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Snappy Answers: In Which We Get a Little Philosophical

Snappy Answers runs every Saturday afternoon. Send your questions, be they tough or trivial, to snappyanswers@torontoist.com.
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Hi. I’m an immigrant all the way from the depths of third world South America. First of all I would like to say how blessed I feel to be able to live in a such a great country like Canada and such an awesome city like Toronto. I love this country and I love this city just as much or even more than I love my own home country; which takes me to my question: Why is there such an awful lack of patriotism and love for Canada amongst Canadians themselves? It just sometimes seems bizarre to me that most of the time even I display more patriotism for Canada and Toronto than everybody else who is originally from here.
—Javier


Dear Javier,
The thing about Canada is, no one is “originally from here.” (Except, of course, native Canadians, and they constitute less than four percent of the population.) In this newest of worlds, we are all, relatively speaking, immigrants. Even after two, three, ten generations, most of us still derive our cultural identities from the old countries, from retold stories and revisionist histories, from mother and grandmother and great-grandmother tongues.
And most of us don’t see our subsequent lack of Canadian patriotism as all that awful, really. In fact, the polar opposite is true. We take great national pride in not having great national pride, which is to say, in not being American. Our leaders don’t wear cowboy hats. Our flags only really get waved during Olympic hockey. Our children are not learning about the Canadian empire.
Canadianness, then, is a negative: it is what we are not. What we are has been argued, imagined, second-guessed, and constitutionally wrangled to pieces. Canada is a multiple-choice question to which the correct answer may always be “all of the above.”
Or, if you live in Toronto, it might just be “who cares?”—because what we may lack in national pride, we more than make up for in local egotism.
You may have yet to see it, but we believe Torontonians love Toronto just as much as New Yorkers (heart) NY and Parisians aiment Paris. When we hate it—when we complain virulently about the traffic on the Parkway, the gentrification of Parkdale, and everything in between—it is really because we love it. It is a city of small towns, in which no one is separated by more than two degrees of Facebook friendship; a city of big dreams, but none too big for our heads; a city of clashing colours and flashing lights, of sights and scenes, parties and protests, money and art and “art.” Awesome is right. We’ll never stop feeling that awe.




I know Kingston Road is called “Kingston Road” because it leads to Kingston, Ontario, and “Dundas Road” leads to Dundas, Ontario. But why is Danforth Road called “The Danforth”?
—Myla

What, you’ve never heard of Danforth, Ontario?
Actually, Danforth Avenue (not Road) was named after American contractor Asa Danforth, who was hired by the Upper Canada government to construct the east-west artery in 1799. He didn’t stick with the project, but his name did, and the Don and Danforth Plank Road Company completed “the Danforth” in 1851.




Why is the parking lot between OCAD and Grange Park still a parking lot? One of the reasons given for Will Alsop’s tabletop design was to allow access to The Grange from McCaul. Never happened. Why not?
—Paul

From The New Yorker, October 2007:
The new building was to occupy the parking lot, but the neighbors in the apartment block objected to losing their park views and the college was eager to avoid confrontation. Alsop met with the neighbors and someone suggested lifting the addition into the air to allow views under it. “I don’t want to sound like some Communist here, but ordinary people do have some good ideas,” he told me recently. “Architects left on their own can’t break away from their preconceived notions.”

And speaking of preconceived notions, what makes you so sure that parking lot is really a parking lot? Come on, it’s at OCAD. It’s probably an art installation in a fourth (or sixteenth) year thesis on the impersonality of personal space.

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Comments

  • naddie

    You may have yet to see it, but we believe Torontonians love Toronto just as much as New Yorkers (heart) NY and Parisians aiment Paris. When we hate it—when we complain virulently about the traffic on the Parkway, the gentrification of Parkdale, and everything in between—it is really because we love it. It is a city of small towns, in which no one is separated by more than two degrees of Facebook friendship; a city of big dreams, but none too big for our heads; a city of clashing colours and flashing lights, of sights and scenes, parties and protests, money and art and “art.” Awesome is right. We’ll never stop feeling that awe.

    My sentiments exactly. Very well written!

  • quest

    Our leaders don’t wear cowboy hats. Our flags only really get waved during Olympic hockey. Our children are not learning about the Canadian empire.

    Yes he does. No they don’t. Yes they are.

  • quest

    Oh, and I’m first generation Canadian, and identify most strongly as Canadian. :)

  • antiboy

    I want to e-marry Sarah!

  • Dipwick

    Wow, that answer about the OCAD parking lot sucked.
    The parking lot is owned by the Art Gallery of Ontario. I get the sense that there’s no love lost between OCAD and the AGO, so I assume that AGO executives are in no hurry to give up their parking spots because OCAD says so.

  • andrew

    Canadian nationalism, and thus patriotism, is a complex issue. I think the Canadians you will meet in Toronto are less “patriotic” about Canada than rural Canadians – probably this holds true for citizens in dense metropolitan centres the world over. Generally, I think some of it is historic in that we are a city comprised of people from all over the world, and we have a very confused [in a good way] concept of who “we” are. Culturally, as English Canadians, we’ve inherited a bunch of English and Scottish laws and social mores [like our ridiculous prudishness and Calvinist ideas about fun] that proscribe against any kind of public display of pride that isn’t restrained and dignified. In some textbook about Confederation I picked up at work, the authors posit that Canada is a deliberate nation, one of the few in the world, created out of debate and not from violent separation from its colonizer. In addition, because the European conflicts in the 18th and 19th centuries were a large drain on the British empire, the French were to be accomodated in the new Canada rather than completely subsumed into the population, therefore laying a groundwork for a nation that provided more of a legal than socio-cultural framework [Chinese-Canadian head taxes and horrible treatment of First Nations notwithstanding].
    Also, because as a population we are crammed into small spaces separated from each other by vast distances, we have little in common. Toronto residents have far more in common with people from New York city than they do with people in Vancouver.
    Like Propagandhi, I think nation states are a bad idea. Generally I’m pretty comfortable with our lackadaisical attitude about trumpeting our identity, but I’m glad Javier loves living here so much.

  • peregrina

    Like Propagandhi, I think nation states are a bad idea. Generally I’m pretty comfortable with our lackadaisical attitude about trumpeting our identity, but I’m glad Javier loves living here so much.

    I agree. I’m an immigrant as well and although I’m quite happy to be Canadian and proud of my new home, I love the unassuming way Canadians show their attachment to their country. I think history shows us that nationalism and too much national pride is never a very good thing. I think this might be the reason why Canada can accept so many immigrants with minimum conflict…

  • ronotoe

    being canadian means so many different things to so many people across this country (west coast, east coast…quebec!) but here in toronto my hope is that we take full advantage of our ‘diversity’ and integrate it into the arts. (film, music, whatever.)
    then we’ll have something to be truly proud of…

  • DJ

    Actually, Sarah, there is a Danforth Road. Please do check some maps. :)

  • DJ

    Although “the Danforth” does refer to Danforth Avenue.

  • David E

    Javier,
    We ask only that people judge us for who we are and what we do. Patriots ask to be judged by what they say.
    Talk is cheap. Action is the answer.
    We are a modest and unassuming people most of the time. We prefer to be like that. Civility and generosity to every person are our guiding principles. Flag waving is just showing off and doesn’t suit us except in hockey playoffs.
    Simply by having a respect for every person and respecting him or her is our customary practice.
    It’s all in a day’s work.
    Our modesty makes us great.
    The humble shall be made great and the great shall be humbled.

  • David E

    Regarding OCAD and AGO.
    I read several years ago that each entity owned property that the other entity wanted. In other words, some of the AGO land is situated where OCAD would best benefit and the OCAD land is situated where the AGO would best benefit.
    It isn’t simply a matter of sale between the two parties because there may be estates and bequests that impede the sale.
    A similar impediment prevented the Eaton Centre from taking over the entire block from Queen up to Dundas. The Reitman estate would not allow the sale of some property to Eaton’s for the longest time.
    Maybe you should ask each entity if this condition still exists.

  • Rachel Lissner

    I see more Canadian flags when I am in Canada than when I am (ahem) back home in the States. I mean, in Canada, people actually wear the flag and if someone did that in the States, people would snicker or would say “Ya’ll have some really nay-ce shirts.”
    P.S. In other countries, multiple choice is called “American style.” The things you learn from living abroad…

  • Carrie M

    Wow, that’s interesting. From my perspective, I’d say that I see the American flag waaaay more in the States than I see the Canadian flag here, and way more Americans wearing the stars & stripes. I can’t recall seeing anyone wear the maple leaf, unless it was a hockey/sports jersey.
    You’d probably see more Canadian flags while traveling abroad than other countries’ flags, particularly on backpacks…even some Americans wear them! We do have more national pride when we’re outside of the country than at home. At home we just seem to have more of an inferiority complex, unfortunately.

  • Lauren1981

    Don’t listen to them, Javier. You are very correct to describe the lack of patriotism in Canada as “awful”. And the reason is that many Canadians simply take this country for granted. Like Americans, we live in one of the freest and most tolerant societies in the world—but unlike Americans, we don’t stand up and celebrate the qualities of freedom, human rights and equal opportunity that make this country special. Instead we celebrate a flimsy concept known as “multiculturalism” which means we celebrate immigrant cultures more than our own culture…to our own detriment. But I, for one, am a proud flag-waving Canadian who feels blessed to have been born in this great nation and I wish more of my peers showed the same enthusiasm.

  • David Topping

    Flags are, like all other symbols, completely empty until people give them meaning. (And since it’s a public symbol, it means different things to different people.) Waving or wearing a flag doesn’t make anyone a patriot, just as not waving or wearing one doesn’t make anyone any less of a patriot.

  • WannaBinToranna

    Flags. Feh.
    Although, when I visit Canada, I do feel more of a sense of pride (and relief) when I cross the border and see the maple leaf. Coming back to the US I get depressed when I see the US flag.
    For too many people, the last thing they saw when they died or saw their families beaten or killed or villages and homes bombed and burned was a US flag.
    It’s a worthless rag to me. I refuse to salute it or pledge to it.
    I’m a Canadian in my heart.
    Agree 100% with Mr. Topping.

  • rek

    Tooting your own horn too often leads to arrogance; arrogance leads to decadence; and decadence leads to the dark side decay.
    We have it pretty sweet here, but we’re also not consumed by a national mythology preventing us from acknowledging our flaws, or perpetuating a culture of entitlement.
    I don’t believe in the Canadian inferiority complex hypothesis. I would say a country swollen with rah rah rah and endless flag-waving is trying to cover up deep insecurities. A country that doesn’t take every opportunity to reinforce a national mythology within its own borders is just content to be what it is.
    On the other hand, might that just be “rah rah rah, our humility makes us the best!”?
    (I really hope the strike tags come through.)

  • rek

    Dammit. Imagine the dark side is struck out. The preview showed the strike tags working…

  • WannaBinToranna

    We have it pretty sweet here, but we’re also not consumed by a national mythology preventing us from acknowledging our flaws, or perpetuating a culture of entitlement.
    - Man, you said, agree 100%.
    People in the US waving flags and acting like this is the greatest country in the world and we’re better than everyone else…meanwhile, our country is denying healthcare to it’s vets and children, sending it’s jobs overseas, scandals, corruption…and all I get when I say what’s wrong with this country is some idiot saying, “Hey man, love it or leave it” (in which, if I could find a job in Canada, I would).
    If the US is the greatest country in the world, then the world is f**ked.

  • Gloria

    I’m puzzled why the qualities of freedom, human rights, and equal opportunity should make us so terribly special that we must stand up and celebrate it. It seems silly to distinguish ourselves from the rest of the world with characteristics we share with … France? England? Most of Western Europe?
    I’m thankful for living in a country that is more progressive than some, but sometimes I think falling prey to pride and celebration only obscures our realization of how how far we need to go (because definitely, we have our enormous flaws).
    Wanting to improve national social conditions, I think, is one of the best sentiments of patriotism, because it shows you care and want the best for your fellow citizens.

  • WannaBinToranna

    I guess it’s the equivalent of walking through a prison, hospital or down an alley and pointing to prisoners, patients or homeless people and saying, “See, at least you’re not THEM!”
    But, wasn’t it some of our policies that PUT them there?
    Another “favorite” quote… “freedom isn’t free”.
    This one is the most ridiculous…
    So, how much does it cost then? When it comes to the war, how many lives? A thousand, ten thousand, a million, someone else’s kid, your kid? For people who were so pro-war in the beginning, but are anti-war now…I ask them, what number of caualties did it for you? Did you change your mind at a thousand? Two thousand? Did you say, OK, when it hit’s 3,000 THEN I will be against the war. All those flag-waving, Toby Keith fans from 4 years ago who were calling me a “wuss” or “unpatriotic”, and are now against the war can kiss my ass.

  • WannaBinToranna

    Also, if you look at our culture (USSA), for some reason, despite facts that contradict it (ie. test scores, healthcare, mortality, happiness, homicide/suicide rates) Americans feel the absolute need to convince ourselves that we our, or have to be Numero Uno in everything.
    We can never admit someone kicks the shit out of us in anything.
    Iraq is kciking our ass, Iran will kick it harder…but it’s still Go USA!

  • Ben

    Dammit. Imagine the dark side is struck out. The preview showed the strike tags working…

    Yeah, they (Gothamist?) should fix the problem where the preview uses more HTML than what actually gets saved.

  • David Topping

    I’ve passed a note along to Gothamist! Thanks.