July 22, 2007
Queen's Park Media Analysts Are So Ghetto
The Star reports this morning about U of T political science student Evon Reid (pictured). Reid applied for a job at Queen's Park as a media analyst earlier this month and was waiting to hear back when an e-mail from Aileen Siu, a part-time contract employee (whose contract is probably about to end prematurely), landed in his inbox on Friday morning. Siu's e-mail simply read: "This is the ghetto dude that I spoke to before."
The e-mail was forwarded from Siu to another employee, but, according to The Star's original article, was copied to Reid accidentally. While no-one from the cabinet office where Siu worked had met with Reid face-to-face, they had spoken to both Evon and his Jamaican-accented mother over the phone.
Unsurprisingly, heads are rolling: Siu is insisting that the e-mail was "internal," was not about anyone "outside [her] circle of friends," and that "[she] don't even know what nationality he is," though, according to The Star, she "acknowledged that the term ["ghetto"] was negative." Cabinet office manager Craig Sumi called and apologized on Reid's machine, and now Giles Gherson, the cabinet officer's deputy minister of communications and, coincidentally, The Star's recently-fired ex-Editor-in-Chief, is trying to arrange it so that he can apologize in person.
Reid (pretty far from whatever negative connotation of "ghetto" Siu was talking about—he has a belt clip for his Blackberry, after all) tried to avoid the "racism" angle today, telling The Star that "this isn't a Confederate flag in a pickup truck...but it's the kind of private view that affects decisions about someone like myself in the job market."
Of course, politicians have jumped on the opportunity to treat Siu's comment exactly like it was a Confederate flag in a pickup truck. PC leader John Tory is insisting that Dalton McGuinty apologize himself for the mistake, with NDPer Paul Ferreira agreeing and urging "sensitivity training" for all government employees. The correct response, though? Keep Reid's name in the hat for the media analyst job, ditch Siu or—if she actually doesn't think she was doing anything wrong—give her sensitivity training, and, ya know, try to avoid hiring people who think that "black" and "ghetto" are synonyms. A low-level part-time contract employee saying something extremely stupid is not an example of a systemic problem of racism in the Ontario government. In fact, it's the kind of situation to which Hanlon's razor applies perfectly: never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
UPDATE (07/25, 8:00 p.m.): Aileen Siu has resigned.
Photo of Evon Reid from his Facebook profile.
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I interviewed for this position about two or three weeks ago.
Not being a polisci student and my only knowledge of Ontario politics being whatever i get from perusing the Toronto Star, i was pretty confident i was not going to get the job.
However, when i was interviewed i was absolutely dumbstruck by Ms. Siu's lack of professionalism. The interview process was basically Ms. Siu and her colleague, who both seemed to be recent grads themselves, and their supervisor who seemed like d a legitimate government employee of several years. They made it clear that i would have to impress all three in order to get my second interview, and questions were shared equally between the three.
Anyway, the problems came when their supervisor had to leave half way during the interview, and Siu and her colleague began joking around. Hey, i love jokes, initially they were doing a great deal to put me at ease, as i'm generally very tense in an interview. But they just kept going with it to the point where Siu was pretending to collapse drunk on the table and all focus was taken off asking me questions and trying to find out if i was the right person for the job, which was why I was there. When the questions did return to me, at least one of the questions ask was an illegal on as set forth by the ministry of labor, or however if in charge of making such guidelines (see, very under qualified for the job.) The question asked was "How do you plan on getting to work each day?" which as innocent as it sounds, cannot be asked in an interview situation. Now, should not the Ontario Government be following the same rules as its given all other HR departments in the province?
And lame personal experience aside, my question is is Ms. Siu actually is such a low level contract employee, why would she be partially in charge of the important responsibility of interviewing and hiring and firing? How does someone who is unprofessional, with a low-level contract, and with such an obvious lack of discretion ("ghetto dude?" seriously?) get to the point where she has a great deal of responsibility? I just don't understand it.
It's interesting that the Star article mentions "Giles Gherson, deputy minister of communications in the cabinet office," without also mentioning that he's the paper's recently-fired editor-in-chief. Also note that the article has no byline, whereas yesterday's piece was credited to staff reporter Linda Diebel.
And I disagree with you that "Reid tried to avoid the 'racism' angle today." I interpret his remark to mean that private attitudes can be just as racist and harmful as more overt expressions of White Supremacy.
Was this a less overt expression of White Supremacy by Ms. Siu?
It should also been mentioned that Aileen's stripper name is Dallas Sweettower.
[This comment originally linked to the Facebook profile for an "Aileen Siu," but likely not the Aileen Siu. Please see further discussion below—David]
I mistakenly used the word "more" in that sentence, guest. Please pretend I hadn't typed it.
I mean, if I really wanted to, I could argue that Ms Siu's comment was indeed a symptom of "White Supremacy" (here being used in the broadest sense, to refer to the societal context and unspoken and mostly unacknowledged ideology rather than a literal belief in the superiority of Whites), but in this case I simply misworded the sentence.
Give me a break. It may not be "of a systemic problem of racism in the Ontario government" but it is a of a systemic problem of racism in the population at large. And guess what? Members of the population make up the government.
Clearly he was rejected for the job because of his race. How can that help you self esteem? He's an honours student yet it still being dismissed because he's black. Siu should be fired immediately.
"Clearly he was rejected for the job because of his race."
I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way -- at this point -- that you can say that that's "clear"; to the best of my knowledge, they haven't even chosen to candidate who's going to get the job yet. Who's to say that there weren't other, more qualified applicants? Obviously, this Siu mess throws a wrench in the whole hiring machine, but you can't make an assertion like that based on the evidence out there so far.
Also, a nit-picky point: everyone pursuing an undergraduate degree at U of T is technically an "honors" student; the university no longer offers non-honors Bachelor degrees. (The only exception is if your CGPA is not high enough when you intend to graduate, in which case, I believe, you can choose to accept a regular B.A. or B.Sc.) Not to discount anything that Reid's done, but it's a distinction that no-one has made yet.
My informed hypothesis is that this event can be blamed on top-posting, as so many E-mail ills can. People who top-post do not understand E-mail or their E-mail software (typically a Microsoft product, including the user-hostile Outlook). They have no real understanding even of what simple fields like To:, Cc:, and Bcc: really do. On numerous occasions I have had top-posted E-mails about me sent to me. I always call them on it, and they never ever understand what they did wrong.
Government employees, whether “contract” or not, are inveterate top-posters. Lesson to be learned here: If you have to commit apparently racist remarks to a permanent and infinitely replicable medium, learn how E-mail works. Your way isn’t the right way.
I wonder if Siu is going to be doing some job-searching of her own in the near future...
joeclark: My informed hypothesis is that the average person (myself included) has no idea what you are talking about, and by being condescended to, will have no desire to find out either. This is a general interest blog - don't assume we have any clue about the techno-esoterica you are lecturing us about and why we should care.
After being bugged by Joe Clark a number of times about my "top-posting," I finally looked up what it is. And he's right.
While I'm certainly not the hard-liner he is (I believe there are many instances when it is useful or justified), I agree that replying to a message while appending the entire original message underneath is usually unnecessary and needlessly cluttering.
"Top-posting" isn't really the issue here; if this e-mail remained private, its contents would be just as problematic, if lesser-known.
Great reaction quote by Reid, and good commentary from Topping. It's always nice to see when racially charged issues are discussed with some nuance. Ignorance attitudes are a much bigger problem than blatant racism in Toronto today.
Top-posting mistake or not, Ms. Siu is responsible for anything she says or writes, and writing it in email just leaves evidence. Any idiot, even she, should know that.
umm, why are you assuming he didn't get the job because he was black? If Ms. Siu was talking about him to someone else it might have been because he was being considered for the job.
Guest #16, nowhere in my post or in this comment thread -- other than the guest posting in the sixth comment that I already replied to -- has anyone said that he didn't get the job (whether because he was black or not). The job, from what I've heard, hasn't even been filled yet, so it's impossible to assert anything...
That said, "ghetto dude" isn't exactly a compliment for an employer to say about you when you're going through the hiring process, so I'd be a little reluctant to claim that Siu's e-mail forward was a good sign for Reid's chances.
McGuinty called Reid yesterday to apologize.
Throw Siu to the wolves and move on.
The last paragraph from the latest star article is really worth paying attention to:
Another civil servant Craig Sumi described Siu to the Star as "low level."
"She may be very low level to them but she was given a lot of responsibility," said Reid. "She was my only link into the cabinet office so she was very important to me."
Thanks, David, for pointing out pretty much every student coming out of U of T will be "honours." Excellent how every paper is pointing it out though, as if a student with honours being demeaned in this manner is so much more shocking than a student without.
Craig Sumi does issues management training for Ontario government employees across the civil service. His seminars are half-decent but clearly he can't manage an issue himself.
My understanding of what's meant by being an "honours student" is not that one is enrolled in an honours PROGRAM, as has been rightly pointed out, most universities assume all students will stay for the 4 year honours program, but that they have honours GRADES. If this is so, then the first poster who mentioned the honours thing might be incorrect in saying the student was not in fact an honours student.
Re #23: There is no such thing, technically, as "Honors" grades at U of T, though. Students who do particularly well (CGPA over the course of a year of 3.50 or higher) are put on the Dean's List (they are "Dean's List Scholars"). Those who graduate with particularly high marks are referred to as graduating "With Distinction" or "With High Distinction," depending on their grades (my source for this is this year's U of T Arts & Science Calendar, though this information should be available online as well). You can be an "Honors" student on The Dean's List each year, and graduate With High Distinction, or you can be an "Honors" student on academic probation.
Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, because The Star could have just meant that Reid gets good grades, and this is pretty nitpicky. Still, the word choice of "Honors" at an institute like U of T where everyone is technically an honors student is problematic.
A number of you have mentioned Aileen's facebook page and some information from it. The actual Aileen Siu is no longer on facebook. The information you are gathering, including her "fortune" and "stripper name" as posted on the site for fun, are from another Aileen, one who is probably receiving a lot of harsh messages on her page. I suggest that everyone backs off from that particular Aileen on facebook because she has nothing to do with the "ghetto dude" email situation.
Guest #25, if that's your profile that you're talking about, you can just say so -- anonymously "suggest[ing] that everyone back off" someone elses Facebook profile is a strange request if you aren't Aileen, or don't know her. (After all, how would you know otherwise that it's not the Aileen who we're talking about here?)
(Please feel free to e-mail me privately at david@torontoist.com rather than responding to this comment in the thread.)
At the risk of sounding like a stalker, but understanding that enough people on this forum have already read through Facebook Aileen Siu's profile, I need to say this:
The girl on Facebook is most likely not the Aileen Siu who is in the news.
If you click on the current profile picture on Facebook and read the dates and times of her two comments on this picture, you'll notice that they were typed in during business hours for the Ontario bureaucracy. And, you will recall that Queen's Park recently banned and blocked its employees from using Facebook on government computers.
Therefore, assuming that Aileen Siu from Queen's Park was at work during the said dates and times, it is unlikely that she is the same girl whose Facebook account the information on "stripper name" and "fortune cookie" were taken from.
I also don't think that the Aileen Siu who comes up as the first link on Facebook is the same one we're talking about here (thanks, as well, to the poster of comment #25 for e-mailing me and explaining). I'm not going to remove any of the comments here about her profile, though I will remove the link to it in the fourth comment.
(Also, it hardly matters now, as it seems that Aileen's profile is no longer publicly available through searches, and to see it you now have to be her friend -- which, in general, is a good setting for Facebook anyway.)
This is supposed to be insightful commentary? This is obviously so bad that I don't think it's really worth detailing the errors.
I don't defend racism, but it may look I am when I point out that this guy is from Malvern.
Malvern is a "ghetto" isn't it?
True, Reid is from Malvern, which you could deem a "ghetto" compared to other places in the city (though that'd still be slang, and still be pretty inappropriate to say in this situation), but he was referred to as a "ghetto dude," with ghetto as an adjective for Reid and not as a noun to describe where he's from. If she had said "dude from the ghetto" it wouldn't be much more appropriate, but at least it'd be easier to pin down what, exactly, Siu meant...
This is true, Siu made her own bed in this case. But Malvern is a ghetto and she certainly would have known that was where he is from.
Since when did "ghetto" become slang for black/Jamaican anyway?
I'm all for discussing race relations, but Siu's exercise of poor judgment does not justify dismissing her as a social pariah.
You have to wonder what sort of satisfaction Evon's going to get out of this now. Seems he can't really win, which is unfortunate. I'm just not sure who made race the issue.
Evon did: ""Ghetto dude? It means I'm black. It's very insulting," Reid told the Star yesterday. "It's still pretty shocking to me.""
You all seem not to get why this is a problem. Let me try to help.
The emailed comment reflects an attitude in which, however stellar his CV, Mr. Reid's racial and class bachground diminishes his accomplishments, something one would naturally expect to negatively affect his propspects for obtaining the job. It is as if she were saying, "Oh, this guy is from the ghetto, so we don't have to take him seriously." And in emailing the comment to colleagues this indicates that, at least in this particular office, this way o0of thinking is an acceptable part of the culture there.
There is little doubt in my mind that the comment provides us with but a glimpse of difficulty blacks face in the job market and, more generally, life in Canada.
Hope that helps.
The level to which some in this thread have stalked someone's Facebook page (who may or may not even be related to the story) is not only hilarious, but also extremely creepy. Good on ya!
Oh no, I get why this is a problem and I don't discount that Siu's behaviour in this case may be part of what informs the class struggle - a struggle that is much harder for black citizens as an aggregate group both because of economic standing and outright racism.
I just disagree with going after Siu as a racist social pariah. There's a big difference between active discriminatory racism and sending an e-mail with an offhand remark that could prove a theory of marginalization based on race/class/geography.
What is the difficulty with recognizing and acknowledging the existence of systemic racism. Systemic racism is not so much a matter of identifying individual racists, it is the operation of cultural assumptions that devalue and denigrate people or groups on the basis of race. Referring to someone as a "ghetto dude" is a rather clear display of such cultural assumptions. Malvern is not a "ghetto" and to refer to is as such also raises questions about underlying cultural assumptions.
This was not just an act of stupidity, clumsiness or poor form. It is a clear example of the barriers that those racialized as black and other people of colour face on a daily basis.
http://www.petitiononline.com/apo/petition.html
Might be of interest to some of you.
If Malvern's diverse and concentrated ethnic population, the less affluent economic standing of many of its residents, gang crime, and/or popular press coverage is not enough not attract the label "ghetto" then I'm afraid I don't know what does. I think most of the public would agree with me.
If the above is a cultural assumption that denigrates those from
Malvern, then there are a number of hooks on which to hang your hat apart from race. But race is made the issue in this case and many here say that it is "clear" that this is systemic racism at work.
If Evon lived in Forest Hill and had the same dreadlocks and Jamaican mother, do you honestly think he would still have been referred to as "ghetto dude"?
If you can't make a strong argument that the answer to this question is "yes", then you're a long way from establishing the clarity of this incident as an example of systemic racism.
But look around in this chain of comments, I haven't seen anyone deny the existence of systemic racism. Going further, I don't even see anyone denying that this incident may be an example of it. We just don't know - but Evon and Linda Deibl seemed to have it figured out pretty quick.
I feel bad for Evon. He can't win now. Any decision on his application is going to be perceived as being influenced by the issue of race. The situation is kind of self-fulfilling in that way.
But I don't agree that it is at all clear that "ghetto dude" = black. I don't even think referring to a place like Malvern as a "ghetto" is racist anymore than it is to say Forest Hill is full of rich white people.
I just disagree with labelling Siu as a racist worthy of the social distinction being directed towards her. To break it down, I don't think the punishment fits the crime in this case.
But here's something we should be able to agree on: Evon turning down jobs coming his way as a result of this controversy takes some man-size cojones and personal integrity. Good on him. I hope he finds peace out of this situation.
I agree with the poster who mentioned the problematic nature of a day-to-day working culture in which such a demeaning statement could be acceptable, as long as it's internal. If that isn't institutional racism, I don't know what is.
Ironically, it is typically not my style to instinctively attribute lack of success in the job market (or society in general) to discrimination. However, I applied for this position a few months ago as well (I am a Black Canadian) and Ms. Siu was on my interview panel. Despite holding a Master's degree in politics, having government work experience, and performing quite well in the interview, I was not called back for the second and more 'objective' phase of the interview process (testing of technical skills). I was later told that candidates needed approval from EACH member of the panel in order to move forward in the interview process.
I'm not writing about my personal experience to suggest that my racial background was the sole reason I was not asked to continue in the competition, nor did I think this was the reason at the time. However, I want to echo Mr. Reid's sentiment that that Ms. Siu is not as 'low level' an employee as has been reported and had a considerable amount of power (although this type of conduct is regardless of rank in an organization).
As someone who has been fundamentally opposed to assuming racial and class-based bias from the outset, this incident has been quite the rude awakening.
Guest #39, you really are missing the point. Stop for a moment and reflect. Look at the factors that you have indicated as the markers of a 'ghetto', "diverse and concentrated ethnic population, the less affluent economic standing of many of its residents, gang crime, and/or popular press coverage". If all these factors existed in an area that does not have a "concentrated and ethically diverse population" would it still be described as a "ghetto"?. Furthermore, you may want to research the term 'gang' before using limited knowledge you gain from your 11:00PM news program to proclaim an entire neighbourhood as a "ghetto". Do you even know the boundaries of Malvern? Have you ever visted? Are you aware that middle class families own their own homes and condominiums in this area? This is not an abandonded part of town with crumbling homes. Whether the public agrees with you are not, cannot change the facts.
Yes their are some lower income parts, yes their is crime, just like in other fully developed parts of the Toronto, special focus can be given to North York.
You then state, "I don't even think referring to a place like Malvern as a "ghetto" is racist anymore than it is to say Forest Hill is full of rich white people." Again, you are missing the point, their is a difference. It's not simply the statement or the reference, it's the impact. "ghetto" is loaded with negative connotations and when you picture the person from the "ghetto" you are picturing a particular stereotypical image. And like your post, the image is often that of a " diverse and ethnic" person along with all the other negative stereotypes you have highlighted above, whether true or not. Whereas, the other part of your statement, does not use a negative term to describe the 'rich white people" in Forest Hill, you refer to them as "rich white people".
And I ahve a question for you, guest #39, lets imagine that someone came up to you and say, I was talking to this 'ghetto dude', exactly what race would you picture in your mind? Please be honest. I think it is honest to say that for many people, the negative stereotype is solidified "ghetto=Black". On this I can gurantee that the public would agree, if they choose to be honest.
One is clearly racist (based on race) and the other is not. My intent is not to be judgemental here, I am just trying to add perspective. I am sure if Ms. Siu had perspective, she may not have sent that email, internal or not. Let Ms. Siu take whats coming to her. Did Evon and her other 'victims' deserve this type of treatment? My sympathies are with them, unfortunately I have no sympathy left over for Ms. Siu.
Guest 41: Note that I didn't pass comment on the broad brush painting Malvern as a ghetto. Whether or not the characterization is "fair" is beside the point, it's that the label is applied. I think we agree that Malvern is though of as a ghetto by those of us who watch the 11 o'clock news don't we? I don't think this is because people are inherently racist.
I wouldn't presume to know what the majority associated with the word "ghetto." It's used in a variety of contexts but this was the first time I've ever read it used as a descriptor of a human being. "Ghetto" to me means lower economic status (not in and of itself a bad thing - but a crude way to refer to anybody) or hailing from an area known to be a ghetto. Malvern would seem to apply in this case.
The kind of vitriol directed at Siu for this e-mail is way out of proportion. It is an important discussion to be had and I'm sure she's learned her lesson. But tracking this person down on Facebook and raking her over the coals for that note is out of line. This is starting to resemble a witchhunt.
Wow! The real issue- at least to me- is how he can be termed as a "ghetto dude". I mean seriously...what is a "ghetto dude"? No matter the argument that is made about what context the term was used in, it has no reflection on his ability to perform this job, period! And, I am sure that it is safe enough to say that this comment was meant with a slurring undertone.
Furthermore, if individuals don't want to accept the backlash about what they say and do, then, well, perhaps those individuals should THINK before they say and do things. And hello to the above posting...Facebook is a free tool that can be and is often used in hiring of candidates (trust me, been there and done that). Thus, looking her up or not, she opened that can of worms through her own doing.
This crap makes me sick and I am appalled to know that in 2007, this kind of debauchery still exists.
For a City employee who is in a position to hire staff (especially a position where there must be unanimous agreement across the board) making a comment like that shows a dreadful lack of judgment. Therefore, she shouldn't be in a position to be hiring staff (and if she's such a "low-level employee," she certainly shouldn't).
Aside from the fact that nobody uses "ghetto" anymore, I think it's pretty safe to say that ghetto=black in this instance, especially since the City is likely encouraging fair opportunity for minorities (including, perhaps, the employment of Aileen Siu).
Even if Siu meant "Malvern," it's still a negative classification that, in this context, overshadows the other qualifications, which is not a classification that other people interviewing for the job might have had. It's these subconscious cues that can make or break a job interview for someone, even if the interviewer believes they are being fair. Whereas his skin colour may play a factor in affirmative employment hiring practices, it is irrelevant to his address, and his address is irrelevant to the job.
Aileen Siu has resigned.
The incident concerns the Government of Ontario (specifically, its Cabinet Office), Marc, not the City of Toronto.
This will be an unpopular point of view.
I don't disagree that Ms. Siu is both callow and foolish. But I do not think that her "assessment" of Mr. Reid was racist at all. Assuming that Mr. Reid presented himself at his interview looking as he did in the newspaper photo, I am not surprised at her intemperate characterization of him as a” ghetto dude". That description arises from his appearance, *not* the colour of his skin.
Bluntly, if you are going to apply for a button down, white collar job in government (or business, for that matter), lose the dreadlocks (and the soul patch). It's that simple. Had the applicant been a white male, with long hair tied in a pony tail and wearing granny glasses, Ms. Siu might have described him as "hippie dude"; or a female applicant with magenta/orange streaked hair and a nose ring as "Goth chick". And the story would not have made the papers.
The underlying issue here is that Mr. Reid probably did not, unfortunately, receive good pointers on job hunting skills. [And still might not, because of the backlash from political correctness that is obscuring the root issue] The principle of “dressing for success" is still vital. One of its tenets is that you dress for the job that you want to have. Had Mr. Reid applied for a more informal summer student job as a lifeguard, waiter, campus research assistant, etc. his dreadlocks would likely not be an issue. But once you apply for a job in a corporate/government environment, you must look and dress the part, if you want to maximize your chances of being hired. Once established in a positon, you may have some leeway to be a bit unconventional, once you have proven yourself. But you don’t get that benefit of the doubt when you first knock at the door.
Mr. Reid was applying for a job as a media analyst in government. The job title, at a minimum, suggests that the job requires a measure of seriousness and good judgment. It does not inspire confidence where the candidate’s choice of hair style/personal grooming creates cognitive dissonance by evoking an association with ganja culture, as dreadlocks do. Again, not a race issue since a "hippie" or "Goth" image on a white person would likewise cause the same type of dissonance.
I'm not saying that any of this is fair. But it is reality. First impressions matter, especially in job interviews, regardless of the colour of your skin.
Arg. There are so many things wrong about that reply that I don't even know where to begin.
"Assuming that Mr. Reid presented himself at his interview looking as he did in the newspaper photo, I am not surprised at her intemperate characterization of him as a” ghetto dude". That description arises from his appearance, *not* the colour of his skin."
Mr. Reid never had an in-person interview (the article reads that "...no-one from the cabinet office where Siu worked had met with Reid face-to-face") so Siu never saw him, which makes your entire argument completely baseless. Nonetheless, the suggestion that Reid's dreadlocks are the problem here -- that his dreadlocks make him "ghetto" and that his dreadlocks prevented him from getting the job (rightly so, in your argument) -- is totally insane.