours. They're giving the impression that the public can just fuck themselves. The backlash to come will make those 48 hours Kinnear feared look like a picnic.
Okay sure...but there was way too much carrot in the carrot muffins..seriously
Absolutely disgusted with the TTC, Bob Kinnear and all the rest.
TTC should be declared essential service. If LCBO is !! ...so can TTC
As another poster commented,if after being declared an essential service, and an illegal strike ensues, then do as Reagen did in 1981?..fire them all ,and re-hire people with the desire to work under the rules.
//and another thing starting back at leaset from the 50's and 60's, the PEOPLE of Toronto helped in a big way to PAY for the Subway etc...and now they are getting screwed !! Wish Big Daddy Gardiner was around...we need someone with a firm hand/fist, he is likely rolling in his grave....
Great thread. I love seeing all the wet liberal types freaking out when union members display some cojones for once.
"I'm all for unions... until it affects me personally!"
Also, focussing your hatred on Bob Kinnear seems weird, considering it was the rank-and-file who rejected the deal he and the union leadership negotiated.
I love Howard Hampton's comments:
"Everybody would prefer that things unfold as planned, but as you know, things unfolded in ways you don't plan."
How vague and non-committal can you get? It could be applied to anything.
Ooh, I got a soy latte instead of a cappuccino. Howard Hampton?
"Everybody would prefer that things unfold as planned, but as you know, things unfolded in ways you don't plan."
It looks like it'll rain today and I wanted a picnic. Hampton?
"Everybody would prefer that things unfold as planned, but as you know, things unfolded in ways you don't plan."
Holy crap! Aliens are attacking! Howard???
"Everybody would prefer that things unfold as planned, but as you know, things unfolded in ways you don't plan."
Riiiight.
Nice post Jaime...Hampton must be in bed with union...
Chardy: Bob Kinnear is responsible. If the deal wasn't good enough he should have held out for more or gone on strike with the 48 hours notice he promised the public. Instead he negotiated a settlement that isn't working for anyone and in his haste to make it up to his more disgruntled members, called a strike immediately instead of going back to the negotiating table or just holding off until the end of service last night.
Re: "Ronald Reagan. Air Traffic Controllers."
Bingo. Fire 'em all. Enough of this keeping the city hostage bullshit. I wonder how a different (i.e. competent) mayor of Toronto would handle this?
Would this have happened if John Tory had been elected?
Oh Chardy, you troll!
All the lazy city folk should try walking like people in the rural areas do. Toronto is a socialist hell hole and the citizens are finally beginning to experience the ramifications of the nanny state. It couldn't have happened to a more worthy city.
Pickletoes -- that's an interesting statement, considering rural people are way more likely to have vehicles than city people. Every suburbanite I know drives and complains when they have to walk more than a few blocks at a time. Nice try, though.
C. Musgrave: I admit the part about walking was perhaps unfounded but I was using it rhetorically. What I meant is that people in rural areas (not so much the suburbs I must point out) don't rely upon the government to give them rides around. They either walk or drive. If Torontonians were willing to stand on their own feet instead of looking for someone else to ferry them around then perhaps the strike wouldn't be so much of an issue.
"They either walk or drive. If Torontonians were willing to stand on their own feet instead of looking for someone else to ferry them around then perhaps the strike wouldn't be so much of an issue."
???
Public transit is part of the infrastructure of a city. Should we all get cars, making our already horrible traffic and smog even worse? Am I supposed to walk 3 hours so I can get to my parents' house? This is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.
Am I supposed to walk 3 hours so I can get to my parents' house?"
I'm sorry, heaven forbid you would have to walk somewhere. I must be pretty stupid to even suggest that you exert yourself a little.
Pickle, you know your argument is totally ridiculous. Comparing a rural town with, um, next to nothing in it, consisting of a few square kilometers to a city the size of Toronto is like comparing apples to oranges. People walk a lot here. A LOT. However, you seriously can't expect people to walk all the way across a city to get to work. Try coming up with something more logistically sound next time.
First of all Pickletoes, you make no sense. You are not the first rural/suburbite who has used a similarly unfounded argument on behalf of the union. You clearly have no clue what it's like to live in a city where 1.5 million people rely on public transit, so until you do please stop.
I could go on about the irresponsibility of the union walking out at the last minute, the fact the TTC workers are already well compensated, and the lack of any official statement from the union leadership.
What really struck me was watching CP24 interviewing one of the union members who supported the walk out while driving out of a parking lot in his car.
Must be nice ya prick.
"I'm sorry, heaven forbid you would have to walk somewhere. I must be pretty stupid to even suggest that you exert yourself a little."
You are pretty stupid to suggest that a 3-hour walk is a logical alternative when a 1/2 hour TTC ride isn't available.
I just walked 45 minutes to get home from work...luckily it's a day when I have the time, and I wanted to save on cab fare as I have places to go tonight...if I can even get there.
The colour coded status bar thingy here is just adorable. That is all. K THX BYE. :)
Okay then Jen, don't walk. Take a taxi, or better yet buy a bike if you can't pay for a car.
I'm not with the transit union here. In fact I'm generally pretty anti-union. I only suggested that this strike wouldn't have been such a big deal if people relied upon methods of transportation that aren't reliant upon circumstances out of the individual citizen's control.
Whoever mentioned that a rural community isn't comparable to a city is right. If anything its harder transportation wise to live in a rural area than a city. The things we need to travel back and forth to are often further away from each other in a rural area than the same things in a city. But still (aside from some select GTA communities) we manage without public transit.
Heaven forbid that your ability to get around becomes the individual's responsibility.
Pickletoes you seem to forget that we PAY for the service so it is not a matter of "responsibilty of transportation".
If you want to make that argument then we should be given the choice of a private service. The fact that you do not have public transportation in your rural area isn't about whether you want it, but that you don't need it in a a low density area.
Again, please stop, you're out of your element here.
I can and do resent the right to strike when it exploits a third party that has no influence in the negotiation process.
8 years ago the York U TAs went on strike and ran picket lines at all road entrances to the campus. I, being a Seneca student (Seneca@York campus) had absolutely nothing to do with the York administration, the TAs, or how they negotiated. All the same the picket lines meant the TTC couldn't run buses up to the school and I had to walk half an hour twice a day to get from the nearest stop to class and back, for weeks.
When the TTC strikes, we're all in that position. And since the unions leadership isn't subject to our input, we can only put pressure on the city (while still being pissed off at the unions).
A third class indeed.
Are there any picket lines for this strike?
Or are they too cowardly to face the wrath of the public they just kicked in the groin?
badbhoy: That's an interesting argument but you're not really taking responsibility. You're just paying someone to do something that you should be doing yourself.
So you are suggesting that 1.5 million people should walk for three hours or drive on already congested streets so we feel "responsible" for our own transportation? Is the government we vote and pay for(and their union employees)not responsible for anything in our lives? Did you pave and maintain the road you drive your pick-up truck on?
"So you are suggesting that 1.5 million people should walk for three hours or drive on already congested streets so we feel "responsible" for our own transportation?"
badbhoy: Not necessarily, but if the union can hold the whole city by the balls like that then maybe its time for individuals to try harder to make some contingency plans.
In Addendum: Don't stereotype me either. I don't drive a pick-up truck.
I agree that contingency plans should have been made . They should have been legislated the TTC to be an essential service earlier this month but there may have been legal issues with doing that before a strike.
That being said, you still did not address my other questions. I will let it go since you still clearly cannot comprehend the stress that a public transportation strike puts on a large city.
The fact is, just like you expect plumbing, road work, and health services in your small town, we expect (and PAY higher taxes for) public transportation in Toronto.
In addendum: if you insist on being a stereotypical rural citizen, I will do the same. For the record, I have only lived in Toronto for 2 years. I grew up in a car dependent suburb and spent another 2 years living in a rural town in Scotland.
"Is the government we vote and pay for(and their union employees)not responsible for anything in our lives?"
Ideally I don't think the government should be responsible for anything but the most fundamental services that prevent violence directed against one individual by another. Realistically speaking, however, the government has obviously taken on additional responsibilities and billed the citizenry accordingly. I don't think anybody would say that they shouldn't provide the people with those services that have been paid for. But as I've previously stated the people of Toronto should have been more prudent and had alternatives so that this wouldn't have really been an issue.
"The fact is, just like you expect plumbing, road work, and health services in your small town, we expect (and PAY higher taxes for) public transportation in Toronto."
I don't expect health care, I'd rather there be some sort of private system or at least a mix of public/private. When it comes to roads or a sewer system I would probably suggest some sort of pay-per-use system although admittedly I haven't thought too much about the issue.
I don't like the idea of a public transit system, but that's relatively inconsequential to what I've been saying. I'm not focusing my criticism at the existence of the TTC so much as I am people's reliance on it to the point where they haven't taken time to consider alternatives.
Yeah, don't bother responding to ole' PickeToes there - not understanding the need for public transit in a city shows a complete lack of grasping the situation. But yeah, good for him that he drives everywhere. I assume based on his arrogant beleif in self-transport determinism he doesnt use the roads where he lives, because gasp! Someone else is responsible for thier upkeep....
wardnikoff: Yeah, that's a fun little red herring to use. I guess I'm just a dumb, ignorant, out of touch red neck because I think a little differently. Comrade, I apologise for not falling line.
The union's website's disk seems to be full: wemovetoronto.ca.
I had to take a cab from downtown last night. I think the TTC really ruined their image last night. They're advertising about how valuable to employees are, and how they're trying to move the city. I'm sure if spitting on a TTC employee wasn't illegal, there would of been a lot of spit flying through the air last night.
Why hasn't anyone placed posters up on the subway station doors, expressing their grief and concern over the union's greed?
i think that the TTC union douches need to understand that few, if any, Torontonians support them.
the TTC should just fire all of their overpaid employees and start from scratch.
$25/hr to give change and tokens....my god...
Why are they negotiating in Richmond Hill? Seems sad that the Toronto Transit talks need to happen in another municipality. Speaks volumes about how they feel about us.
What about that (in)famous pizza order we all heard about for days? the money didn't even go to Toronto business.
36 hours and counting...
To 95, it's a bit hard to get around the city right now to do such a thing.
Oh and Pickletoes: how much is your rural house/dwelling? Many more Toronto residents could afford their own vehicles if their cost of living was lower (as perhaps yours may be). Just a thought.
Christ PickleToes, you shouldn't be surprised when people treat you like an out of touch red-neck when you call Toronto a lazy Socialist hell-hole.
You're flattering yourself if you think we assume you're dumb and ignorant because you don't fall in line. We think you're dumb and ignorant because of your dumb and ignorant statements.
The government isn't at fault for providing services to its citizens. Public transit happens to be of vital importance in any city as large as Toronto. You are ignorant to think otherwise. The city is far too large to navigate by walking everyday, and many people (who work just as hard as you) (1) aren't as fortunate to be able to drive everywhere and (2) choose not to drive as a way of being environmentally responsible.
"I don't like the idea of a public transit system" - pickletoes
You should probably stop talking now because you don't seem to understand much.
Pickletoes, sorry I haven't been able to respond to your post. I was employing your viable alternative of walking the streets of Toronto for the last 12 hours.
"Okay then Jen, don't walk. Take a taxi, or better yet buy a bike if you can't pay for a car."
LOL...as I already explained, I walked because I was saving my cab fare for later that night. I'm not exactly rolling in dough and to shell out $5-$15 every time I want to go somewhere would leave me poorer than I already am.
I live downtown and my life exists within a small radius most of the time...I walk everywhere, even in winter. And I do have a bike but when you add up crazy drivers and lack of bike lanes, the high amount of bike theft and bad weather (what if the strike happened in winter), a bike isn't always the best option either.
If you don't understand big-city living, maybe you need to step out of this conversation. Although I suspect you're enjoying the trolling.
Pickle - if Toronto didn't have a public transit system, it likely would've sprawled out to the point that you'd be engulfed in its suburbs by now.
Are they dumb enough to risk an illegal strike?
I would like to propose that when the strike is finished that we all BOYCOTT the TTC for at least one day.
Poster the subway doors and bus shelters a few days in advance to let all riders know (then people could make alternate carpool/bike plans to get to work). With a bit of media spin, the word could be spread damn quick - especially in light of everyone's mood.
It would be good to send a message out to the TTC.
Without riders - they have nothing.
During the last snowstorm I hitchiked from Etobicoke to Yonge St. every day. Ninety percent of cars driving past are half empty so you get a lift pretty fast.
..and yes TTC needs to be designated as an essential service.
Remember everyone.. (I remember reading this somewhere and thought it was a great idea) A nice, SAFE, non-violent rally would be to PAY IN PENNIES. It's a valid currency. Let's put their lazy overpaid-asses to work!
Get out those lil baggies and dump your 275 pennies :D
4:15 - after spending some time watching people hang outside the subway station (eagerly awaiting a renewal of service), i just saw the first bus leave to run north on pape ave.
yay!
I just heard a street car rumble by Queen and Bathurst.
Subways are up and running now, too.
Everything is going again. I'll miss seeing more people biking on the street, and being able to catch their wind.
Are they dumb enough to risk an illegal strike?
Considering that their last strike was illegal: yes. Yes they are.
Just be thankful you aren't living in Ottawa, their current month long transit strike isn't even noticed by McGuinty even though he's from there. The union rejected the latest offer and sees this as a reason to celebrate.
Our strike was on a nice sunny weekend, yet we got noticed.